Vandelay Industries HT

Will try to clean this up but here's where I'm at now...



Link to front wall construction
Riser construction (allegedly a semi-hermoltz bass trap as well)
Soffit

Will do the same for the rest as I go

Hello all, I'll try to keep this as short as possible to sum up where I lost my way and kindly ask for some advice or ideas. I have a small room, about 16x12.7 in an already finished basement. It's in the corner so three sides brick walls but they are insulated and drywalled. Still the echo/slap in there is pretty bad. Anyway, my initial plan was for a soffit and hopefully to get Jeff out there to paint a night sky mural and have the black fluorescent lights glowing the mural. My room already had one soffit in the back wall hiding the ductwork but it was lower than I wanted it all the way around so I framed the soffit a little higher, about 10 inches. It's pretty much done, have the lights in there, insullation, wired up my speakers but I can't put the last couple of pieces of birch on there to seal it up until I figure out where I'm going with the sub woofer. That in turn led me to the many questions around bass traps and sound absorption for all walls for that matter, led me to avs forums, the bacon race and tons of great ideas and now I'm taking a step back .

I love the room that damelon and BIG did, the Bacon Race Theater and it's already similar to what I had in mind. Originally I planned on doing some wainscoting on the walls with a couple of small columns and panels between the columns above the chair rail up to the trim in the soffit. However, with the sound as poor as it is down there combined with as much as I hate staining and as good as those floor to ceiling panels look, I'm thinking of doing something more like that instead both for look and function.


I know Damelon had the work of an acoustics expert in the design of his walls but do you think that the same principal would work for this room? From the Bacon Race, side walls are 1" 3lb dense cotton, front wall 2" 3lb dense cotton, back wall 4" OC703. Actually the back wall I believe had 2 inches of air spaced with 2 inches of OC703. Looks like he went floor to ceiling and I don't hear him complaining about adverse affects. I can look at this mirror thing and reflection points all day and I can pretty much tell you my HT will be in the same state it is next year b/c the more I read the more confused I get.

Also, if you look at the pic of the blue tape screen, that will be a 120 inch Dragonfly screen which nearly takes up the whole wall which I kind of like. Leaves just enough room to either leave the towers there or build some columns on the side to hide them. Since I have a 12 inch riser in the back, I likely need to bring those towers up. As much as I'd like to build the stage, not sure if it's necessary, perhaps I'll just build stands and extend them up as columns for those towers and keep them under fabric similar to BIG's towers and maybe stack the top of them with foam for bass traps? Does that even make sense to have all of that going on in one column? Is it necessary to put insulation on the entire front wall and then build a false wall in front of that for the screen and everything else or am I good just mounting the screen on the wall and maybe going 2 inches deep around it with insulation and possibly those 2 columns? Just tried to do something in sketchup for the first time but it will be a heck of lot quicker for me to just draw and scan it when I get a chance.

My riser is almost the width of the room and about 5 feet deep. The front row will be pretty close about 10 feet from the screen which I'm told should still be ok. I posted the question about turning this into a bass trap but I think I decided against that. Seems the best for me and to be sure it doesn't mess anything up is to insulate it and have a few layers of plywood on top with green glue like they say and I think I'll be good with the riser.

The carpet in there now is getting ripped out, new carpet will go over the floor and riser. I had a plan I was following but with all the great HTs I'm seeing here I pretty much tossed that out. Serenity now. Actually, this is fantastic. Lots of fun and glad someone sent me over to this site.

So i tried to keep it short, that was kind of long. I guess my questions are, any advice for the walls? I'm bailing on the broadband bass trap riser so it sounds like I should just fill it with mineral fiber, where the heck do I get that? HD and Lowes here only have the pink stuff and if that's ok does it have to be unfaced and a certain R value? Otherwise, where do I get the mineral fiber and cotton insulation, I'm sure I can find that somewhere in the Atlanta area right?

Here is the front wall, hope that screen isn't to big.


Here is the soffit, as soon as I figure out the rest I'll finish all sides, sand and poly and crown. Black lights will be behind the crown.


Side view, there's the riser which needs to be stuffed and topped and man the room looks even smaller in pictures. I don't think there is any room for columns on the side walls, maybe just columns in corners for speakers and bass traps?


Thanks in advance!
Edited by ArthurVandelay - 4/17/13 at 7:21pm

Damelon, you mean plan those things before I start? What fun is that? Lol, just kidding of course but yeah, I didn't put as much thought into the sound when I first drew up my design, basically sat with someone at a local HT place talked throw ratio, projector and screen size. I actually did mention it but they pointed out their demo rooms and how they weren't treated for sound but as soon as I wired up my system I thought, yuck. As much as I like you're wall to wall treatments, you might be right, maybe just side panels for mine which is what I had originally intended.

I had a nice space under the stairs next to the room that I opened up and built a closet for the AV rack so that's out of the way at least. The basement is already finished so already have heating and air down there and this room heats and cools very well. Just will need to do something to vent where the AV rack is.

I've always imagined 2 rows of seats in the room but this is not necessary if it helps builds a better room. I really need 4 seats though for the family to all be down there at once. Not sure if I can fit a row of 4 or stagger 2 and 2 somehow. The only thing I'm really locked in on that I don't want to do again i'd say is the soffit framing. I like that and it took a while but anything with the walls I'm game for and the riser, I can reuse that wood so I can still tweak that or do whatever with it. We actually just got some new living room furniture which shifted my favorite couch (there are 2 of them) down to the basement so I was planning on temporarily using those and purchasing some nice theater seats next year. Certainly don't have to put both of them in there, can just do the one for now.

I love the idea of a broadband bass trap for the riser and if I could find a good plan for one I'd absolutely reconstruct it for that purpose. I see a bunch of bass trap riser talk in the forums but mostly debates and talk of possibly doing more harm than good as far as I can tell.

I appreciate the input guys, I'm taking a break on the room and putting pen to paper again and re-designing this guy to pick it up again and do it a little better than I had originally scripted it out. Appreciate anyone else's opinions as well.

Thanks!

So what about the idea of wedges stacked for bass traps but on top of the speakers in kind of a wedged column? So maybe a 6 inch stand, filled with sand, frame out a case for the tower to go on top of the stand hidden by fabric and then another frame on top of that filled with stacked wedges to the top for a bass trap? Don't mock, for all I know this will take all the acoustics in the room, cancel them all out so the room is mute. Then there would just be a thin panel on top of the screen and a little bigger one below the screen?

No chairs yet, I have my eye on some but my comfy couches that my wife replaced in the living room will be place holders. That said, I'm planning it out for HT seats, the couches are temporary and I have a feeling I'll want to get those chairs sooner than later. If I go one row, could see doing the |O|OO|O| approach if I can find some to fit nicely. Still would love two rows of 3 seats if possible.

On the thought of front columns, just read the Arthouse/Grindhouse thread and wow that space is similar to mine. Plus rsprance kind of did what I was thinking with those columns up front and then covered them with fabric panels. Different sections with speakers and stuffed on top with wedges (i think). Some pics show insulattion, this one I can't tell though.



Time to learn sketchup and do some renderings.
Edited by ArthurVandelay - 12/5/12 at 2:28pm

Haven't posted in a while b/c I reached a point of confusion with all the great advice I got through the site and in PMs. Really though, took a break once I had a bad experience with a company that sells acoustical wall materials and decided to hold off on that and just finish up what I knew how to do. For anyone that advised me that stumbles back on this thread, my towers sound really good in this room so I can't justify spending on anything like in-walls to put in columns and I think i'm ok with them out in the open so I didn't do the false wall. The soffit is done, doesn't show up well in this pic but ceiling is flat black waiting on a night sky mural and I have black florescent lighting around it in the tray. The riser plan I followed was for what they told me was a semi-hemholtz bass trap and maybe it's all mental but drilling the gazillion holes in the top it actually made a difference. Heard some good reasons NOT to do this and just go with 1 row but I went to a few smaller HTs that had 2 rows and I didn't see it as an issue. I have no doubt the kids will love it, in fact I'll probably have to tell them to back up as they'll likely throw beanbags right on top of the screen. Carpet is down and I'm wanting to order the materials for the walls. Looking at fabricmate's site, is the ReCore Tackable Core a suitable material to go under the fabric (GOM - Anchorage)? Still waiting to hear back from the guy I spoke to there but he told me the name of a material which I don't see on the site. All I see is ReCore and Linacoustic but thought he said they came in panels which appears to be ReCore as Linacoustic comes in rolls. Any feedback on the insulation is greatly appreciated, I'm going to keep it simple though, most likely either do all walls in 1/2 inch like they recommended or I think I might do 1 inch on front and back with 1/2 inch on the sides. Actually with the way it is now, the room already sounds better so I'm not as worried. Gotta get moving though, have the Walking Dead midseason premier as the date I had in mind to finish this :-).

Thanks Brad. Ok, found a local supplier to purchase some OC703 and decided to build my own frames ala GPowers and Brad (and many others) so I just saved a bunch of money and I think I'm going to like it more this way. Home Depot guy, you rocked for cutting those 1.5 inch strips. Saved on shipping the stuff plus it was much cheaper, good stuff. Mix of 1" and 2" (for front and back).

So, with said saved $, rethinking my front wall before doing the panels. Here's my wall, assembled the frame of my screen (120" dragonfly) which will mount to the wall. If I kept those towers, they're kind of already shaped for corners, I think I can build out some angled column covered in the same fabric as the front wall like many of you have done (in bigger spaces like spaceman) and stack wedges for bass traps above the speakers. That leaves me less space on the front to cover with treated panels of 703 but wondering if that's still ok. I have 2" for the front and back and 1" for the sides which I'll do up to ear level or so and having batting above that on the sides. If the towers really should not go in there, if I would notice and be let down with the sound quality, maybe it's time to buy some in-walls anyway. Think I can accomplish what I'm after with some decent in-walls? The sub I'm afraid will not go away, maybe I'll hang the center but let me know please if any thoughts as I step back and ponder this one.


Otherwise, spent a lot of time on that darn doorway so now there's a solid door back there. Wasn't going to but figured I'd regret it so at first I got a 32 inch b/c it fit pre-hung in the 37 inch opening but then got nervous about moving chairs in and out so brought it back and just built some jambs myself to fit a 36 inch door in there. As you see, not much room for bass traps in the back corners either though I did follow a plan to make the riser a base trap.


Also have the wiring complete with some black lights but black lights around here are non existent for some reason so this pic just shows one lit up. Will have those all the way around, this pic looks really way sharper than it does in real life, it's more of a diffuse glow.



So any input on that front wall situation is greatly appreciated. I'm looking at some Definitive 8040s (think that's what they were) or some in walls for rear and side. Those were a little pricy than what i expected for surround speakers so still not sure on those yet but absolutely time to move the bookshelves out of there, too hard to even get them to angle to the seats.

Done bothering people, gotta make some decisions for myself over here.

Figure half bass trap is better than no bass traps. Almost done with the front frame, bass traps up high, towers down low. So far so good, sounds really good down there. Will have 2 inch panel above the screen, 2 inch 703 below the screen on the wall, the rest will cover with probably FR701 covered panels.



That shadow kind of looks cool on the side, it's not the perfect place for it though.

Edited by ArthurVandelay - 1/28/13 at 11:50am

delete this
Edited by ArthurVandelay - 4/17/13 at 6:37pm

Front Wall ...

Before: Those speaker wires and cables are for the way the previous owner had a room setup. I sent them back through the wall and through the soffit into a closet I created under the steps to the basement in an adjacent area.


2x2 frames for Columns to hide speakers and corner bass traps...


Jumping ahead alot but I basically did a ton of configurations like this playing with 2x2 frames. Before I put any front panels on I thought I'd have something under the screen to hide the sub but bailed on the bottom part, hated it. So whenever I get to building the big sub it will just be out and about down there, for now the sub I have will stay out as well. Also did not have the columns at an angle like originally started in this pick, I moved the 2x2s on the side walls in so they were even with the others and square. Reading up seemed to say something is better than nothing for bass traps so I stacked 2" wedges of OC703 for bass traps above the towers. Behind and to the side of the towers just fit some 703 along the walls.


For front panels, used finger joined pine. Did multiple layers of the 1.5 inch strips of plywood and MDF for the other panels and side panels but for the columns, the fjp worked really good and was solid.


Brad's idea (and others I'm sure) to use speaker grills worked good. Clamped the finished panels on the 2x2s first then drilled 1/8 inch holes, took them down and did my 7/16 holes in the panels and 9/16 holes in the frames which were needed for the fasteners.


They popped on perfectly and here's before fabric...


Didn't pull the trigger on an air compressed staple gun, just used an electric. It did the job for the FR701 but worried about my sides where I'll be using anchorage...


Was so worried about light coming through the FR701 but once you block out all the light (like I was told but didn't believe until I saw it), you can't see diddly underneath with all 4 panels on.



Using 2" OC703 on the front so had to extend the outlets. Did some plywood/mdf boxes around it and used extension box from HD and pulled outlets through.



The front panels for above and under the screen were 2 inches deep so used 1/2 inch furring and 3 layers of lap joined plywood and mdf for the other 1.5 inches. Liquid nails and some brads b/c I have no patience for the clamps and waiting for the glue to dry. Wrapped in in fabric, stuffed with 2" 703 which sticks out a bit from the back but fits to the wall thanks to the furrings. Also noticed I didn't have to paint these black. I had to paint the white FJP but this darker MDF that was on the outer layer, couldn't tell either way so I only painted one or two I think.




Popped on with speaker grill fasteners just like the column panels


Repeat with much smaller panels on top. I ended up building a shelf and wrapping in in the FR701 for the center channel. Just liked it up there better than on the ground and still sounds good.


... and in the end I'm glad I left out covering the sub with something under the screen. Could have probably pulled off a small stage there like many people did but with the smaller size of my room, wanted to keep it as clean as possible and a stage deep enough to fit the sub I want to make would have stuck out to far. Pleased with it as is. Left my 2x2 frames friction fitted until I fit the 120 inch dragonfly screen in and once that was nice and snug, took the panels back off secured the frames to the wall.

Hard to get a pic with the black lights on and the rest of the lights off. It glows nicer than it looks...

Edited by ArthurVandelay - 4/17/13 at 6:36pm

Riser:

Extremely confused on whether or not to make this a bass trap. Basically as I was almost finished I was talked into buying plans for a "semi Hermholtz bass trap / riser" while talking to someone about wall treatments. I was worried about the acoustics in the room so I said why not and really the only thing it told me to do was drill a gazillion holes in the top and that was pretty disappointed. So I'm sure someone out there can tell me whether or not it actually is a semi-hermholtz but I'd probably rather not know, took too long to drill the holes

started with a bunch of heavy 2x12s. Think they're in 12 inch sections but they go right to the ground. Saw some did 10 inch cross sections and drilled holes, more bass trap stuff to confuse me. So I left the carpet padding down and built the riser on top.





stuffed with pink fluffy stuff


Very cool thing I think Big or someone showed on drawing the line so you can trim off to overhang however far you're looking to overhang...


On top goes one sheet of wood, then black roofing felt and another sheet.



and a small section of the gazillion holes that are on top now


routed the edges and thank goodness this will have carpet over top


and it's the biggest shelf for junk I ever built in my life!


cleaned off with the carpet. I really think it did work, the bass sounded better in there even before I started treating corners and walls but that could just be me wanting to believe it changed something. Very strong and solid though, no noise while walking on it.

Soffit:
Went for a soffit with dark wood stain and some recessed lighting. The ceiling will be black and had talks with Night Sky Murals Jeff about painting the star mural on the ceiling which hopefully happens when he's in my area. The tray hides black fluorescent lighting to glow the soffit and hopefully charge his mural if he comes into the ATL. Did this so long ago, almost forgot what I did, glad I took pics. Took my time and did a few coats of stain before I hung the panels and was planning on finishing it off with some poly but I completely forgot hung and cut the holes for the lights which was a pain. So when left with the options of taking them back down or doing some poly and sanding over my head I talked myself into leaving it as is for the good of avoiding reflections from the poly. Hey, it's actually probably a valid point. Anyway, once the wood filler was sanded and stained covering up the screws, it looks good to me as is.

Front wall side goes up to the ceiling but back wall already has a soffit with some duct work.












Back wall has a small area where the back soffit is deeper. It's just a few inches but I didn't want the entire soffit that deep and I didn't want to rip the old soffit apart so settled with this approach.



3 lights on each side and 2 in the front. The ones in the front were probably a mistake b/c with the projector on, I'd have to take those lights out otherwise it messes up the picture. The projector is bright enough that I can watch with lights dim up front or the big light on in the center of the ceiling (which probably will be replaced) but those front two shining right down on the screen, grrrrr.


Back wall has slightly smaller section to make it work against the existing soffit. No lights back there.

Edited by ArthurVandelay - 4/17/13 at 7:33pm