AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Killer DIY Sub build needed!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Killer DIY Sub build needed!! - Page 2

post #31 of 141
12/11/12 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

What's more overkill then sixteen 18" drivers with 10K watts tongue.gif I'm sure you'll be satisfied whichever way you go. Good luck!
Noooo, I wanted to be the first to have 16 18's...

Nooooooo..........
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #32 of 141
12/11/12 at 5:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

So I have gone ahead and gotten 8 of the Daytons to start with. While I wait to have the theater completed, I would like to also use a cab or two in my current living room. I was going to pickup an amp or two for that, but can't decide which. I love that Gorilla's exact design and power combo is tested and yields great results, but the Crown is just going to be too loud for the living room(the fan of course). It seems like the ep4000 or epx4000 have been tested to put out between 870 and 950 watts at 4ohm, 2 channels. I figure that effectively works out to about 1.5db loss compared to the XLS5000. Is that really worth the trouble of re-locating amps temporarily in another room?? Ultimately, the theater room will have an AV closet and I can use whatever amps work best without regard for fan noise, etc. I just figured if I really like it, I can make one cabinet work with one ep or epx in the living room for less than $1k.
..Oh yeah, Gorilla, please take my imitation of your design as a compliment. I was very impressed by it so I figure why waiver on my first real HT project:)

Congrats on the purchase! LOL @ 8 to start with. I think most are under the assumption that because they are inexpensive that they will need dozens of these to achieve decent output say on par with a 2-3000 commercial sub which is not the case. IF they are built, powered, and implemented properly 8 if these drivers will literally cause damage to your room. I've already found popped nails, moved objects off walls, etc with just 4 drivers. I think you will be very impressed with this setup once it's done and setup right.

As for the amp comparision, the EP4000 like you said will do 950ish in 2ohms while the CV5000/XLS5000/Marathon will do 2000-2500 which is right around 3-4DB difference. I've owned both and compared them extensively with my Captivators. With 'music' content (dubstep), I've found as much as a 5DB difference between the EP and the Crown. With that said, I think the EP4K's current selling price is a STEAL and I would probably pick up a few of them to run the 8 drivers. The next best value alternative would be the clone amps, if you're willing to deal with the whole risk/reward thing.

As others have said the stock fans in both the EP4000 and the Crown are LOUD!! Both can be fan modded, but the EP I can say is far easier to mod. Hope this info is helpful and good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Noooo, I wanted to be the first to have 16 18's...
Nooooooo..........

Don't worry you can be the first with 16 18's and 17,600 watts (dual FP14K clones) biggrin.gif
Reply
Reply
post #33 of 141
12/11/12 at 6:28am
Thread Starter 
Thank you guys for the thoughtful responses.

I actually figured the difference wrong between the amps, I was looking at 4ohm specs on the others, so the difference is significant IMO. In the dedicated room, I don't care about the fan noise. I can run something like the XLS5000 and it can be as noisy as it wants in the next room. I may even order two more 18s down the road for the family room if I like them. I am just thinking ahead here and worried about amp noise in the family room. The XLS fan mod being more difficult doesn't scare me, the result does though. Anyone know how much quieter the XLS is with a mod??

Lol @ Popalock...don't worry, your DIY skills and experience far surpass mine. If I do end up with 16, you will more tahn likely have it done before me. Not to mention that I am running out of "fun" money very quickly.

The clones aren't for me. I am just not willing to take any risk with them.
Reply
Reply
post #34 of 141
12/11/12 at 8:37am
Thread Starter 
So I also came into an opportunity on some Crown K2 and XLS5000 amps used. Anyone have thoughts on using a K2 to power two driver(one dual opposed enclosure)?? I thought because they have no fans, it would be nice in the family room and they should be able to put 1250 watts to each driver...2 18"s in one enclosure with the K2 running them should provide enough output to easily out match the Revel setup in there I would think. I have no experience with the K2, but it seems as though they hit their specs. Any reason not to use. I could then use the XLS amps in the theater.
Reply
Reply
post #35 of 141
12/11/12 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

So I also came into an opportunity on some Crown K2 and XLS5000 amps used. Anyone have thoughts on using a K2 to power two driver(one dual opposed enclosure)?? I thought because they have no fans, it would be nice in the family room and they should be able to put 1250 watts to each driver...2 18"s in one enclosure with the K2 running them should provide enough output to easily out match the Revel setup in there I would think. I have no experience with the K2, but it seems as though they hit their specs. Any reason not to use. I could then use the XLS amps in the theater.

Outside of not needing to fan mod, I don't see any reason to use the K2 over the EP4K.

Measurements:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/240#post_11661239

What are the details of the XLS5K? How many available? If you decide to pass on one of them, give me a holler. biggrin.gif
Reply
Reply
post #36 of 141
12/11/12 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
In typical fashion, I just bought an amp that is neither of the above:D

Went to a local shop that claimed to have the XLS5000 for a gret price and got there to find out they were mistaken...only 2500 series, so I got one of them and figur I can run 1250w to 2 drivers off of that in my family room. Should be enough I think. For the theater, I will probably keep the old eyes peeled for some XLS 5000s
Reply
Reply
post #37 of 141
12/11/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

In typical fashion, I just bought an amp that is neither of the above:D
Went to a local shop that claimed to have the XLS5000 for a gret price and got there to find out they were mistaken...only 2500 series, so I got one of them and figur I can run 1250w to 2 drivers off of that in my family room. Should be enough I think. For the theater, I will probably keep the old eyes peeled for some XLS 5000s

I have the Cerwin Vega CV-5000. A tad more expensive than the XLS 5000, but it's not very loud... Compared to the iNuke6000 I had previously.
Reply
Reply
post #38 of 141
12/11/12 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I have the Cerwin Vega CV-5000. A tad more expensive than the XLS 5000, but it's not very loud... Compared to the iNuke6000 I had previously.

Popa - What does the fan replacement situation look like on the CV? cool.gif BTW if you bring the CV on Saturday, we can use my RS meter to compare fan noise on the CV, Crown XLS5000, the LG clone FP14 both fan modded and non fan modded, and a modded EP4000. biggrin.gif

BTW I think it's safe to remove the "off the grid" tag from your avatar. biggrin.gif
Reply
Reply
post #39 of 141
12/11/12 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
Well, my impatience has struck again! Just returned the XLS2500 and bought the CV5000. The guys at the local GC were all laughing at me once I told them what it was for.biggrin.gif One kid was like, "8 18"s and 10KW in your house..that's the coolest thing I have ever heard" It made me chuckle becuase I never thought I would try something like this.. I might have to rename the thread to the "Gorilla inspired, Jake is in over his head build". I am going to test out two dual opposed subs in the family room with one CV for testing. The drivers should be here before the weekend and I will start building right away, only thing is, the CV5000 won't get here until next week ...got a heck of a deal on it though.
Reply
Reply
post #40 of 141
12/12/12 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Noooo, I wanted to be the first to have 16 18's...
Nooooooo..........
Don't worry you can be the first with 16 18's and 17,600 watts (dual FP14K clones) biggrin.gif

Well you better hurry popalock. I already have 8 18's sitting in my storage room and a mix of 5 18's, 2 15's and 2 21's already built.
I already have 35,000watts in my room, all I need is another two FP10kQ clones to bring me up to 51,800watts and some plywood to make it all happen.
No pressure! tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

I can't wait to see a GTG face-off review of the CV5k, XLS5k, EP4k and FP14k...

Shop, what is your budget for all of this stuff, soup to nuts!?
I've spent somewhere between 30-50k all in a 20x24ft space with a "relatively-similar" sound system. and I was told that that was a VERY GOOD price (and they are correct).
I hope you know what you are in for eek.gif
Reply
Reply
post #41 of 141
12/12/12 at 1:44pm
Thread Starter 
Must...order....eight ....MOOOORRREE!

BassthatHZ..The budget is up there. The equipment list in the family room consists of the Denon 4520, outlaw7005 amp, revel f12s, C12 and S12 surrounds, will have four of the Daytons, one CV5000, an Oppo 103 and my sharp 80". Total spent in that room including the bits for cabinet building material is about $13k...much better than msrp on all and at this point I have purchased everything.

The theater room is a whole different story. I have at least 8 Dayton 18s going in there, two CV5000 to run those...so even with discounts and cabinet expense I am at about $3300
plan for the following:
Processor(another 4520 or integra 80.3 or equiv) $2500approx or splurge on ADA:D
JTR Noesis x3 $6600
JTR T8 x8 $8800
Wyred4sound amps or equiv..up to $10,000
Oppo 103 $500
DCX or miniDSP $300
Seymour 180" wide EN4K $5000 or so
Sony VW1000 msrp $25,000 or possible something comparable
I figure about $10k for 15 chairs from Roman
Cost of the build out is worked into the "home building" cost to fool the wife into thinking my room costs less:D
I figured a few thousand for various wiring , etc

I figured on day one that to do it the way I wanted from the start and be happy without making major changes for a while, I would budget $50-60K. The list now, before any discounting or anything is about $70,000. I figure I can get $10k shaved between discount and taking advantage of things as they come up. My local shop called me today to offer me a Runco VX8D for $5k. Its a beast and all, but a native 720p piece. For $5k was hard to pass on though.
Reply
Reply
post #42 of 141
12/12/12 at 1:48pm
since you are ok with building your own subs, have you checked out the SEOS speaker kits? they would be WAAAY less money than that JTR stuff and a lot cheaper amplification needs as well. could put the money elsewhere
Reply
Reply
post #43 of 141
12/12/12 at 1:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

since you are ok with building your own subs, have you checked out the SEOS speaker kits? they would be WAAAY less money than that JTR stuff and a lot cheaper amplification needs as well. could put the money elsewhere

You know, I actually thought about it, but was waiting on more feedback/comparisons. I would love to save $10k, just don't want to find out that they are too far inferior to the Noesis. I was actually thinking about builidng a pair of them in the best configuration available to see how they sound.
Reply
Reply
post #44 of 141
12/12/12 at 1:57pm
i bet they sound awesome. they use components as good if not a little better than my Bob Crites speakers and im very happy with mine.
Reply
Reply
post #45 of 141
12/12/12 at 4:16pm
Thread Starter 
I sent Erich a message early this evening...I did not realize though that it isn't his full time gig, so it may take a bit to get the answers I need. That's more than fine, as I have plenty of time on that build. I want to chat with him about some custom options and see what we can come up with. I've searched the forum and seen some of the builds/components used, but not a lot of comparisons with other models like JTR, etc.

In other news, my CV5000 looks like it will be here early:D Tracking says it should arrive Friday when my Daytons do!!! Busy weekend ahead, I think.
Reply
Reply
post #46 of 141
12/12/12 at 5:47pm
The Jeff Bagby designed Zephyr kit that just came out should be a reference caliber type of speaker

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/seos-definimax12-kit.html

Considering how much you're willing to spend on commercial options, $1k for 3 speakers should be almost a no brainer to try out. I doubt Eric's going to do custom stuff because he has to cnc large quantities of material specifically for each kit.
Edited by Jay1 - 12/12/12 at 5:55pm
Reply
Reply
post #47 of 141
12/12/12 at 7:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The Jeff Bagby designed Zephyr kit that just came out should be a reference caliber type of speaker
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/seos-definimax12-kit.html
Considering how much you're willing to spend on commercial options, $1k for 3 speakers should be almost a no brainer to try out. I doubt Eric's going to do custom stuff because he has to cnc large quantities of material specifically for each kit.

I am going to take a look at those right now.

I did not mean custom from his perspective, but if I could pick up the seos waveguide, and other components and get his thoughts on having custom xover, and maybe something supe high perf for a driver. Maybe it isn't even neccessary...the kits that are may be just what I'm looking for. I will probably get a pair of kits in the next few days if possible and do a "test" build to see what I think.
Reply
Reply
post #48 of 141
12/12/12 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
Jay1, is that Zephyr, in your opinion, one of the best options available and worthy of comparison with the likes of JTR or Seaton for HT?? I have no problem spending even more than that on a diy project if it will yield the results. Even 7-800 a piece is a substantial difference fromt he 2200ea that the Noesis are ya know. I just want to be sure that I end up with something that is incredably dynamic but silky smooth.
Reply
Reply
post #49 of 141
12/12/12 at 7:31pm
Jeff Bagby is one of the most respected minds in the world of audio. The fact that he designed this speaker, and used a very high quality woofer gives it a level of prestige. Not to take anything away from any other designs/designers, this one just has the "all star" treatment.

I have no doubts this will easily compete with pricey commercial speakers.
Reply
Reply
post #50 of 141
12/12/12 at 8:37pm
Instead of the Wyred4sound amps, you could get double the power for just $80 more, what you should look into is these here: http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpr1

1/4 of a Farad of capacitance and 1000watts into 8ohm and 1750watts into 4. You're not going to find better than that.

The downside is they weigh 5 times as much, take up 6 times the space, and produce 3 times the heat/waste-power, but who cares about the environment right? biggrin.gif



That said...
I did a direct A/B comparison of my B&O mono 1000's (i.e Wyred4sound SX-1000's) to the output of the FP10kQ clone and it sounded shockingly similar in treble quality, actually the clone was slightly better and had 4 channels vs 1.
I'm actually considering selling them and replacing them with two clones, I could save $1000 and 4U's of rack space while gaining another 11,800watts of power, for the same quality... if not better. I was actually shock with disbelief, had I not heard it with my own ears.
If only Sanway had better Quality Control of their products they pump out.... grrr!!!
Reply
Reply
post #51 of 141
12/13/12 at 3:34am
If you go with those SEOS speakers, you won't need anywhere near that much power. You could go with Emotiva's small amps.
Reply
Reply
post #52 of 141
12/13/12 at 9:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Jeff Bagby is one of the most respected minds in the world of audio. The fact that he designed this speaker, and used a very high quality woofer gives it a level of prestige. Not to take anything away from any other designs/designers, this one just has the "all star" treatment.
I have no doubts this will easily compete with pricey commercial speakers.

I have talked to a few folks and that seems to be the consensus. I think I will order a couple of the Zephyr kits and Delta pro kits today to try out. New thread on the way for speakers:D, god knows I will need the help!
Reply
Reply
post #53 of 141
12/13/12 at 4:30pm
Thread Starter 
Good news bad news time...

Bad news: I thought the CV5000 would get here by tomorrow, but it won't be here until Monday from GC.

Good news: Daytons show up tomorrow:D

More good news, just ordered 8 more!!!!biggrin.gif Only thing is PE said inventory is down and they will arrive at different times
Reply
Reply
post #54 of 141
12/13/12 at 5:08pm
That's ok. Gotta build the boxes first anyway!
Reply
Reply
post #55 of 141
12/13/12 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

That's ok. Gotta build the boxes first anyway!

You are correct sir...ugh DCX is backordered too:mad:
Reply
Reply
post #56 of 141
12/13/12 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

You are correct sir...ugh DCX is backordered too:mad:

by DCX do you mean Feedback Destroyer? what made you choose that over a MiniDSP?
Reply
Reply
post #57 of 141
12/13/12 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

You are correct sir...ugh DCX is backordered too:mad:

Dude you have several weeks/month before you are ready to eq. Plenty of time. smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #58 of 141
12/13/12 at 7:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

by DCX do you mean Feedback Destroyer? what made you choose that over a MiniDSP?

To be honest, I am a real newb to the more complex part of the diy stuff. I have built enclosures, set up systems, etc. but the level of complexity that a really good, well setup system is still a bit beyond me at this point. I read that the DCX with rew was extremely easy to use. Someone may enlighten to the minidsp and I could go with that, but at this point, that is what I based my decision on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Dude you have several weeks/month before you are ready to eq. Plenty of time. smile.gif

Hahahahaha..I know, I just get waaaaaayyy over anxious. I am just psyched to get going on it all.
Reply
Reply
post #59 of 141
12/13/12 at 7:49pm
I had a different version of the feedback destroyer before and it's not too bad once it's hooked up right and your used to it, but I'm going with a balanced minidsp this time. Looks much more user friendly with GUI's and such. It also works together with REW. I believe it's also cheaper than the DCX as well.
Reply
Reply
post #60 of 141
12/13/12 at 7:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I had a different version of the feedback destroyer before and it's not too bad once it's hooked up right and your used to it, but I'm going with a balanced minidsp this time. Looks much more user friendly with GUI's and such. It also works together with REW. I believe it's also cheaper than the DCX as well.

I'm gonna have to check that out tomorrow. I don't want to make any more hasty decisions and regret them, so I will deff head the advice to look into the mini
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Killer DIY Sub build needed!!