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ADA Cinema Reference Mach IV - Page 8

post #211 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

I now do not doubt that "edorr" once said that this arrangement may sound better than ADA Reference . Those having the facility must try this setup .

For SACD this is almost certainly the case, because the vanity93 board offers reclocking and custom DSD - LPCM conversion at 176/24, which is audibly superior to the standard Oppo DSD conversion that is available over the HDMI output. For non DSD sources what sounds best I have no idea. With the recent addition of the DB25 - AES/EBU input to the ADA reference this advantage goes away.
post #212 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

Last night , I had a new movie experience , my OPPO Vanity93 (cable 1.5m , wired as Curt's direction) into my MC , volume control by MC , each channel outputs slightly trimmed by MC transformed my listening experience to a whole new height , simply , the movie is simply more exciting , dynamic increased considerably , whisper heard clearly with ease , instant attack and drop , never thought that a direct D-D makes so much difference . I now do not doubt that "edorr" once said that this arrangement may sound better than ADA Reference . Those having the facility must try this setup .

Also my problem with "wrong" channel routings have been solved , on no occasion should you alter the channel position within Input Routing , rather , it is safe to alter the Output routing

to Quote from Trinnov Support,

1. "all you have to do now is play around with the speaker routing until you get the correct sounding order."
2 "I'm glad to read you managed to get the correct routing

Well, there is a mistake in the manual then, like I said, the only situation where the correction filters are wrong is when you change the channel order of the source. I'll correct it right away."

The statement that you cannot change the Output routing in the User Manual is thus not correct .

HI Larry:

 

Yes, you can use the method described by Trinnov support, but you must Re-Calibrate after you do this in order for the system to work properly.  Therefore, you have an opportunity for even better results then you are getting!   This is because changing the Output Routing changes the relationship between calibration and speaker.  Calibration of EQ, Level, and Delay are paired to Channel Numbers.  Changing Output Routing changes this relationship, therefore new calibration is required.   For the changed routing pairs, you have switched the correction.  This may still be an improvement owning to the similarities in correction, but it is still wrong.  There are some basic routing experiments that can be used to verify this, including swapping Output routing where there are vast dis-similarities between corrections, so as to be more easily recognized for being incorrect. 

 

A Test to prove Output Routing Changes Calibration Relationship - EQ, Level, Delay

 

If your assumption holds that changing output routing has no effect, then one should be able to do the following Output Routing change without hearing a difference.  Here's a simple experiment to try.  I suggest using a CD feeding a MONO signal to both L & R.  Correct matching will then produce a strong, centered phantom image.  This can be done on the Input Routing by feeding a CD channel (typically input 1) to both L & R.  Listening,  you should hear a well defined mono image between the L & R.  

 

Leaving the Input Routing alone, now swap the physical output connections for the Subwoofer and Right Front.  Change the Output Routing to match this, so that the Right speaker now uses what was the Subwoofer's assigned Output channel.  The Right Speaker will now have the Subwoofer's compensation filter, delay and level, which is different.  Starting with a lower playback level, which you can safely increase while listening, pay attention to the phantom image from the mono CD signal.   Listening: the phantom image will be degraded, as the Right speaker will now have the Sub's EQ, delay and level correction.  There are similar tests, but the conclusion remains: if you change the Output Routing assignments, you must re-run the calibration.

 

Cheers,

post #213 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

So that would mean all you can get from a BluRay is PCM2.0, PCM5.1, and PCM7.1??? And PCM5.1 and 7.1 are not that common that I have seen.

Glimmie is correct (first part). I can now confirm that the Arvus will not decode DTS-MA nor will it pass it through on the XLR cables. You get dead silence. I think nearly every BD player can decode into PCM. The Arvus also has an HDMI pass through.

The advantage of the Arvus is that you can use it with any HDMI source (that can decode) without modification. You will need to strip the HDCP.

MSRP is $1600.
post #214 of 296
I will try Curt's suggestion to do re-calibration once I have time to spare , right now , I am enjoying my OPPOVanity93 + MC and except for lack of input switching & some HT mode flexibility , the sound outperforms my ADA Suite 1.4HD and not by a small margin . Judging from the very small expense of adding the Trinnov AES board & the Vanity93 board , it is actually a big bargain (compared to the cost of ADA Reference) . I can still get Digit-out from my MC and route the L , C & R to my audio Dacs and probably would improve the sound further .

Overall , I must say that the Trinnov MC is a marvelous machine to have and recommend to all serious in HT performance .
Cheer !
post #215 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

I will try Curt's suggestion to do re-calibration once I have time to spare , right now , I am enjoying my OPPOVanity93 + MC and except for lack of input switching & some HT mode flexibility , the sound outperforms my ADA Suite 1.4HD and not by a small margin . Judging from the very small expense of adding the Trinnov AES board & the Vanity93 board , it is actually a big bargain (compared to the cost of ADA Reference) . I can still get Digit-out from my MC and route the L , C & R to my audio Dacs and probably would improve the sound further .

Overall , I must say that the Trinnov MC is a marvelous machine to have and recommend to all serious in HT performance .
Cheer !

The forthcoming Vanity103 board will give you additional input switching through the Oppo 103 inputs.

It you rerouted your outputs, you are currently applying filters to the wrong channels, so recalibration should boost performance quite a bit.

Getting a top notch outboard DAC will further improve performance, however, make sure to use a synchronous DAC without a buffering induced delay - this will screw up time alignment between channels. I have to disengage reclocking on my outboard DAC when using it in multi channel mode for this reason.
post #216 of 296
Edorr, any DACs in particular you'd recommend that outperform Trinnov's DACs?

Edorr and/or Larry, any sense whether the Vanity 93 (actually, the 103) would be compatible with these: http://www.oppomod.com/ ? I would think better power and clocking upstream of the Vanity board would offer incremental gains, but don't know if they'd physically all fit.
post #217 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Edorr, any DACs in particular you'd recommend that outperform Trinnov's DACs?

I am using the very expensive MSB Signature Plus, but I have no idea how far up the DAC foodchain you have to go to beat the internal Trinnov DACs. I personally would just get the best outboard DAC I can afford for the mains, and not bother with the other channels. If I was strictly (or predominantly a MCH movies guy, I probably would not get an outboard DAC at all - I did this mainly to integrate a high grade two channel system with a MCH system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Edorr and/or Larry, any sense whether the Vanity 93 (actually, the 103) would be compatible with these: http://www.oppomod.com/ ? I would think better power and clocking upstream of the Vanity board would offer incremental gains, but don't know if they'd physically all fit.

The Powersupply looks exactly like Dr. Lee's linear powersupply that I have installed in my Oppo. It works fine with the Vanity93 board. I never had a chance to compare it directly with the stock PS, because I was changing out different components at the time, but for $230 you can't really go wrong.

The clock upgrade strikes me as pointless, because the Vanity93 board has its own clock and reclocks the signal.
post #218 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I am using the very expensive MSB Signature Plus, but I have no idea how far up the DAC foodchain you have to go to beat the internal Trinnov DACs. I personally would just get the best outboard DAC I can afford for the mains, and not bother with the other channels.

The clock upgrade strikes me as pointless, because the Vanity93 board has its own clock and reclocks the signal.

Those MSBs are great DACs.

I'm grappling with two alternative upgrade paths: (1) use Trinnov DACs and also use the Trinnov to actively cross my three, three-way, front speakers, in which case I'd purchase nine channels of high end amplification, or, (2) replace the Trinnov DACs with three new high end outboard DACs (like the MSBs) and skip using the Trinnov to actively cross the mains. Either way I'm looking at $30k give or take.

I've heard the clock upgrade improves the video too, so it wouldn't be entirely wasteful.
post #219 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Those MSBs are great DACs.

I'm grappling with two alternative upgrade paths: (1) use Trinnov DACs and also use the Trinnov to actively cross my three, three-way, front speakers, in which case I'd purchase nine channels of high end amplification, or, (2) replace the Trinnov DACs with three new high end outboard DACs (like the MSBs) and skip using the Trinnov to actively cross the mains. Either way I'm looking at $30k give or take.

I've heard the clock upgrade improves the video too, so it wouldn't be entirely wasteful.

When blending MSB DACs into a Trinnov based MCH system keep in mind you cannot use the MSB reclocking feature in asynchronous mode, because this caused 0.5 sec delay. May be if you have three identical MSB DACs it works again. For 30K you can buy a nice stack of the (entry level!) MSB analog DACs. For a stack of DAC IVs you need to mortgage the house or sell the Porsche.
post #220 of 296
Again , after listening to a varieties of BR contents , I come to of the following conclusion .

Despite how good the sound of direct Digi-in , it is less forgiving to bad-sounding disc , It did make some badly "recorded" music/movie very uneasy to your ear .
While through ADA-MC analogue in , you get a much pleasing sound from the same disc and overall , not feeling any loosing of important information .

Well , that is why we are still using soft lens on photography .

Cheer .
post #221 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

Again , after listening to a varieties of BR contents , I come to of the following conclusion .

Despite how good the sound of direct Digi-in , it is less forgiving to bad-sounding disc , It did make some badly "recorded" music/movie very uneasy to your ear .
While through ADA-MC analogue in , you get a much pleasing sound from the same disc and overall , not feeling any loosing of important information .

Well , that is why we are still using soft lens on photography .

Cheer .

Also time to re-calibrate the new configuration before too much critical listening.smile.gif

post #222 of 296
Just found it that it is impossible for me to do a re-calibration . I am only changing the Output routing on the "DIG In/Out" not the "ANA I/O" , thus for correct calibration on the new routing , I need to do it through the DIG I/O 1-8 connector and that is full digital in and I need a device to do microphone pre-amplification and converted to digital upstream by a "flat & phase response device" . From where I can get this device ??

I also need to ensure that the input routing & wiring of the microphone is correct and I do not even know what caused the wrong input routing from my Vanity93 board - (Audiopraise said 100% correct output configuration) or if the MC software got some problem . Trinnov said no problem from his many similar professional installations but promised to look into it .
Thus , I am stopping here . Any further advices ??

Still , very happy listening with AES in , I can completely do away with my ADA . Had suspected that OPPO not up to the standard of ADA , but now no more worry .
post #223 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

Just found it that it is impossible for me to do a re-calibration . I am only changing the Output routing on the "DIG In/Out" not the "ANA I/O" , thus for correct calibration on the new routing , I need to do it through the DIG I/O 1-8 connector and that is full digital in and I need a device to do microphone pre-amplification and converted to digital upstream by a "flat & phase response device" . From where I can get this device ??

I also need to ensure that the input routing & wiring of the microphone is correct and I do not even know what caused the wrong input routing from my Vanity93 board - (Audiopraise said 100% correct output configuration) or if the MC software got some problem . Trinnov said no problem from his many similar professional installations but promised to look into it .
Thus , I am stopping here . Any further advices ??

Still , very happy listening with AES in , I can completely do away with my ADA . Had suspected that OPPO not up to the standard of ADA , but now no more worry .

Don't understand the digi in/out ANA in/out problem. You do your calibration entirely in the analog domain (ANA I/O) - the trinnov generates a signal internally, that is output on whatever channels you are routing your speakers to and then picked up by the Mics. Switching to a digital input later makes absolutely no difference.

I don't think you should have an issue with the routing either IF during calibration the same rerouting is applied. Let's say the Vanity board sends center info to channel 6 instead of channel 4. You physically connect your center channel to channel 4, but you route input 6 to output 4 in the Trinnov. So when the Trinnov calibrates input channel 6, it calibrates the physical center channel connected to channel 4. When you play content from the Oppo, center channel content on channel 6 is mapped to channel 4, and DRC applied based on measurement of your center channel. This assumes the calibration signal send out by the Trinnov is rerouted using your mapping. Easy to find out as the Trinnov circles through the channels, and you hear what speakers your sound comes from.

One big caveat of course. If you have an additional source with correct output mapping, your vanity93 mapping based calibration is screwed up. You need to do a separate calibration for this source, and create a preset that maps channel 4 input to channel 4 output ets. You can probably use your existing calibration for this.

Hope Curt agrees with me. Good luck.
Edited by edorr - 7/18/13 at 9:37am
post #224 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

Just found it that it is impossible for me to do a re-calibration . I am only changing the Output routing on the "DIG In/Out" not the "ANA I/O" , thus for correct calibration on the new routing , I need to do it through the DIG I/O 1-8 connector and that is full digital in and I need a device to do microphone pre-amplification and converted to digital upstream by a "flat & phase response device" . From where I can get this device ??

I also need to ensure that the input routing & wiring of the microphone is correct and I do not even know what caused the wrong input routing from my Vanity93 board - (Audiopraise said 100% correct output configuration) or if the MC software got some problem . Trinnov said no problem from his many similar professional installations but promised to look into it .
Thus , I am stopping here . Any further advices ??

Still , very happy listening with AES in , I can completely do away with my ADA . Had suspected that OPPO not up to the standard of ADA , but now no more worry .

Edorr is mostly correct.  There are two issues at work here that may be confusing.

 

(1) As discussed earlier, calibration is required any time the speakers are assigned different output channels or speakers are re-configured or speaker count changed.  As you changed the output channel assignments, the new calibration is required. 

 

(3) "Sources" (input configuration), where the number of input channels, format, and channel order (ie LR,LsRs,CS or LCR,LsRs,S, etc) will not affect calibration.  However, making adjustments in the "Sources" section may require specific changes in the "Sources Routing" in order for the system to work correctly. 

 

(2) As the Oppo is a digital input, you have to switch over to he analog input to run your calibration. Once calibration is done, you can switch back to the digital input.  In the MC, this is done on the profiles page (different from the ST-Pro, where you directly switch the input matrix) and the Sources Routing.  It typically is quite straightforward to configure the Oppo digital input without making any output adjustments which then require a calibration.  I've assisted with this several times in the past.

 

 

This is an appropriate time to get consulting to both help you address the system configuration for both I/O and fine tuning of the calibration engine for your particular speakers and room.  This can be done remotely via phone/VNC.  Typical DRC users can gain substantial improvement with an expert's help.  Expert consulting would eliminate to confusion about the Oppo - MC interface.

 

Cheers,

post #225 of 296
Thanks Curt & edorr for their expert advice , I think I had better posted 4 pictures for both ANA I/O & DIGI I/O , these pictures were taken in a hurry thus hope that they would be OK for your eyes :




If I re-calibrate through ANA Input , then my first calibration is good enough , no need for a 2nd calibration except for touch up . Further advices needed !
Edited by Larry Ng - 7/18/13 at 5:28pm
post #226 of 296
Hey Edorr how's this MSB stack?


Edited by CINERAMAX - 7/29/13 at 12:13pm
post #227 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hey Edorr how's this MSB stack?


Very cool! Exactly what I was advocating for a no compromise system with no budget constraints. I presume the processor at the top of the rack is an ADA reference with digital outputs? Are the MSB DACs running in asynchronous mode (i.e. reclocking) with the galaxy clock upgrades? I have been wondering if this would work in a MCH setup. It would if the reclocking systems delay is always precisely the same for all DACs at any given sample rate.
post #228 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Very cool! Exactly what I was advocating for a no compromise system with no budget constraints. I presume the processor at the top of the rack is an ADA reference with digital outputs? Are the MSB DACs running in asynchronous mode (i.e. reclocking) with the galaxy clock upgrades? I have been wondering if this would work in a MCH setup. It would if the reclocking systems delay is always precisely the same for all DACs at any given sample rate.

Very cool indeed, but just wondering about how to handle all those pesky HDMI and other digital issues such as:

1. As edorr noted, how do you get digital out from the ADA Reference (I've heard the ADA Reference has been modified to allow digital inputs, but I haven't heard of it being modified for Digital outputs).
2. If it is a digital out from the ADA Reference, I thought there was a 16/48 limitation on digital audio out if it was an HDMI source (workaround is a modded Oppo or something that doesn't use HDMI, but that doesn't seem to be an option if main video source is the Kaleidescape player)
3. I didn't think the Teranex 2d - 3d converter worked with HDCP, do you have an HDCP stripper so that the Kaleidescape can be converted to 3D?
4. Per all the info I've seen on the Kaleidescape forum, I didn't think that the Kaleidescape player can output both high-bit rate audio (Dolby True HD/ DTS HD) and the normal DD/DTS signal that is required for D-Box. Accordingly, if you use D-Box then it seems you would lose access to HBR audio.

I'm sure you have a plan to address these issues but just commenting from what I've seen of others that have tried to get all these products to play nicely together.
post #229 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Very cool indeed, but just wondering about how to handle all those pesky HDMI and other digital issues such as:

1. As edorr noted, how do you get digital out from the ADA Reference (I've heard the ADA Reference has been modified to allow digital inputs, but I haven't heard of it being modified for Digital outputs).
2. If it is a digital out from the ADA Reference, I thought there was a 16/48 limitation on digital audio out if it was an HDMI source (workaround is a modded Oppo or something that doesn't use HDMI, but that doesn't seem to be an option if main video source is the Kaleidescape player)
3. I didn't think the Teranex 2d - 3d converter worked with HDCP, do you have an HDCP stripper so that the Kaleidescape can be converted to 3D?
4. Per all the info I've seen on the Kaleidescape forum, I didn't think that the Kaleidescape player can output both high-bit rate audio (Dolby True HD/ DTS HD) and the normal DD/DTS signal that is required for D-Box. Accordingly, if you use D-Box then it seems you would lose access to HBR audio.

I'm sure you have a plan to address these issues but just commenting from what I've seen of others that have tried to get all these products to play nicely together.

Pesky details indeed! I was assuming the ADA mod supports digital out. Don't see how to get this to work with ADA Ref any other way.

Running this with an MC8 or MC12 and modded Oppo instead of ADA reference would solve some of these issues, but at the expense of convenience and ease of use, and input switching.

If this is installed in a theater for movie playback, I would not lose any sleep over the loss in resolution of the audio (48/24 to 48/16 in 99% of the cases). The superior MSB hardware easily trumps any loss associated with lower resolution. In my estimation, no internal DAC in a SSP at any resolution will come close to what the MSB DACs will do at 48/16.
post #230 of 296
Hi Guys, Sorry to disappoint with this first system. For Saturn Moon ALBIORIX I go analog into the cinema reference; our unit does not have a 25 pin in.frown.gif

I am however designing a two chassis cinema reference system ( with 16 channel in and 32 out) where I will have 16 Dacs (4 diamonds for the front 8 channels and 12 platinum for the remainder).biggrin.gif





We will Have the MSB Transport-Dac and PS electronics match cosmetically D'antonio.
Edited by CINERAMAX - 7/29/13 at 12:36pm
post #231 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hi Guys, Sorry to disappoint with this first system. For Saturn Moon ALBIORIX I go analog into the cinema reference; our unit does not have a 25 pin in.frown.gif

I am however designing a two chassis cinema reference system ( with 16 channel in and 32 out) where I will have 16 Dacs (4 diamonds for the front 8 channels and 12 platinum for the remainder).biggrin.gif





We will Have the MSB Transport-Dac and PS electronics match cosmetically D'antonio.

But how do you get digital into the MSB DACs from ADA Reference? The "standard" reference does not have digital outs to my knowledge.
post #232 of 296
I go in analog into the Cinema Reference, that is why I apologized.smile.gif

Here is a cleaner version:

post #233 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I go in analog into the Cinema Reference, that is why I apologized.smile.gif

Here is a cleaner version:


Now I'm really confused.

So the MSB DACs provide the MCH analog input to the ADA reference?

But then how do you get a MCH input signal into the stack of MSB DACs???????
post #234 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hi Guys, Sorry to disappoint with this first system. For Saturn Moon ALBIORIX I go analog into the cinema reference; our unit does not have a 25 pin in.frown.gif

I am however designing a two chassis cinema reference system ( with 16 channel in and 32 out) where I will have 16 Dacs (4 diamonds for the front 8 channels and 12 platinum for the remainder).biggrin.gif





We will Have the MSB Transport-Dac and PS electronics match cosmetically D'antonio.

I appreciate the irony in including the word "disappoint" with those proposed designs smile.gif

That said, since cost appears to be no issue for some of your projects, it seems that your ultimate set-up would include the following key pieces (many more of course, but pointing out the digital issues that Edorr raised):

1. A surround sound processor for decoding surround sound from Kaleidescape or other sources (i.e. something the Trinnov or Immersive Audio Processor can't do)
2. Trinnov processing to "raise" the center channel sound (since you are going with speakers below the screen)
3. Separate, outboard DAC's

Based on these three requirements, it seems that the best for this set-up would be:

A. Datasat or Theta for surround sound processing (since those are the only two I know of that have digital out)
B. A Trinnov MC16 or MC32 for Trinnov processing
C. MSB Dacs

With this set-up, everything would remain in the digital domain until the DAC's, the only limitation being the 48/16 limitation that Edorr noted for hdmi inputs. Also, I would think that you would want a modded Oppo with multi-channel directly into the Trinnov (or Datasat) for the following:

1. For Blu-Ray's with higher than 48/24 resolution
2. For 3D Blu-Ray's (Kaleidescape doesn't support 3D)
3. For DVD-Audio & SACD (got to take advantage of those Wilsons!)
4. Functional with D-Box with high-bit rate audio (unless you have another solution for HBR with Kaleidescape and D-Box)
post #235 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

I appreciate the irony in including the word "disappoint" with those proposed designs smile.gif

That said, since cost appears to be no issue for some of your projects, it seems that your ultimate set-up would include the following key pieces (many more of course, but pointing out the digital issues that Edorr raised):

1. A surround sound processor for decoding surround sound from Kaleidescape or other sources (i.e. something the Trinnov or Immersive Audio Processor can't do)
2. Trinnov processing to "raise" the center channel sound (since you are going with speakers below the screen)
3. Separate, outboard DAC's

Based on these three requirements, it seems that the best for this set-up would be:

A. Datasat or Theta for surround sound processing (since those are the only two I know of that have digital out)
B. A Trinnov MC16 or MC32 for Trinnov processing
C. MSB Dacs

With this set-up, everything would remain in the digital domain until the DAC's, the only limitation being the 48/16 limitation that Edorr noted for hdmi inputs. Also, I would think that you would want a modded Oppo with multi-channel directly into the Trinnov (or Datasat) for the following:

1. For Blu-Ray's with higher than 48/24 resolution
2. For 3D Blu-Ray's (Kaleidescape doesn't support 3D)
3. For DVD-Audio & SACD (got to take advantage of those Wilsons!)
4. Functional with D-Box with high-bit rate audio (unless you have another solution for HBR with Kaleidescape and D-Box)

I think you have all the right ideas. I still don't understand the signal path with the current setup and stack of MSB dacs.
post #236 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Now I'm really confused.

So the MSB DACs provide the MCH analog input to the ADA reference?

But then how do you get a MCH input signal into the stack of MSB DACs???????

The MSB transports UMT+ and UMT 3dI (so) have spdif outs that go into the dacs. Then they go analog.into the cinema reference.

The Bdp-93 based player is dedicated to playing files from the custom usb Nasses. Instead of using plugging in USB Hubs "the hub" is hardwired using Audioquest Diamond USB silver wire.







post #237 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

The MSB transports UMT+ and UMT 3dI (so) have spdif outs that go into the dacs. Then they go analog.into the cinema reference.

The Bdp-93 based player is dedicated to playing files from the custom usb Nasses. Instead of using plugging in USB Hubs "the hub" is hardwired using Audioquest Diamond USB silver wire.

Okay, I follow the signal path now, but I'm not necessarily understanding the total package. If the signal goes into the Cinema reference in analog, then the reference will do an A/D conversion for the Trinnov processing, and then do another D/A conversion before going to the amps. Accordingly, I think any benefit of the superior MSB dacs is then lost since the Trinnov dacs will be used (not that the Trinnov dacs are bad, just not as high-end as MSB).

Putting the MSB dacs on the back end of a processor makes a lot of sense, but putting them on the front-end doesn't seem to add much value. Specifically, I don't see how doing a D/A conversion (albeit from an MSB dac first) and then a A/D conversion in the Reference will give you any better quality than just HDMI into the Reference.
post #238 of 296
Thanks a million Sipester for your thought provoking commentary, it is dead on, I spent and hour reviewing the process by which you can access the analog bypass with Curt Hoyt connected on line to the ALBIORIX Cinema Reference in it's last 10 days of pre-configuration before shipping to it's exotic foreign capital designation. I gathered some insight why I believe it is a small 100k gamble that bypassing the hdmi 48K limitation with big mother up-sampling guns and through the excellent resolution of the Trinov adc that that approach will sound more "analog" audiophilicly speaking .

Regarding the first post, I am in the process of consolidating my installation plan and am working 18 hours a day , give me a few days to address those. Weighing the merit of overeaching in the analog input department is fresher in my mind after today's Curt session.

But before that! Let me give a shout out to ADA and tell them HOW WELL BUILT THIS C"ksker is.biggrin.gif

Here are my to-do notes for the Albiorix installation plan's preparation: smile.gif



And here is the test system:











Here we augment the level of information delivered realtime by the d-box system by ripping out

a plate on the back of the controller and connecting via vga kvm to the (obligatory moon of Saturn remote server) touchscreen pc

this information not only complements feedback but greatly expands status visibility range (iow you are not standing there like an idiot waiting

for the thing to boot, sometimes not knowing if it is booting or not... so it is a great improvement not only a bell and whistle but more reliable...



The D-box system is fantastic, ours was disconnected for a year and what rapturous re-acquaintance t'was...



And of course don't tell d-box but being reclined like so gives you a motion experience thrice superior to the kino d-box offing.cool.gifcool.gifcool.gif



In a home cinema universe awash with creepy-cracker reposes, the Bruges High Back contend

for best in the traditional-eclectic camp, more comfortable than the Strato to be sure...

... although my Patron prefers the style of the later, which we continue to develop going from this:



and then adding 4" of extra headrest cushion (see thriangular protraction of the original design)



which resulted in this...



Better looking.... No?

These Hellemans brothers better give me more credit for these on their promotional materiel.biggrin.gif;)tongue.gif

Because we still did not have enough headrest support so we made a cushion... heres the proto







and the final dimensions fitted for the oligarch.biggrin.gif:D:D



But the next generation is being improved because the cushions deploy out from inside the erecting headrest

automation from within automation and to boot with air conditioned ventilation and heating,



and Ipad mini per chair, with food and beverage ordering system, and codesigned by ZHA








Which is going in the top floor of this building (seen in Movie Darkest Hour-Act 1):








Edited by CINERAMAX - 7/29/13 at 11:23pm
post #239 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Thanks a million Sipester for your thought provoking commentary, it is dead on, I spent and hour reviewing the process by which you can access the analog bypass with Curt Hoyt connected on line to the ALBIORIX Cinema Reference in it's last 10 days of pre-configuration before shipping to it's exotic foreign capital designation. I gathered some insight why I believe it is a small 100k gamble that bypassing the hdmi 48K limitation with big mother up-sampling guns and through the excellent resolution of the Trinov adc that that approach will sound more "analog" audiophilicly speaking .

Regarding the first post, I am in the process of consolidating my installation plan and am working 18 hours a day , give me a few days to address those. Weighing the merit of overeaching in the analog input department is fresher in my mind after today's Curt session.

But before that! Let me give a shout out to ADA and tell them HOW WELL BUILT THIS C"ksker is.biggrin.gif

I believe Sipester is spot on with his observations. Using $150K worth of DACs to feed the ADA Ref analog and then have the Trinnov DACs at the end of the chain makes no sense. You will listen to the analog output stage, volume control and D/A conversion of the Trinnov, which - with all due respect to the excellent Trinnov hardware, is not of the same caliber as the MSBs. The only way to realize the benefits of the MSB Dac is to put them at the end of the chain, which means you either need to (1) get ADA/Trinnov to stick a digital output card in the Reference (if possible), (2) use an MC12 / MC16 instead. .

The good news is, I had no idea the MSB UTM has 3x S/DIF and 1x AES/EBU digital outputs. Does this output:
(1) LPCM downsampled to 48/16 for copyright protected HDMI sources?
(2) Encrypted LPCM that only works with MSB DACs?
(3) LPCM full resolution for all sources? (I thought this would be in violation of the HDMI license!)

If the answer is 3, the MSB UMT is the functional equivalent of the modded Oppo with digital outputs board and you're all set. If the answer is (2), it is useless for use as a source for Trinnov, if it is (1) you can use it, with its bandwidth limitations.

In my view, the two best options:
(1) get the ADA Ref with digital input board and run the MSB UMT (or a modded Oppo) digitally, and If you can get a digital output board for the ADA Ref, use the MSB Stack.
(2) Get an MC12/MC16, run the MSB UMT or a modded Oppo into it and run digital out into the MSB DACs

Option (2) also gives you the option to use the MSB volume controls instead of the digital Trinnov VC. The Trinnov will effectively trim channel levels during calibration. All you need next is get all the DACs on RS232 and send volume up/down command to all DACs with a macro (could be programmed in iRule).
post #240 of 296
Hi Edorr, I'll look at adding the 25 pin input card to the ADA.


The UMT's shown above are Oppos BDP103 and 93 that are stripped completely bare.

I am looking for oppo performance but with superior reliability, therefore I need the best power supplies, and I need the mechanical isolation the MSB housing provides.

I will heed your advice then and go to the lesser dacs from MSB namely the PLATINUM DACS. But I will preserve the Diamond Power supplies.

Thanks for the advice guys.

In the Europa system we will require digital in out from the Reference.
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