Subwoofer Ownership – Your Path to Satisfaction - Page 5

Timeline
Mitsubishi SUB-10 1997 (Woofer blew 2010)
Sony SA-W3000 DEC 2010 (sold 3 weeks later-joined AVS)
Klips Sub-12 FEB 2011
Dual Klips Sub-12 MAR 2011 (still in 2ch system-double as end tables)
Polk PSW505 SEP 2011 (bsmt theater)
Dual Polk PSW505 NOV 2011 (sold Craigslist)
BFM Tuba THT Dayton RSS-HF 15" AUG 2012 (sold pending pick up)
Currently building Dual lilmike F-20's Dayton Audio Ultimax 15"

About My Journey
Inexpensive commercial offerings generally do not yield great results. Horns are a great alternative. If one has two children in college, go DIY.

Lessons Learned / Advice
If one wishes to save $$ stay off AVS.

Did you like the THT? Was it not enough for you? That's what I'm about to build.

I have a love/hate relationship with AVS.

Cost me thousands and thousands of $... At the same time, saved me thousands and thousands of $...[/quote]

Very well said!

The THT is a great sub. If I had built the THTLP I would have kept and built a second. I am having a go at the F-20 based upon form factor.

Starting in the late 80s, I've had:

2x 12" sealed Rockford Fosgate (car audio)
4x 10" DIY MTX Thunder (car audio)
4x 12" DIY Kicker Comps (car audio)
*Changed cars*
2x 15" DIY Earthquake (car audio)
2x 15" DIY Infinity (car audio)
2x 12" JL Audio (car audio)
Polk PSW10
Dayton Audio SUB-1200
eD A2-300
2011 Passive JTR Captivator
4x 15" Sealed DIY in 2x Dual Opposed

This is a cool Thread!

Car Audio 1995 Forward:

Single Prestige 8"
3 Clarion 12's
4 Cerwin Vega, Vega Series
2 Rockford Punch DVC 12's
2 Rockford Series 1's 18's
Single JL Audio 15w6
2 Kicker solo baric 12's (round ones)
2 American Bass HD 12's

Home Audio:

1995 Forward:

Yamaha dual 8" sub
Sunfire True-Sub MKII
Eosone 12"
Definitive Technology Super Cube III
Velodyne HGS 15 (current)


There have been long stretches where I had no system because all my financial hobby recources were going to a 2001 Mustang GT (sold) and a 2003 Mustang Cobra Convertible (stil own) that I had to make really fast:) I have 0 gauge wiring and a hi-output alternator installed so it's ready for sound deadening and a really nice system.

Timeline

2000-2006 Cambridge Soundworks Basscube 12 (RIP)
2006-2007 No sub, just mains (only 50Hz extension!)
2007-2009 Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba (sold)
2009-2011 Bill Fitzmaurice THT
2011-present Dual THTs

About My Journey
Man, I do remember the days when my 12" sealed sub was THE BOMB. It served well for nearly 7 years, until the THX Cavalcade trailer was discovered. It was the first track which caused it to distort, along with the opening scene of Attack of the Clones. I had no idea what reference level was, and was quite happy in a very live, WAF room with 5.1, having no idea what a room mode was nor would I have cared. It was not until that sub's amp died that I researched how to build one, as I had a table saw, etc. I was very budget strained, and built the Table Tuba, and it was light years beyond what the old 12" sealed could do, but limited bandwidth to 30Hz. Then I began to measure, and Pandora's box had been opened. I learned that I was listening at home for years at 30dB under reference, about bass trapping, multiple subs, constant directivity, etc. DIY is the way to go, unless budget is unlimited, and you already have some tools. Commercial offerings simply cannot keep up to what DIY can offer.

Lessons Learned / Advice
Before you take the leap and measure your system, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, please think it over. NOTHING may ever completely please you again sonically. There will always be that 'what if I could get 3 more Hz extension?' 'what if I could "cure" that suckout at 60Hz, right in the "chest slam" region?' What if I had SIXTEEN 18" drivers? How can I void my home's insurance policy with a subwoofer induced earthquake catastrophe? I used to have 10dB modal peaks at 30Hz and 60Hz with my Table Tuba, which made all films seem 'rumbly' and 'slammy'. Once I EQ'ed them out, I realized what Reference Level was, as everything was so quiet (amazing what a peaky response can do to your own 'loudness' estimation). I ran out of headroom trying to increase the volume level, hence the THT build. 10dB more headroom, one more octave of extension, only $500 (The Table Tuba was $250 total). 10dB below Reference was now easily reachable down to 15-16Hz, but each seat got something different. Every person would have different opinion's of a scene's bass. Hence the 2nd THT, to smooth modes in one direction. One row now essentially experiences the same thing.

I am serious. If you are pleased with what you have now, turn away. Far away. Curiosity could get the best of you, and DIY is like the CIA. Nobody leaves the Agency.....


JSS

They are the old Fi Car Audio SSD-15, manufactured prior to the design/tooling change.

Hi guys, I know popa was interested and maybe some of you might be as well. I've been going back and forth trying to get a dual opposed subwoofer cabinet CNC cut so that I could get a prototype up and running. The hope being that I (we) could offer it as a flat pack for anybody interested. It would be geared towards the 18" TC Sounds LMS Ultra, but could be adapted to fit pretty much any 18" driver out there. I got tired of waiting so I'm building the prototype myself now. I'm not terribly far just yet, but in the build thread theres a link to another thread where just about all the information you could want about where I'm heading lies. There are even a couple renderings of what it is roughly going to look like when it's finished in that thread.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/diy-corner-tips-techniques/84890-dual-opposed-prototype.html

Part of the road to satisfaction was the realization that hype was creating pseudo dissatisfaction and the realization that presented hype did not equal what I found when looking at the rubber as it met the road.

My satisfaction came about when I learned to ignore hype and pay attention to what research and personal experience showed to be true and accurate.

Rolling Stones: "Satisfaction"

...

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 3/26/13 at 5:20am

That build looks awesome. Just ridiculous amounts of bass must be coming from those things.

As to the dual opposed, I bought 3 sheets of MDF and lets say there's a lot less scrap than I thought there would be. Those sawhorses are rated up to 1000 lbs, but they look none too happy with all that MDF on top of them

Just for fun here is a short timeline with pics:

Wow........

Double WOW !

Looks like some of those sub setups could give you a full body massage...............

I am not even going to try and guess on a timeline, too many subs must have scrambled my brains

Here is a list of subwoofers I have owned:

Klipsch SW-12 II (pretty sure this was my first HT subwoofer bought used)
Velodyne HGS-18
HSU TN-1225 (pair)
Vandersteen 2Wq
NHT SubTwo pair
NHT 12" sealed sub (forgot the model)
NHT dual opposed 12" sub pair (I think W1)
NHT Evolution U2 sealed 12" sub pair
Dual Bag End Infrasub 18
Triad Platinum 18
Chiro C-150 THX sub
M&K THX sub (forgot the model)
Velodyne F-1500
Velodyne ULD-15
Kinergetics research THX sub
HSU 12" there first flagship
SVS CS-Ultra Pair
Sunfire True sub reference pair
Definitive Tech Supercube reference
Revel Ultima Sub-15
JL Audio F113
Earthquake Supernova 12" and 15"
RBH 1010-SEP

I know I am forgetting other subs but yeah, I have had a few I really only had so many as I knew someone who had a retail store and they would sell me there demo's and over stock cheap. Most of the contracts they had would not allow for online sales so they had a work around, me

Then I got into DIY and all hell broke loose

First was just a Kove Audio sub I picked up from Parts Express on close out. Really a car audio sub but in a sealed enclosure with a Crown audio K2 and Velodyne SMS-1 for EQ it really slammed for movies, I replaced my JL Audio F113 with it but admit that it lacked the SQ for music.

I then learned about TC Sounds and ordered a pair of TC3000 (now known as the Axis) 15" subs and built new enclosures. Cleaner sounding then the Kove subs and hit harder but lacked some mi-bass punch.

From there I have had the TC Sounds TC2000 in both the 15" and 12", Audiopulse Axis 12" pair and LMS Ultra 18" pair. TC Sounds is my favorite sub Mfg and the LMS Ultra was the first DIY sub I made that rivaled the JL Audio F113 for SQ while demolishing it for slam and output. The only other sub I would consider using over the LMS Ultra is the RE Audio XXX 18" in an Infinite Baffle installation with a ton of power. I have a single XXX 18" which I have tested in a large ported I made for a Pro sub which was tuned to 25hz, not ideal for the XXX. The output with a HPF enabled was stupid though for a single sub so I can only imagine what people with an IB installation must be experiencing.

Here is a list of the other DIY subs I have owned:

Exodus Maelstrom-X 18" pair
Exodus Maelstrom-X 21"
ACI Maestro 15" driver
ACI Titan II 12" driver (8)
NHT SubTwo 10" driver (10)
Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" (4)
Stereo Integrity HT 18" (4)
RCF LF21N451 21" Pro sub
RE Audio XXX 18"
JL Audio 13W7 13.5"
And probably a few I forget.

What I have learned over the years is that if you have the opportunity to go DIY or even AIY with the great flat pack options it will be by far the best performance for the money. Even then DIY is not for everyone, most people prefer the plug and play option which is understandable.

This is a great hobby, I just wish I had more time right now to enjoy it. Just like popalock I got 99 Problems but a sub ain't 1

That, and popalock is trying to fit 99 drivers into a 1500 cubic foot room!

Simply be ok with the fact that people make holistic decisions that encompass what their their entire families desire and not just themselves.

I'd bet they're really not miserable and it's not that big of a priority in their life if they're just asking about it now to begin with. Not trying to be abrasive, just sayin'.

One of the most imperative factors in becoming "satisfied" in this hobby is recognizing what will make YOU/your family the happiest, overall, instead of what's best for others, with different personal priorities, families, and lives.

I'm pretty confident I'm done playing "musical subs" until something breaks at this point. With a list too exhaustive to regurgitate, it's nearly embarrassing to me that I have made such a number of lateral, and nearly, pointless changes as subs are concerned. Such is life in this hobby, I suppose. The fact of the matter is MOST of the "higher performing" options have been extremely excellent choices that I could have enjoyed a decade or more longer. Go figure, lmao.

More specifically, I will say I was much better off when I realized 99.98% of the seconds of my music and 99.5+% of those of my movies contained miniscule to no content below ~15hz and therefore it was not worthwhile to ME to chase after output below that figure. Saved me a lot of time, money, and space. All that, and I still have a ridiculous "system" that routinely drops jaws and I enjoy infinitely.



I'd advise everyone the same: clearly identify what is important to you/your household and then pursue it as economically (from a cost AND time standpoint) and enjoy the hell out of it.

Off soapbox. Enjoy the weekend, all.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 3/28/13 at 11:10am

To some of us, the goal is your sort of system, packaged in the form of a sound bar, with no subwoofers exposed for the outside world to see.

High WAF.

I finally was able to convince the wife to accept a third subwoofer with the commitment of it being either a small, unobtrusive subwoofer or one that's hidden out of sight, behind a corner based great chair.

^ ha, lmao. My wife was really ok the above absurdity with the understanding that it will go into a dedicated basement space sooner than later.

Also, in the spirit of the equipment-side of this thread I'll supply the last 5 years or so and forget the other junk:

Definitive Technology SC 1
HSU ULS 15
SVS Ultra
Definitive Technology Trinity
JTR Captivator (passive version with a Crown xs 900 w/~2,000 watts)
Current: (2) DIY Dual 18" Dayton HO's in a ~7.5 ^3 cabinet with a Crown xti 4002 with ~1600 watts a cab.


James
Edited by mastermaybe - 3/28/13 at 11:13am

This is a fantastic post! Everyone who visits these forums should always begin the process with some perspective that regardless of other posters' goals, yours may not be the same and you should do what's best for you and (maybe) your family. And while your room is pretty inspiring, James, it seems like you've finally reached a point where it's time to stop worrying and just enjoy! Thanks for such a great post - hopefully you continue to enjoy your setup for a long time!

Oh, and just to make sure I stay on topic...this has been my journey.

1. Velodyne VA-1215x
2. Mirage S8
3. HSU ULS-15 + MBM-12
4. Seaton Submersive HP (used)

A relatively short list, but I never stop looking.