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ADA Cinema Reference Mach IV

post #1 of 153
12/9/12 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 
I think it's time to open a thread dedicated to this ADA's flagship home theater controller/preamplifier.
Until now Ada Cinema Reference came up in several threads but I'm sure that it deserves its own space
where it's possible to understand why it can be considered one of the best products around the world.

I'd like to collect as many information and impressions as possible.

For what I know (but please correct me if I'm wrong)...

This is basically an Ada Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV connected
to a commercial Trinnov but this is a FULL DIGITAL connection
to get in this way the best from this fantastic processor, the only, as you know, to perform
(2d)/3d remapping, mantaining this benefit for all the sources (8 hdmi).

DSP section is actually the Trinnov that uses an Intel i5 processor (the same inside the famous MC)
and Dacs are the ones of this Trinnov.

The weak point is that the Reference is not upgradable like other top level products as Theta Casablanca or Datasat RS20i
and at this price level this is a very important lack.
Firmware upgrades should be possible... but Would you have to send it to Ada in Usa?
and what about Hardware upgrades? new hdmi cards have been changed to Rhapsody in the past ( 1.3 to 1.4)
but nothing more for the Reference in case of major upgrades?
It's a pity!
But if you want """the best""" for movies.. and you need a trinnov and you want it full digitally connected without
giving up on several surround modes whatever the source, these are the rules...

by the way could someone working in Ada clarify officially/publicly which are these rules?
New codecs like dts neo x, could or could not implemented in the future? the same for new hdmi specs?
and if yes, how?

is there an user's manual downloadable? I cannot find it on the site...

Could you use the trinnov inside as a stand alone processor if in the future you had to buy a new processor because of
either new codecs or new connections?

in other words.. let's talk about Reference;)
Edited by Grifo - 12/9/12 at 5:01pm
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post #2 of 153
12/9/12 at 5:44pm
Good idea to start this thread Grifo - this unit is something special and while I am not in the market (nor would ever be) I am interested in hearing more about it. I also expect some future owners would love to know whether it may be possible to provide an upgrade path.
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post #3 of 153
12/9/12 at 6:16pm
I am considering adding the MC to my system. I am aware I won't be able to use various surround modes when inputting digitally (but can use them via analog input). However, with the benefit of the EQ nad remapping, I'm not sure how significant a loss that is...

I'm thinking a 8 in / 12 out config with a digital input card. I'd have to get a modded Oppo for Blu Ray for digital input. I'm considering adding more channels to my system.. either height channels or 2 more channels across the front to increase the width of the sound stage.

It looks wickedly sophisticated and there is so much that it can do.

ANyone else thinking on a TEQ or MC (or ADA Reference)?
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post #4 of 153
12/9/12 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'm considering adding more channels to my system.. either height channels or 2 more channels across the front to increase the width of the sound stage.
What signal would you feed the additional channels? Does the Cinema Reference have any processing, such as DTS Neo:X, that can extract Height or Wide channels?
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post #5 of 153
12/10/12 at 1:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I am considering adding the MC to my system. I am aware I won't be able to use various surround modes when inputting digitally (but can use them via analog input). However, with the benefit of the EQ nad remapping, I'm not sure how significant a loss that is...
for example DPL IIx is not in the Oppo...
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post #6 of 153
12/10/12 at 1:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

What signal would you feed the additional channels? Does the Cinema Reference have any processing, such as DTS Neo:X, that can extract Height or Wide channels?

this is one of the reasons why upgradability would be important.. dts neo: x is not present in the Reference....at the moment.(forever?)
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post #7 of 153
12/10/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

What signal would you feed the additional channels? Does the Cinema Reference have any processing, such as DTS Neo:X, that can extract Height or Wide channels?

Right. Im not aware of any software yet for DTS Neo:X. Hopefully, ADA adds this to the SSP. I can always run this via analog in and use the surround modes.

Either I need a player that will decode it in the future or run straight DTS / TRUE HD.

As faras the extra channels.. just to get a more precise sound field and aid in phantom imaging. I have a large gap in speakers between my scree and front row (11 ft). I'm going to try some speakers there (mounted temporarily), take some measurements and see if placing them there permanently will improve my sound field. Same with height channels. THere will be some experimentation and a whole lot of fun.
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post #8 of 153
12/10/12 at 9:10am
It's worth running the Trinnov software prior to adding new speakers.

In my case I was surprised to see on the 3D maps where some of my side and surround speakers appeared acoustically, versus where I know they sit physically. The 3D mapping is helping me to figure out where to locate "helper" speakers to generate a more precise 3D soundfield.
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post #9 of 153
12/10/12 at 9:25am
Right. That was Curt's recommendation as well. We are going to take baseline readings of my system 'as is' and make needed adjustments and discuss adding more speakers if need be.
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post #10 of 153
12/10/12 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Right. That was Curt's recommendation as well. We are going to take baseline readings of my system 'as is' and make needed adjustments and discuss adding more speakers if need be.

The quality of the speakers themselves make a huge difference as well. Since I upgrade my surround channels (to B&W signature 8NT in-wall) and center (To Linn Klimax 340A) my soundfield has become completely immersive with just a 5.1 system. My room is only 20' deep though.
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post #11 of 153
12/10/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

As faras the extra channels.. just to get a more precise sound field and aid in phantom imaging.
OK, so it's not like you're trying to use Height speakers to give the impression of sounds above you, or using the Wide speakers to give the impression of an expanded soundstage? You're instead going to use them as "helper" speakers (to use Brucemck2's term) in order to give the impression of an idealized 7.1-speaker layout.

In that case, are you considering a TEQ-12 or a Trinnov MC12? That will allow you to do 7 main speakers, 2 Heights, 2 Wides, and still have a channel left over for sub(s).
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post #12 of 153
12/10/12 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

OK, so it's not like you're trying to use Height speakers to give the impression of sounds above you, or using the Wide speakers to give the impression of an expanded soundstage? You're instead going to use them as "helper" speakers (to use Brucemck2's term) in order to give the impression of an idealized 7.1-speaker layout.
In that case, are you considering a TEQ-12 or a Trinnov MC12? That will allow you to do 7 main speakers, 2 Heights, 2 Wides, and still have a channel left over for sub(s).

Correct.

I'm leaning towards the MC with 8 inputs and 12 outputs. I can software upgrade it in the future to 12 inputs/12 outputs when (if) 11.1 comes to be.

The TEQs are not upgradeable. I can take this up to 16 channels if I want down the road and 'pay as I go' when I need more channels. Moreover, I can do a digital input as well as analog from my MACH IV with the MC. Not possible with the TEQ.

In chatting with Curt, he can do a pretty solid cursory set up of my system remotely so I can get a feel for how things sound well in advance of a trip out to do final calibrations on site.
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post #13 of 153
12/10/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Correct.
I'm leaning towards the MC with 8 inputs and 12 outputs. I can software upgrade it in the future to 12 inputs/12 outputs when (if) 11.1 comes to be.
The TEQs are not upgradeable. I can take this up to 16 channels if I want down the road and 'pay as I go' when I need more channels. Moreover, I can do a digital input as well as analog from my MACH IV with the MC. Not possible with the TEQ.
In chatting with Curt, he can do a pretty solid cursory set up of my system remotely so I can get a feel for how things sound well in advance of a trip out to do final calibrations on site.

If you have all the hardware in the house, I would get the digi out modded Oppo, and create one analog input into the Trinnov coming from the ADA, doing post processing in the ADA to create the extra channels, and one digital input into the Trinnov from the modded Oppo. The digital input would creating the extra channels using remapping in the Trinnov.

You can than do an A/B comparison to decide what works best.
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post #14 of 153
12/10/12 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I can do a digital input as well as analog from my MACH IV with the MC.
How do you connect the Mach IV to the MC digitally? Does the MC have HDMI inputs?
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post #15 of 153
12/10/12 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

How do you connect the Mach IV to the MC digitally? Does the MC have HDMI inputs?

Sorry... digitally direct in from a modded BD player.
No HDMI and no plans it seems either... Too niche.
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post #16 of 153
12/10/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

If you have all the hardware in the house, I would get the digi out modded Oppo, and create one analog input into the Trinnov coming from the ADA, doing post processing in the ADA to create the extra channels, and one digital input into the Trinnov from the modded Oppo. The digital input would creating the extra channels using remapping in the Trinnov.
You can than do an A/B comparison to decide what works best.

Thanks.

That is exactly the plan.
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post #17 of 153
12/10/12 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Sorry... digitally direct in from a modded BD player.
No HDMI and no plans it seems either... Too niche.

It is allready there - called the ADA Cinema Reference Mach IV.....
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post #18 of 153
12/10/12 at 1:01pm
It is... and that would be easier but there is no modding it and the price is prohibitive for such.smile.gif
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post #19 of 153
12/10/12 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks.
That is exactly the plan.

Unfortunately, I believe the modded Oppo does not output HDMI and coax digital simulaneously. For a tru A/B real time switching comparison, you would need two Oppos. One modded, one standard. You need two copies of some Blu Rays and synch them up. Then you can switch between sources with a push of the button on the Trinnov (Trinnov preset select though through iRule). Should be interesting ....
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post #20 of 153
12/10/12 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Unfortunately, I believe the modded Oppo does not output HDMI and coax digital simulaneously. For a tru A/B real time switching comparison, you would need two Oppos. One modded, one standard. You need two copies of some Blu Rays and synch them up. Then you can switch between sources with a push of the button on the Trinnov (Trinnov preset select though through iRule). Should be interesting ....

Yeah will be fun. I have iRule but you are simply talking about RS-232 commands to the Trinnov correct?
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post #21 of 153
12/10/12 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Yeah will be fun. I have iRule but you are simply talking about RS-232 commands to the Trinnov correct?

Correct - but you would need to code the Trinnov RS232 commands in iRule. You could also switch Trinnov inputs using VNC.
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post #22 of 153
12/10/12 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Correct - but you would need to code the Trinnov RS232 commands in iRule. You could also switch Trinnov inputs using VNC.
and any parameter settings - target curve, filter resoution, Xovers, etc. etc. - will require VNC control, so pretty sure Curt must set him up with VNC before all else. iRule later!wink.gif
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post #23 of 153
12/10/12 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

and any parameter settings - target curve, filter resoution, Xovers, etc. etc. - will require VNC control, so pretty sure Curt must set him up with VNC before all else. iRule later!wink.gif

Definitely, once you are fully configured and calibrated you can do basic preset selection and volume control with iRule. Until then, VNC rules.
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post #24 of 153
12/10/12 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Correct - but you would need to code the Trinnov RS232 commands in iRule. You could also switch Trinnov inputs using VNC.

Likely both.

I'm not fully converted to iRule in my theater but I do my own RS-232 programming of my RTI touch pad and can program RS-232 codes for that (and iRule). I just need the RS-232 protocol for the Trinnov... Or do you have the Trinnov protocol?

Actually it looks like there are a lot of options for control: Trinnov Processors can be remotely controlled via Ethernet IP commands, RS-232 or from any device through VNC.

Yes, I'm sure Curt will help with VNC.

Thanks!
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post #25 of 153
12/10/12 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

digitally direct in from a modded BD player.
By bypassing the pre-pro, you'll be skipping features like PLIIx, so you won't be able to scale 5.1 soundtracks to your 7.1 layout. Modern A-to-D conversion is transparent enough that I would use analogue connections from the pre-pro.
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post #26 of 153
12/10/12 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Likely both.
I'm not fully converted to iRule in my theater but I do my own RS-232 programming of my RTI touch pad and can program RS-232 codes for that (and iRule). I just need the RS-232 protocol for the Trinnov... Or do you have the Trinnov protocol?
Actually it looks like there are a lot of options for control: Trinnov Processors can be remotely controlled via Ethernet IP commands, RS-232 or from any device through VNC.
Yes, I'm sure Curt will help with VNC.
Thanks!

I have the RS232 codes for Trinnov. This was not trivial to figure out, because it requires calculation of "checksum" validation codes for each command, but Curt and tech support in France were if great help.
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post #27 of 153
12/10/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

By bypassing the pre-pro, you'll be skipping features like PLIIx, so you won't be able to scale 5.1 soundtracks to your 7.1 layout. Modern A-to-D conversion is transparent enough that I would use analogue connections from the pre-pro.

In my experience, the difference between "Oppo HDMI -> ADA -> Trinnov Analog in and "Oppo digi out -> Trinnov digital in" is quite dramatic.
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post #28 of 153
12/11/12 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I have the RS232 codes for Trinnov. This was not trivial to figure out, because it requires calculation of "checksum" validation codes for each command, but Curt and tech support in France were if great help.

Doh! That is heavy. I recall that my old Sony Qualia required such computations and I needed help.

Would you mind uploading your irule panle (Trinnov) to the iRule server so I could look at it? Here's how: http://support.iruleathome.com/customer/portal/articles/471860-sharing-and-importing-panels-pro-license-

DId you try the IP commands? Wouldn't they be easier to implement?

Thanks!
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post #29 of 153
12/11/12 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Doh! That is heavy. I recall that my old Sony Qualia required such computations and I needed help.
Would you mind uploading your irule panle (Trinnov) to the iRule server so I could look at it? Here's how: http://support.iruleathome.com/customer/portal/articles/471860-sharing-and-importing-panels-pro-license-
DId you try the IP commands? Wouldn't they be easier to implement?
Thanks!

I cannnot share my panes because I have the limted $50 iRule. However, what I have is this:

Trinnov volume up / down / mute button embedded into my Oppo control screen
Trinnov volume up / down / mute button embedded into my Satellite TV control screen
Very basic Trinnov screen with volume up / down / mute and input select 1 (2 channel), 2 (Oppo MCH), 3 (Satellite TV).

I have the big volume up / down button for 5dB steps and a small one for 1 dB steps.

I have the Trinnov control pane on my IPad and my IPhone. When playing 2 channel, I control volume on my iPhone and use the iPad to controlo my music library in JRemote. When playing multi channel, I control everything from a single pane in iRule.

I can get you the codes with the calculated checksum values. Let me know when you're up and running. I believe at this point Curt has them as well. This took a few iterations to get it to work.

I never used IP commands. No idea how this would be implemented.
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post #30 of 153
12/11/12 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I have the big volume up / down button for 5dB steps and a small one for 1 dB steps.
Hey Eric, here's a tip I got from Curt, which you may not know...

I often find that 1dB volume steps are too coarse, but it turns out that you can adjust in 0.1dB steps. Go to the Processor tab. Right hand column, 2nd item down is Output Volume. Unlike the main volume buttons, these permit 0.1dB increments. Very handy!
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