or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Dual GJALLARHORNs!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dual GJALLARHORNs! - Page 11

post #301 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

+1

24" × 45" × 45" is just too deep for me ATM. I could lay a few of them down under my screen, but I'd almost be able to prop my feet up on them when I reclined…lol

I still can't get over the simple math that MK pointed out… One GH has roughly the same output as 4 sealed LMS-U's from 16-40Hz. Was that it? Can't find the quote at this very moment...

Correct. Here's a chart I put together based in Ricci's outdoor measurements of each:

post #302 of 758
Technically the 4x sealed system is superior but don't forget that you need 4x the drivers and 4x the amp power. $$$$...Also four 22" cubes ends up being 22x44x44" which is starting to get close to the same total volume also. The smaller cubes still provide superior placement options though.
post #303 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Technically the 4x sealed system is superior but don't forget that you need 4x the drivers and 4x the amp power. $$$$...Also four 22" cubes ends up being 22x44x44" which is starting to get close to the same total volume also. The smaller cubes still provide superior placement options though.

Ricci: How are the updated plans coming?
post #304 of 758
I would like to see the GH with a LMSR 5400.
Edited by kutlow - 3/8/13 at 10:59pm
post #305 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I would like to see the GH with a LMSR 5400.
Uhm, are there any GH's out there that DON'T use a 5400??

Unless you're talking about the 15in LMS-R??
Edited by edoggrc51 - 3/9/13 at 12:45am
post #306 of 758
Oh ok my fault. I didnt know it used this beast.
post #307 of 758
lmsr dts vs GH.docx 18k .docx file


I compared 2 of these GH to my 3 soon to be LMSR DTS-10 and it looks like I should be satisfied when Im done with my upgrade. I thought about doing 2 of these GH but it was easier for me to do the driver swap verses trying to go througg all the work involved with selling and building. Is there anything I am missing?
post #308 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Oh ok my fault. I didnt know it used this beast.

Yeah, the LMS ultra is what Ricci designed it for. although you can use the UXL-18 and save some money and still get supposedly 95% of the performance it of it.
post #309 of 758
I would love to see Ricci build a dual LMSR 15 GH
post #310 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

Ricci: How are the updated plans coming?

Done.
Reason it took so long besides being just busy, was because the changes stemmed from me seeing how much further I could push the original design early last year. The result of that is something I am going to get built to replace my current GH's eventually. It made sense to apply some of the changes back to the original plans and also resulted in looking at a lot of different options along the way. There are now a few different varieties of GH plans using multiple smaller drivers. I did find 2 driver combos that should work well and should get the driver cost down near $400. I can't seem to find anything cheaper that looks worth trying.
post #311 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Done.
Reason it took so long besides being just busy, was because the changes stemmed from me seeing how much further I could push the original design early last year. The result of that is something I am going to get built to replace my current GH's eventually. It made sense to apply some of the changes back to the original plans and also resulted in looking at a lot of different options along the way. There are now a few different varieties of GH plans using multiple smaller drivers. I did find 2 driver combos that should work well and should get the driver cost down near $400. I can't seem to find anything cheaper that looks worth trying.

Awesome. Assume the UXL-18 would still be a better option over the 2 driver combo? Thanks Ricci!
post #312 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

Awesome. Assume the UXL-18 would still be a better option over the 2 driver combo? Thanks Ricci!

Well one is 3 12" drivers (Alpine Type R's)
The other is 2 Alpine Type R 15's

The cheaper drivers are in multiples and the extra voice coils and extra total SD keep the power and excursion of each driver down a little bit. Max excursion related output should be similar and sensitivity isn't too much different either since this ceiling is largely set by the cab. The UXL -18 doesn't get into excursion trouble until around 105 volts input (3,000w) in the sims which should be somewhat higher in the real world due to losses and compression. That amount of power into these cabs is going to be serious business in a home, so unless you plan to really crank the snot out of it with many thousands of watts the UXL is probably a little better choice due to a slightly smoother response shape. Truthfully it should be pretty close so flip a coin.

Now if you want to completely throw the budget out the window there are a lot of interesting alternative driver choices.
post #313 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Well one is 3 12" drivers (Alpine Type R's)
The other is 2 Alpine Type R 15's

The cheaper drivers are in multiples and the extra voice coils and extra total SD keep the power and excursion of each driver down a little bit. Max excursion related output should be similar and sensitivity isn't too much different either since this ceiling is largely set by the cab. The UXL -18 doesn't get into excursion trouble until around 105 volts input (3,000w) in the sims which should be somewhat higher in the real world due to losses and compression. That amount of power into these cabs is going to be serious business in a home, so unless you plan to really crank the snot out of it with many thousands of watts the UXL is probably a little better choice due to a slightly smoother response shape. Truthfully it should be pretty close so flip a coin.

Now if you want to completely throw the budget out the window there are a lot of interesting alternative driver choices.

Things are always interesting with no budget. Think I'll stick with the UXL's. I only have an inuke6000 for power. Looking forward to getting started smile.gif You going to make a new thread with the new designs?
post #314 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

Things are always interesting with no budget. Think I'll stick with the UXL's. I only have an inuke6000 for power. Looking forward to getting started smile.gif You going to make a new thread with the new designs?

True...That should be a good combo.
post #315 of 758
Thread Starter 


post #316 of 758
Now you are getting there!!cool.gif
post #317 of 758
SWEET! Now you just need some 80's "getting it done" music!
post #318 of 758
Looking good luke!
post #319 of 758
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately all this is the easy part. All the bracing is going to take awhile, and most of it's tight places where I won't be able to use any screws.

The question right now is what glue to use for the bracing. The spaces are way too small to fit a caulking gun, and the glue needs to expand to make sure there are no gaps.

PL Premium expands, but how to get it into those small spaces? Also, I've never used it, so how "runny" is it?

Gorilla glue can be bought in small bottles, ,and also expands, but it's really runny and can make quite the mess. However, when it dries, it's very strong. This is the glue I'm using to secure the threaded inserts used to mount the driver.

Any thoughts?
post #320 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

Unfortunately all this is the easy part. All the bracing is going to take awhile, and most of it's tight places where I won't be able to use any screws.

The question right now is what glue to use for the bracing. The spaces are way too small to fit a caulking gun, and the glue needs to expand to make sure there are no gaps.

PL Premium expands, but how to get it into those small spaces? Also, I've never used it, so how "runny" is it?

Gorilla glue can be bought in small bottles, ,and also expands, but it's really runny and can make quite the mess. However, when it dries, it's very strong. This is the glue I'm using to secure the threaded inserts used to mount the driver.

Any thoughts?

When I built my THT's:

1) Applied lots of PL Premium to edges of the brace
2) Slide them in at a slight angle so the glue didn't rub off
3) Once they were close twisted so the glued edges came into contact with the panels
4) Slide in the extra inch until they were really tight



Someone probably has a better way but that's how I've done it without issue.
post #321 of 758
PL premium used to make a wood glue in 8oz bottles. It also expands, but runny sorta like gorilla but not as bad. Although consistency it's more like gel glue than gorilla which to me is like water. Assembled the dts kits with pl wood glue and stainless marine deck screws. If use to much glue it will have a small amount of white yellow foam filling in the corners and run. I never cleaned it up on areas with runs. Took about 4 small bottles to do one dts cab, but using this glue I could build the entire cab in about 1hr having drivers dropped in and fired up online by that afternoon.

Looks like loctite sold off the wood glue to Lepage.
http://lepageproducts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=137

I can't find it local anymore at lowes. On the last cabinet I built I bought the glue online and ordered a case of 25 bottles. Now I don't have enough coffee to search.
post #322 of 758
I was thinking when watching your assembly that you may have been better served gluing "as you go" vs trying to reach down in those crevices.
post #323 of 758
I use the twist method mentioned autox320. I also have been building the bracing as I go in the beginning. Then as I go I dry fit the panels with the pocket screws then add bracing first then glue in panel. So far so good on a Micro.
post #324 of 758
why didnt you put glue on the panels before you put it on with the screws?
post #325 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I was thinking when watching your assembly that you may have been better served gluing "as you go" vs trying to reach down in those crevices.

I put glue down first on every joint before putting screws in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

I use the twist method mentioned autox320. I also have been building the bracing as I go in the beginning. Then as I go I dry fit the panels with the pocket screws then add bracing first then glue in panel. So far so good on a Micro.

That's definitely ideal, but one of the downsides of combining a Kreg screw to a joint that has thick glue on it is that as you tighten the screw the joint will "walk" slightly towards the direction the screw is going. Because of that slight movement on just about every joint, pretty much every piece of cross-bracing will have very slight dimension changes to make sure it's a snug fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

why didnt you put glue on the panels before you put it on with the screws?

Oh I did. My question above was about what glue to use for the cross-bracing.



I think dsl1's idea above is the way to do it.

Thanks!
post #326 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Well one is 3 12" drivers (Alpine Type R's)
The other is 2 Alpine Type R 15's

The cheaper drivers are in multiples and the extra voice coils and extra total SD keep the power and excursion of each driver down a little bit. Max excursion related output should be similar and sensitivity isn't too much different either since this ceiling is largely set by the cab. The UXL -18 doesn't get into excursion trouble until around 105 volts input (3,000w) in the sims which should be somewhat higher in the real world due to losses and compression. That amount of power into these cabs is going to be serious business in a home, so unless you plan to really crank the snot out of it with many thousands of watts the UXL is probably a little better choice due to a slightly smoother response shape. Truthfully it should be pretty close so flip a coin.

Can't wait to see the plans for these. I like the idea of a dual 15" version with cheap drivers. Way cool!cool.gif
post #327 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Can't wait to see the plans for these. I like the idea of a dual 15" version with cheap drivers. Way cool!cool.gif

why not dual 15 with LMSR 15 OR THE AXIS 15? If your trying to get the best sub so you can call it quits why not put quality drivers in and be done>?
post #328 of 758
There is the TC Ultra already. I like the multiple twelve option but none of these options are cheaper for me. Dual 15's would be just less than the Ultra and then the UXL is cheaper than that. Either way it is interesting to have other combos.

Either way great progress so far Luke.
post #329 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

why not dual 15 with LMSR 15 OR THE AXIS 15? If your trying to get the best sub so you can call it quits why not put quality drivers in and be done>?

I would, but there are many that are on a budget. A dual Alpine 15 design would be tough to beat on a value basis.
You are talking like $260 for a pair Plus you can actually get the Alpine.
post #330 of 758
Ok...to be clear again you can't just throw any drivers in a horn. The Axis and LMSR 15's do not work well. Also the 15" Alpine model that does is NOT the SWS model it is the higher end SWR type R 15's which are about $200 each from many places online and you need 2 in each horn.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Dual GJALLARHORNs!