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ADA Cinema Reference Mach IV - Page 5

post #121 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

Well, too easy to say that.. Try to spend such an amount and before getting your product become informed that something is already changing..


Lets see ....

We had HDMI 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and soon maybe 1.5

At what point do you think you might decide to purchase something?

And Yes I do it all the time. Why? Because I am going to be on this planet only so many years.

Would really hate my life if I waited until I died to enjoy the little time I have on this planet.

Its kind of like the guy who waited until he retired to take up golf.

He didn't have the time or money to take up the game.

When he finally retired he couldn't swing a club due to a stroke.

He lived his last days miserable and depressed.

When people come to my funeral; I want them to come and say he enjoyed his life and left a happy man.

JMTCW


Jim
post #122 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

So does that mean YOU'RE finally going to spend the 40k on a Reference, Jeff?

I've noticed quite the love-fest about it lately, what changed your mind?

Dan

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbr View Post

I think it was his wife.

Well, my wife's thoughts do count in the home theater realm - for sure. She digs movies and appreciates the great experience we get at home in the theater. She has a better ear anyways.

I feel the MC is the more practical way to go. I have a Mach IV and though the set up would be more complicated, I can buy a loaded MC for under $15K and add a modded Oppo for another $1500 - A far cry from $40K. I think the value of the ADA, for me, would be in the $25K area. This is what I would pay. But hey, if they are getting $40K and selling them out in each run, more power to them!
post #123 of 296
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post

Lets see ....

We had HDMI 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and soon maybe 1.5

At what point do you think you might decide to purchase something?

I have already decided to buy.. and it's because of what you write that
I keep on saying that upgradability is very important, specially for products so expensive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post

And Yes I do it all the time. Why? Because I am going to be on this planet only so many years.

Would really hate my life if I waited until I died to enjoy the little time I have on this planet.

Its kind of like the guy who waited until he retired to take up golf.

He didn't have the time or money to take up the game.

When he finally retired he couldn't swing a club due to a stroke.

He lived his last days miserable and depressed.

When people come to my funeral; I want them to come and say he enjoyed his life and left a happy man.

great philosophy but I really hope to:rolleyes:tongue.gif be alive in two next years
post #124 of 296
I think that is the most logical plan for you, Jeff.

Dan
post #125 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Fair points but HDMI 1.5 is still vaporware. Before it actually goes into production in the high end will be a long time. It always is. For now HDMI 1.4 is well supported.

I have been away for over 6 months because of work issues but hope to back on a regular basis within the next 4 weeks but I did want to jump in and note that the upgrade of my CRM IV was painless both in terms of cost and process...I would like to think that ADA would provide the same path for *BOTH* the CRM IV and the Reference to the extent it is essentially a board replacement.

In terms of fairness I think that the car analogy is a little because as I understand things 911 Turbo S has only ever been offered at the end of a model / production run which means that those that want a Turbo S have no choice but to get one before a body / model change.
post #126 of 296
Welcome back, Joel!

Good to see your head will be back above water soon! Hopefully it was worth all the effort. I'd love to chat offline when you get a chance.

Dan
post #127 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Welcome back, Joel!

Good to see your head will be back above water soon! Hopefully it was worth all the effort. I'd love to chat offline when you get a chance.

Dan

Absolutely, give me another 4 to 6 weeks to get back to a normal life and then we will most definitely talk and hopefully meet up.

Best regards to you in the new year,
post #128 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

I think that is the most logical plan for you, Jeff.

Dan

What is given up with Mach IV + MC -vs- Reference?
post #129 of 296
You sacrifice the ability to have ALL sources that are connected via HDMI receive the Trinnov treatment without the extra A-D conversion. For instance; in our demo room we use the Kaleidescape system almost exclusively to demo material- it's the easiest way to show a wide array of movies and music in an efficient manner. No one offers "modded" Kaleidescape zone players to work with the MC; so you'd connect to the Rhapsody and then process via the Rhapsody's analog outputs (like using a TEQ). So that's sources like: Tivo, PS3, Xbox 360, Apple TV, Kaleidescape, Fusion Research (if you don't have Kscape), etc. all receive the same level treatment from the processor.

When you run an MC+Rhapsody, the only way you get that "full digital" experience is through a modified Blu-Ray player- so you're limited to what you can do with that device and still remain in the "full digital" domain; otherwise it's exactly like using the ADA TEQ+ Rhapsody without the benefit of the ADA Bus control handshake between the two devices (essentially a possible gain structure difference/issue if you're not careful).

If one is the type of client that CAN honestly consider the Reference, the assumption is that person is not going to want to compromise ANY source, that client wants the absolute best performance they can get from whatever is connected to that box- that's what the Reference does. At the moment the Reference is really the only way to get "full digital" pathway without any compromise for any source connected in a system and receive Trinnov optimization to boot.

For Jeff's situation, since the Reference is un-obtainable at his desired price; the logical choice for him is to purchase the MC, the modded Oppo, and connect them via SPDIF-AES converter. At least then he'll get the benefit of "full-digital" pathway for Blu-Ray discs, DVD, CD, and whatever else you can do with the Oppo. Since he views movies once, he can maintain the disc player method.

My demo system has started to migrate to a disc-less method via the Kaleidescape store (we're part of the Beta)... so for that system it's only a matter of time before the disc becomes obsolete.

Dan
post #130 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

At least then he'll get the benefit of "full-digital" pathway for Blu-Ray discs, DVD, CD, and whatever else you can do with the Oppo. Since he views movies once, he can maintain the disc player method.

Note that the new Oppos have two HDMI inputs:

Dual HDMI Inputs – Connect external devices such as set-top boxes and network streaming devices to take further advantage of the excellent audio and video processing functions by the BDP-105. The BDP-105 offers two HDMI inputs, one on the front and one on the back, and the front HDMI input doubles as an MHL input.

It seems like one could use any HDMI source into the Oppo and thus take adavantage of the modded SPDIF outputs. With an external HDMI switcher any number of sources could be added.

I don't know of anyone who has verified this operation but it looks good on paper.
post #131 of 296
Will it apply es/ex to 5.1 signals?
post #132 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

Note that the new Oppos have two HDMI inputs:

Dual HDMI Inputs – Connect external devices such as set-top boxes and network streaming devices to take further advantage of the excellent audio and video processing functions by the BDP-105. The BDP-105 offers two HDMI inputs, one on the front and one on the back, and the front HDMI input doubles as an MHL input.

It seems like one could use any HDMI source into the Oppo and thus take adavantage of the modded SPDIF outputs. With an external HDMI switcher any number of sources could be added.

I don't know of anyone who has verified this operation but it looks good on paper.

This is why I am eagerly awaiting the digi out board for the 103. I could ditch my SSP altogether and run my satellite TV into the Oppo over HDMI. Unfortunately, the guys building the digi out board have not indicated they have any imminent plans to build it for the 103.
post #133 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Will it apply es/ex to 5.1 signals?

from what I understand yes.
post #134 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

This is why I am eagerly awaiting the digi out board for the 103. I could ditch my SSP altogether and run my satellite TV into the Oppo over HDMI. Unfortunately, the guys building the digi out board have not indicated they have any imminent plans to build it for the 103.

Who's building a Digi out board?

Like Dan mentioned, I am 95% DVD Blu Ray in my theater. I do watch TV every now and again in the theater but I place little importance on the sonics.

I'm not sure I'd ditch my Mach IV, but could live with the extra A/D conversion for all other sources.

On a side note, PL IIx decoding would be a nice feature but I know the Trinnov can work around that.
post #135 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Who's building a Digi out board?

Like Dan mentioned, I am 95% DVD Blu Ray in my theater. I do watch TV every now and again in the theater but I place little importance on the sonics.

I'm not sure I'd ditch my Mach IV, but could live with the extra A/D conversion for all other sources.

On a side note, PL IIx decoding would be a nice feature but I know the Trinnov can work around that.

I think I send this before.

http://audiopraise.com/

You can run your non critical sources into the ADA, and into the MC12 doing A/D conversions, and run the Oppo digital into the MC12.
post #136 of 296
Any idea if the Oppo audio would lag behind the video in such a configuration in a 93?

DO you know if a 103 digi board is in the works?
post #137 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Any idea if the Oppo audio would lag behind the video in such a configuration in a 93?

DO you know if a 103 digi board is in the works?

I run the digital audio through the Trinnov over S/PDIF and the video straight into my PJ. The Trinnov has a systems delay so theoretically this could get out of synch, but I don't notice it. I am not a critical video watcher though. If you run the video to some processor allowing yopu to add delay you could compensate.

I inquired about a 103 board and nothing is in the works. They are toying with the idea of an outboard HDMI to 4x S/pdif converter. I pointed out this would "push the bounderies of legality", and they are aware of this, so this may not happen either.
post #138 of 296
That converter would be ideal. I don't think legality is an issue as there is no law against converting tos to HDMI. But hey, I'm biased!
post #139 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

That converter would be ideal. I don't think legality is an issue as there is no law against converting tos to HDMI. But hey, I'm biased!

If legality was not an issue someone would have jumped on building a cenverter like this, the HD621 would not encrypt its full resolution signal and SSP's would not have to downsample S/PDIF output signals from HDMI sources.
post #140 of 296
Code:
At this moment I really cannot say when (or even if) we start working on 
the module for BDP-103. Out public products usually act as a platform to 
  verify and fine tune a new technology and to get the maximum 
performance from a host system (BDP-93). There is nothing we could 
improve on the Vanity93 (digital output module for an universal player), 
therefore a module for BDP-103 is not a priority in a near future.
reply from Pavel - Audiopraise - last week .


My Vanity93 is on its way to me .

Larry
post #141 of 296
Thread Starter 
many peolpe prefer an analogue connection between the br player and the processor than hdmi...
well, is therefore vain the effort to get an all digital path (source, reference/trinnov) to get the best result?
post #142 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

many peolpe prefer an analogue connection between the br player and the processor than hdmi...
well, is therefore vain the effort to get an all digital path (source, reference/trinnov) to get the best result?

Some folks prefer an "analog" MCH system with analog outs into a MCH analog preamp, because in their experience a digital signal over HDMI into the DACs of a processor is inferior to analog outs into a MCH analog preamp. They will not have access to the EQ / DRC, and need to do bass management and delays in the player. You will also need a very good analog player (like Marantz UD9004).

However, if you decide to do the do bass management, delays and possibly EQ in the processor, you will necessarily use the DACs in the processor. In this scenario, I am not aware of anyone that actually prefers using the analog inputs on the processor and do A/D conversion in the processor, instead of using HDMI.
post #143 of 296
Thread Starter 
understand..
but this is true even if you have an Anthem avm50/d2v that is able to process analog inputs?
.. and as source an oppo 95?
Edited by Grifo - 1/17/13 at 9:10am
post #144 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

undrstand..
but this is true even if you have an Anthem avm50/d2v that is able to process analog inputs?
.. and as source an oppo 95?

I believe the Anthem has an analog domain bass management option. So for two channel, I can envisage people running the Oppo 95 analog into the Anthem and still be able to use their subs. Very likely, the Oppo DACs for the mains are superior to the Anthem's so this would be a preferable signal path over HDMI or digital coax. In this scenario, there is no A/D conversion.

IF someone also prefer the all analog path for multi-channel over digital into HDMI in the Anthem AVM 50, there is not point wasting your money on a full blown digital processor. You should simple get a MCH analog preamp instead and do bass management in your player. You could even get the parasound P7 MCH preamp which has an analog domain cross-over.
Edited by edorr - 1/17/13 at 8:11am
post #145 of 296
Thread Starter 
no, I have already bought the Reference.
I believe in the digital path into the trinnov..
I was asking just for curiosity...
because many people deride hdmi...
post #146 of 296
Thread Starter 
the anthem atually can process analog signals as well
but this would imply a double conversion... they say..
post #147 of 296
I had Curt from Trinnov and Remi from Keith Yates' shop in over the weekend. Two full days of audio calibration later and the Ref really sings!

I highly recommend getting someone out who has a lot of experience with these units. It sounded very nice before they arrived, and a huge step up now that they're done.
post #148 of 296
Wow. What did Remi do? Subs?? VEry cool!
post #149 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

I had Curt from Trinnov and Remi from Keith Yates' shop in over the weekend. Two full days of audio calibration later and the Ref really sings!

I highly recommend getting someone out who has a lot of experience with these units. It sounded very nice before they arrived, and a huge step up now that they're done.
So you're the guy Curt was visiting! I dimly recall from another forum that you're running SS10's, yes?
post #150 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

So you're the guy Curt was visiting! I dimly recall from another forum that you're running SS10's, yes?

Not anymore. The SS10s are very nice, but I had the full sized 12" units (with a matching center channel) in an older system in a different home.

I'm currently running PHC active three ways across the fronts, and two ways for heights, sides, and upper and lower rears.
( http://www.professionalhomecinema.com/loudspeakers/scr-2115sm/ )

Dennis Erskine helped me lay out the room and Keith Yates helped with the acoustic treatment plan and subwoofers location modelling. Curt and Remi led the acoustic calibration.
Edited by Brucemck2 - 2/11/13 at 7:55am
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