Speaker Settings: DefTech 8060ST

Nice speakers. I have been using the older Def-Tech 2002TL's. The 2002TL's have several hook up methods. After trying all, I ended up with the most simple hook up configuration...just the speaker wire connection, mostly because if there is a sonic difference, I can't hear it, and hooking up this way uses the least amount of wires, which are difficult to hide.

You have two options with your 8060's:

1. LFE "out" of your receiver/processor to a "Y" connector, to "in" LFE on the rear of both of the 8060's.
You also need to run the regular speaker wire connection.
On the receiver/processor set the menu for the two front speakers to "Large" and Sub-woofer to "Yes".

2. Regular speaker wire hook up using no LFE cables.On the receiver/processor set the two front speakers to "Large" and sub-woofer to "No".

The rest of the speakers...I would set to small, redirecting the ultra low bass to the sub-woofers. FWIW, the "woofers" in the 8060"s are not true sub-woofers.

Yes but you tell the receiver what crossover number to use. Set to 80HZ, all bass below 80 is redirected to the subs.

This is the only time I've seen this written. Please explain. Definitive Technology seems to insist that the woofer configuration in these speakers are powered subwoofers, stating basically that they are built in SuperCubes.

I didn't see any indication that the 8060 has a built in Super-cube. The higher dollar Super-cubes do have control settings similar to other "true sub woofer's"...volume, high pass filter adjustment, low pass filter adjustment, phase setting, high pass delay, room compensation, sub woofer tune, parametric equalizer. The 8060 has only a volume knob doesn't it. It is, what it is...

It's not a SuperCube per se, I know that. Defenitive Technology's words are that the subwoofers in the 8060's have SuperCube technology. Their words.

I'm not arguing that these speakers have built in SuperCube subs. I was asking why you referred to the 8060's not having "true subwoofers". In your statement, that is the only time I can find that someone referred to the 8060's as not having "ture subwoofers".

I want to know what you know, because I have a pair of 8060's on backorder and can still change my mind on the purchase. I cannot afford a sub with this purchase. I'm unbiased and want to make the best purchase decision.

...and I am not cutting down the quality of the speaker, I own a complete Def-Tech speaker package...(Two 2002TL towers with built in powered woofers, CLR 2500 center also with a powered woofer, and two BPX's for surrounds). I am also using a Velodine powered sub-woofer, and I have the tower's set to "small" redirecting bass to the Velodine at 80HZ.

I used the term "true Sub-woofer" referring to all of the adjustments on board of that type of sub-woofer. The 8060's only have a gain/volume control for settings, don't they? I don't know what you had prior to purchasing the Def-Tech, but my guess is that your new speakers will be very impressive. I've certainly enjoyed mine.

The amps and driver/pr surface area is about the same. Because they are within the towers, phase/crossover are pre-set for seamless integration, with only gain controls available to the user.

DT has a history of rather wild exaggerations as to their speakers bass extension, but unless you're directly comparing to something better they will probably make you very happy.

I find DT super tower bass to be less on the tight/dry/defined, more on the ripe/phat side of the resolution spectrum, but that is only in direct comparison to slightly better setups. My impressions are likely due to placement restrictions more than anything. That is one of the limits of built-in powered "sub"woofs: ideal speaker locations may not be the best locations for subs, but they're built in so you're stuck with wherever the mains are. The results can be lumpier in-room response than could otherwise be achieved. Adding a separate sub as Popo9 has done effectively remedies this problem.

The meat of the music is above 80 hz anyway. If you have heard the DT's and like them, then buy with confidence and don't look back.

Thanks for the excellent replies!

I'm gonna hold off on the 8060's for now. The 5 speaker package deal nearly max's out my budget and I need a new avr. My 13 year old Yamaha receiver, which has served me more then well over the years, has bit the dust. I listen to music mostly, but love the epic home theater experience. So I feel a separate subwoofer would be ideal.

The 8060ST is a very interesting speaker. I don't particularly like it because it seems to me to be less than what it is sold as, and less than what people who buy it seem to perceive it to be.

The two 4 1/2 speakers are really pretty wimpy as bass drivers, and no way can they be candidates for "large" settings:

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 66
20 78
30 85
40 90
50 94
60 97
70 100
80 102
90 104
100 106
110 108
120 109
130 110
140 112
150 113
160 114
170 115

The traditional 80 Hz setting is an absolute and total low water mark for a average In a high quality system, the recommended crossover setting would be more like 120-130 Hz.

Now, lets look at the 10" subwoofer:

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 80
20 92
30 99
40 104
50 108
60 111
70 114
80 116
90 118
100 120
110 122
120 123
130 125
140 126
150 127
160 128
170 129

As medium-performance subwoofers, I'd rate them for operation down to 50-60 Hz.

For your approx $2K investment I'm not dancing in the street. Your recovery position would be a subwoofer from SVS, Hsu, etc in the $1k-2K range possibly as your third sub.

I'm not sure why you're mentioning that the 4 1/2" drivers are "pretty wimpy as bass drivers" because they are not bass drivers. They are not intended to be used as bass drivers. The larger woofer is the bass driver, and you can set that speaker as "large" at your receiver/processor. It has it's own internal crossovers.

To the OP, when I had my 2002TL's on the short wall, and pulled about 2.5 to 3 feet out into the room they were very natural sounding with lots of bass impact, with the gain on the rear of the speaker set at 11:00 or 12:00...no need for a sub. I have since moved them to the long wall (due to new furniture) and found the need to hook up my older Velodine sub-woofer for more bass. You'll need to experiment with placement in your room.

Reading the manufacturer's documentation, it seems to me like the intent is that the 4 1/2 drivers are woofers and the 10 inch drivers are subwoofers. This is consistent with other speakers in the Deftech line.

This from the Deftech web site, their page dedicated to the bp-8060st

http://www.definitivetech.com/products/bp-8060st

" Later Definitive pioneered the concept of "powered towers" by incorporating powered subwoofers into Bipolar floor-standing speakers and dubbed them "SuperTowers." The BP-8060ST is a third generation BP SuperTower and makes use of our most advanced technologies,"

Significant phrase: "powered subwoofers"

FYI, in the manual for the 8060ST you have two hook up options. Both options state "set the receiver/processor to "large".

Since passing on the 8060 front and center, I've been looking at some discounted Mythos Four's and a Mythos Three that I can afford to pair with a good subwoofer. Any thoughts on if that would be a good set up? Comparable to the 8060 setup without a sub?

I am wondering where tese numbers come from. Are these from an independant lab, the manufacture, home measurements, or where?
What is the tes set up?
Was this using the LFE input of the UUT or using the speaker wire input?
Was the input signal direct to the speaker system or through another component?
What was the amplitude of the input signal(s)?

What is meant by "Max SPL, DB"? dos thiis mean the input was increased as the frequency was changed to measure the maximum possible output of the system? Or was the input voltage held constant and there was a drop off of output for the same input across the spectrum?

What was the room?


Very interesting numbers, if we know the test conditions.

I'm a little confused about his numbers also. I think the first number represents the frequency, and the second is the sound pressure level in decibels.

He is just throwing basic numbers out there to try and explain the 8060-st's...if you want true numbers talk to definitive or post in the definitive forum...I own the 8060's and they sure can be set as large.

They are based on a mathematical model that estimates speaker SPL versus frequency for low distortion. The model is based on accepted loudspeaker theory and the particular one is due to Sigfried Linkwitz. The parameters for the model are developed by taking the most optimistic reasonable view of the parameters for the loudspeaker being analyzed because actual data is unfortunately generally given.

A mathematical model.

The model ignores any practical differences between those options. It presumes that the best way for that particular speaker was used by ignoring any potential losses.

It is presumed that the speaker is connected directly to amplifier, or effectively so.

Whatever it takes to achieve the given results. That information is also estimated by the model (an Excel spread sheet) but I generally don't provide it because it requires even more assumptions.

The maximum undistorted acoustical SPL that a speaker can generate is limited by diaphragm area and Xmax.

A room that neither helps nor hurts the performance of the speaker is presumed by simply not including any possible room effects in the model.

The model is only consistent with itself. The intent is that it should be used as a guide. In many cases it shows that it is impossible for the given driver configuration, presuming SOTA drivers which are of course rarely used, to produce enough bass to be satisfying in a neutral room. I''ve checked the model against real world speakers on occasion, and it showed the same general shape of data as the real world speaker, but as promised the computer model significantly overstated what the speaker actually did.

It appears that you've missed the point. I never said that the 8060s can't be set as large. What I've said is that if you do that, you will encounter certain situations with performance. I don't recommend it on easy-to-explain theoretical grounds.

That is correct.

If you haven't tested the 8060's yourself you cannot say there will be situations with performance...unless your specific with your own tests.That is why I said to check with definitive for numbers and or any performance issues...that is what I meant...but thanks for your imput.

It is common engineering practice to base decisions on boundary condition models like this.

No speaker can reasonably be expected to exceed the performance numbers I post. Even though they are biased strongly towards the speaker in question, they still critique the capabilities of most of the speakers I apply them to.

Those numbers are usually unobtainable. They do rarely exist but they don't exist for the vast majority of all speakers that people talk about on these forums.

Of course you can try to prove me wrong and correct the data I post with the results of actual tests. ;-)

You seem to be the one to need to ask about the numbers....your numbers don't pertain to the 8060's and you've not done your own tests so I'll say again your numbers are basic numbers and don't reflect numbers related solely to the 8060's....just a basic accepted theory as you put it.

Arny, the 8060 has three 4 1/2" drivers whose output drops like a stone below 130hz or so. I'm not sure if they have a band pass filter, and they are each in their own sealed sub-enclosures which helps, but the point is they simply aren't tasked with high spl at frequencies below 130 hz. Even using your own best-case-scenario estimates, they don't seem insufficient.

Where is your mesurents that they drop like a stone after 130 hz?....if you don't have any then your speculating.

Josh, you need to do more reading and learning, and less posting.

I wouldn't set 4.5 inch drivers to large:eek: