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Dual GJALLARHORNs! - Page 16

post #451 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post

You do know the sealed fan boy club (basically the entire AVS DIY section) is going to tear you to shreds, right? biggrin.gif

The measurements on data bass seem to indicate that from 15-30Hz its actually pretty evenly matched vs quad LMS.

Could you elaborate on how it outperforms it?

I'm not opposing your opinion by the way, just curious on why you think its better.

Because you can stick your face into the mouth and feel the force of 10,000 typhoons.

Or maybe he just likes the sound of tapped horns compared to sealed boxes?

The fact that one driver can keep up with the output of four (with 1/4th the power as well) is insane!
post #452 of 758
Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Luke - You got us talking last weekend about your build. It's only a matter of time before more of us step up and build some of these as well. biggrin.gif
post #453 of 758
When you say down low, you don't mean under 15hz? If under 15hz then not below 10hz for sure.
post #454 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post

You do know the sealed fan boy club (basically the entire AVS DIY section) is going to tear you to shreds, right? biggrin.gif

The measurements on data bass seem to indicate that from 15-30Hz its actually pretty evenly matched vs quad LMS.

Could you elaborate on how it outperforms it?

I'm not opposing your opinion by the way, just curious on why you think its better.

I think the numbers tell a different story:

A single 5400 at max output is 108db at 20hz. Distortion at that point is about 12%



A single GH at max is 122db at 20hz, and distortion at that point is under 5%:



So, quad 5400's will hit 120db at 20hz, but they are still all maxed, meaning they're all at about 12% distortion. If this were Notnyt's system where 8 5400's are just cruising at 120db at 20hz, then distortion will obviously be a lot less than 12%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

When you say down low, you don't mean under 15hz? If under 15hz then not below 10hz for sure.

Down low I mean 12-25hz. 10hz and under, in my room, has no sound or tactile feeling whatsoever.
post #455 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

Because you can stick your face into the mouth and feel the force of 10,000 typhoons.

Or maybe he just likes the sound of tapped horns compared to sealed boxes?

The fact that one driver can keep up with the output of four (with 1/4th the power as well) is insane!

I have the opportunity to run the GH side by side with dual sealed 5400s. In my completely subjective opinion, the tapped horn is "cleaner" from 15-30hz.
post #456 of 758
One frequency does not account for all the content, I was talking more wide band from 15-30Hz. If you look at the numbers you will see it is relatively even, of course it can never be exact.

I was wondering more about your subjective thoughts, the data bass numbers I have already looked at.

Could you also list your HPF/LPF?
post #457 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

When you say down low, you don't mean under 15hz? If under 15hz then not below 10hz for sure.

For a reference you can compare to your DTS-10

Ricci's testing #'s

10hz
Ghorn: 90.2dB
DTS-10: 90.9dB
Difference: -0.7dB

12.5hz
Ghorn: 105.2dB
DTS-10: 102.1dB
Difference: 3.1dB

16hz
Ghorn: 118.3dB
DTS-10: 114.5dB
Difference: 3.8dB

Ghorn runs away after that

25hz
Ghorn: 125.9dB
DTS-10: 117.7dB
Difference: 8.2dB

So should be better then your DTS-10 setup for everything above 10hz in terms of SPL. Obviously it's a nicer driver and the difference would be noticeable in other areas beyond spl.
post #458 of 758
I don't have the dual DTS10s anymore. I have sealed.
post #459 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Luke - You got us talking last weekend about your build. It's only a matter of time before more of us step up and build some of these as well. biggrin.gif

If I can build these things than anyone can. Just takes time.

However, several on this board have had good success in finding a cabinet maker to build them, and I was shocked how cheap they build them for as well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post

One frequency does not account for all the content, I was talking more wide band from 15-30Hz. If you look at the numbers you will see it is relatively even, of course it can never be exact.

I was wondering more about your subjective thoughts, the data bass numbers I have already looked at.

Could you also list your HPF/LPF?

I hear ya.

HPF: 14hz BW 18db/oct
LPF: 60hz on my preamp. Probably a 24db/oct LR

In my opinion, I prefer the GH from 12-35hz over the sealed 5400's.
post #460 of 758
Well, I would pick TH over a sealed as well in the TH's wheelhouse. To me the reason for sealed is going full bandwidth. If one feels like it does not add to anything then there is no advantage to sealed IMHO. Well, except for ease of build and smoother out of the box response.
post #461 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, I would pick TH over a sealed as well in the TH's wheelhouse. To me the reason for sealed is going full bandwidth. If one feels like it does not add to anything then there is no advantage to sealed IMHO. Well, except for ease of build and smoother out of the box response.

If 5-10hz added something to the experience I'd have 8+ sealed 5400's by now. Whatever it is about my room, there's nothing below 11-12hz, even at 110db. It has to be my concrete floor and walls.
post #462 of 758
Concrete helps the low end!
post #463 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Concrete helps the low end!

I wish my room did. From 14 to 13hz, my room takes a 12db bite out of the response...

Bass traps in all four corners helped other frequencies nicely, but did nothing for 10-13hz.
post #464 of 758
Does it keep falling below? Is it electronics rolloff? Could it be the soundcard?
post #465 of 758
Good to hear your impressions Luke! I have a tapped horn with a B&C 15 PS100, but it just doesn't have the output < 25hz in a bigger space. Worked great in the little room it was built for though.
post #466 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Does it keep falling below? Is it electronics rolloff? Could it be the soundcard?

My mic is a calibrated EMM-6 from Cross spectrum, and through REW I generated a calibration file for the sound card (with was surprising flat even down past 10hz).

Even though SPL meters aren't really reliable that low, the SPL meter shows the exact same drop in response below 14hz.
post #467 of 758
Luke, between the quad sealed and the TH which do you think was more dynamic at similar SPLs with neither being pushed hard?
post #468 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post

Luke, between the quad sealed and the TH which do you think was more dynamic at similar SPLs with neither being pushed hard?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "dynamic"?
post #469 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, I would pick TH over a sealed as well in the TH's wheelhouse. To me the reason for sealed is going full bandwidth. If one feels like it does not add to anything then there is no advantage to sealed IMHO. Well, except for ease of build and smoother out of the box response.

MK,

Well said. They are different tools for different purposes. As for the lack of ULF Luke experiences, being on a slab can be a disadvantage for ULF tactile feel. Crowsons may be a good option to augment the horns, or a riser with carefully chosen resonances could change that. Some ppl are not ready for the very low distortion a horn loaded sub will generate, as it will seem 'quieter' without the harmonics present.....cannot escape ELC curves.

JSS
post #470 of 758
Yeah, If I did not care for full bandwidth(I still want to do a head to head comparison in my room between TH and sealed) I would go for TH. Do I feel a difference? I don't know for sure but my DTS10's went down to 8hz anyways in my room. Just knowing that I can reproduce everything on the disc gives me warm fuzzies either way. I have PM'd back and forth with lilmike to see if my drivers can be TH'd but I have not got around to shipping a couple.
post #471 of 758
Like have you fired both up or just one?
post #472 of 758
Thread Starter 
Just one.
post #473 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yeah, If I did not care for full bandwidth(I still want to do a head to head comparison in my room between TH and sealed) I would go for TH. Do I feel a difference? I don't know for sure but my DTS10's went down to 8hz anyways in my room. Just knowing that I can reproduce everything on the disc gives me warm fuzzies either way. I have PM'd back and forth with lilmike to see if my drivers can be TH'd but I have not got around to shipping a couple.

lol, it's not that I don't care about full bandwidth, it's that I don't care about frequencies that I both can't hear or feel.
post #474 of 758
I prefer the sound of a horn then a sealed or ported cabinet. I just dont have the room for horned subs.rolleyes.gif
post #475 of 758
Luke: Did you use the rubber gasket or remove and use some gasket tape? I'd think gasket tape would be better and what I was planning on doing.
Edited by dsl1 - 4/17/13 at 12:33pm
post #476 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

Luke: Did you use the rubber gasket or remove and use some gasket tape? I'd think gasket tape would be better and what I was planning on doing.

I used the rubber gasket. I didn't tighten it down super tight since I still hadn't sanded or painted and I'd be pulling it right back out in a few days, and it still doesn't seem to be leaking any air.

If you use gasket tape, beware of "closed cell rubber" gasket tape. For whatever reason, over time it turns into this nasty brown super sticky liquid type stuff. Use foam gasket tape if you go that route!
post #477 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

I used the rubber gasket. I didn't tighten it down super tight since I still hadn't sanded or painted and I'd be pulling it right back out in a few days, and it still doesn't seem to be leaking any air.

If you use gasket tape, beware of "closed cell rubber" gasket tape. For whatever reason, over time it turns into this nasty brown super sticky liquid type stuff. Use foam gasket tape if you go that route!

I have a few spools of this stuff: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=260-542

I've seen several other threads where people say the rubber gasket does leak. I'll try both.
post #478 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

I have a few spools of this stuff: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=260-542

I've seen several other threads where people say the rubber gasket does leak. I'll try both.

That stuff should be fine since it's foam. Avoid the rubber stuff!
post #479 of 758
Thread Starter 
Some interesting info on these cabinets. Here's the amount of screws used in EACH cabinet:

Kreg Screws:

1.25": 47 (where 3/4" plywood meets 3/4" plywood)
1": 40 (1/2" to 3/4")
.75": 65 (1/2" to 1/2")


2" deck screws: 11

8-32 threaded inserts for hatch: 16

1/4" threaded inserts for driver: 8

#6 3/4" screws for Speakon terminal: 2

All in all that's 189 screws for each cabinet, plus 24 threaded inserts, plus a couple tubes of PL premium and PL400...
post #480 of 758
lukeamdman,
Just got up to speed on this build, very, very nice. Congrats for sure. I can stare at those cut-away/cross section images of the cabinet for hours, great job.
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