Needhelp: Plasma buzzing (Panasonic ST50) - When is it not acceptabel? - Page 3

If you guys call Panasonic and the guy comes over and can hear the buzz from 12 feet away he is going to look at you and say "OK, well, what's the problem?". There is no panel lottery gents, there is good hearing. THEY ALL BUZZ during bright scenes. When Panasonic gets the returns back they just recirculate them because they don't see it as an issue. You think they are losing sleep over some guy flipping 8 panels back to best buy? They don't, trust me. It's a shame you've got guys out there claiming the buzz at 12ft is a "defect" because it's just giving false hope to guys who have one shipping from Amazon that day that they might get a silent one. Sorry to break your hearts but they all buzz.

Oh I forgot to mention, I watched Alien and Avengers last night and didn't hear any buzz the whole time. Just disgustingly good quality and insane blacks with my VT. The panel is top shelf, if it was silent it would be as good as it gets.

Double post

Yes, they all buzz but to different degrees. I've personally heard different panels buzz differently.

When I watched Alien Resurrection, I didn't hear mine buzz either. But that's only because the whole movie is void of any quiet bright scenes.

Well, none of the VT50 series is out of warranty. But if I'm going to call for service, it'd be helpful to know which part might be the troublesome one so I can try to arrange a relevant repair call.

Anyone know? (Besides the screws, of course.)

You are just plain wrong. For some reason you continue to completely ignore the many people here who have either had their buzzers fixed successfully or had them replaced by one that doesn't buzz, proving that they're not supposed to buzz. My good friend was one of them, and his replacement TV is virtually silent from 2 feet away. And the majority of us have virtually silent Plasmas and there is nothing wrong with our hearing. You can't possibly be that ignorant.

I'm starting to think you don't really have a 2012 Panasonic Plasma and are just trolling.

Nope, my hearing is just fine. I've heard buzzing Plasmas before so i know what one sounds like, but 3 of my 4 Plasmas are quiet. I've installed over a dozen of them for other people over the years in addition to my own and have been in other homes with Plasmas and i've only encountered a few that buzzed excessively. I can hear buzzing farther away than most of my friends and relatives can when we've tested it.

So by your reasoning, the 65% of responders in the GT50 Buzzing poll below who report no buzzing from their viewing position all have poor hearing?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415500/panasonic-gt50-buzzing-poll

No, just you. Besides, I don't care about the GT. I own a VT and I bought my pop a ST for Christmas. He probably won't hear any buzzing though, he's older too.

Well, to get a broader perspective on the buzzing, I spent some time looking at the Amazon reviews of the ST50. At the time, there were just over 300 reviews and of these 48 mentioned buzzing. 25 of them reported buzzing that is similar to my (and that of others in this thread) experience. Here's a typical description

" Buzzing. I have had issues with buzzing...unfortunately. It's most noticeable for example if I'm watching a 480i video, not high-def, and something bright is being shown. A candle, the sun, etc. A very standard TV buzz sound emits from the screen. It's annoying. If I crank the volume above a quiet, night-time volume I normally use it's not noticeable, which may give you an idea of how loud the buzz is. It's not too loud, but noticeable nonetheless at quiet TV volumes or at any volume if there's no audio coming from the video to hide the buzz noise.
I sit approximately 9 feet from the TV set."

On the other hand, the other reviews either say they don't hear buzz/buzz is only heard when very close to TV or they don't mention buzz at all. Here's a couple of typical examples of a review that says buzz in negligible:

" I sit anywhere from 3 feet (when playing FIFA on the Xbox) to 12 feet (when watching movies) away.
Under any normal circumstances, I hear no buzz at all. In order to pick up any hint of a buzz, I have to mute the television and either (1) place my head within one foot of the screen, or (2) stand behind the set. Just about every plasma in the universe will do the same. I've not had to "tune anything out" or "learn to ignore" any noise. I just don't hear it (and my hearing is fine)."

"No buzz on my ST50. Its dead quiet unless you put your ear BEHIND the tv and listen during an all white picture. I don't suggest watching TV behind the unit. It seems plasma buzz varies unit to unit."

Based on my research, and having listened to a couple of TVs at a store, i am not willing to accept a TV whose buzz can be heard from 12 feet away.

A little update on my situation... I'm on my second GT50, which intrusively buzzes the same as the first unit that I had exchanged. Instead of blindly exchanging this second one, I decided to contact Panasonic to get a tech to come out and take a look. While I can't believe that what I'm hearing is considered "normal" operation, it does me no good to keep exchanging units if it's unlikely I'll be graced with a quiet one.

After Panasonic dispatched the work order to a local TV repair company, someone from the TV repair shop called me to discuss the issue so that he could get some parts on order before he comes to take a look. I explained the buzzing and he asked if it was dependent on the screen image/brightness, and I replied yes. He seemed to be aware of this issue and commented that it was a manufacturing defect and was optimistic he could fix the problem. I don't know which specific parts he was going to order, but I'm hoping to hear back from him soon to schedule the specific service date. For the first time I feel like I might be approaching a resolution. If the tech is unable to cure the issue, I might try one more exchange or perhaps be done with PDPs.

This also goes to show that there are techs that may be more competent/experienced with servicing PDPs with a buzzing defect. I honestly thought I was going to hear from him "hmm, I haven't heard of this issue before, as all plasmas exhibit some buzzing." Thankfully that was not the case, and I'll keep everyone posted on how this plays out.

Boy you give up too easily. The retailer knows that your TV is defective and they DO NOT WANT IT BACK because they'll be stuck with a defective TV and have to go through the RGA process with Panasonic or their distributor. RGAs are a pain in the ass. Since they don't have a good return policy (making you pay return shipping) then they may not even be an authorized Panasonic reseller and may not qualify to return the defective unit to Panasonic for credit. Making you pay shipping is one way to dissuade you from returning it to them. This is why it's so important to test for buzzing while the delivery driver is still there - so you can refuse the TV if it buzzes or has some other problem.

When the service technician arrives, explain to him in no uncertain terms that no TV should have an audible buzz from 12 feet or even 3 feet for that matter and that it is unacceptable. If he tries to tell you it's normal, dispute it and insist he diagnose the problem or get another more knowledgeable technician over to find the source of the buzzing. It should not buzz abnormally loud, period. Re-read this thread (ignoring the trolling posts of course) and do more research about the buzzing issue. I would print out all the posts and reviews about buzzing and highlight the parts that back up the fact that there are non-buzzers and that excessive buzzing is not normal.


Here's something i posted not too long ago - you can perform this test yourself.....

"Right now i'm displaying the "whitest" slide show image on my 50GT50 in a silent room and i cannot hear any buzzing with my face a foot from the screen, but i can hear the fan on my Tivo below it and also the fan on my PC that's 15 feet away from the TV, and i can hear the fridge humming in the kitchen well beyond that. But i cannot hear any buzzing with my nose almost against the screen. When i put my head behind the TV then i can hear a little mosquito buzz from inside, but nothing from in front. This is what i consider to be normal operation, albeit on the better side of the range."


And a few hours ago we got woke up about 4am (friggin loud racoon vs cat fight right outside our bedroom window) and after i broke that up i was now wide awake so i took the opportunity to repeat the above test but this time in total 4:30am silence. My PC was off and i turned my AVR off then i brought up my brightest break-in images and brightest HD wallpaper images and put the TV into VIVID mode at 100% Contrast and when i hook my ear over the top rear of the cabinet i can hear the low level buzzing from inside. As soon as i move my ear to the front the buzzing greatly diminishes and by the time i'm a foot away from the screen i hear nothing. Zero. I sat there in silence and strain to hear the buzz but it's completely silent. All the while i am able to hear the quiet whirr of the fans on my Tivo and TWC DVR in the credenza below the TV, but nothing from the TV. When i repeat this test in Custom mode at 85% Contrast and Panel Brightness set to Mid the TV is actually a little quieter.

Maybe my GT50 is abnormally quiet, but it's a teensy bit quieter than my G10 in a bedroom which i can't hear beyond a few feet. My old 2005 42PX50U in the den has been getting louder over the years and we can hear it buzz from about 5 feet away on very bright scenes but not at all at our 10 foot viewing distance. This is by far the loudest of my four Plasmas, yet it cannot be heard from the couch by anybody in the family or any of our friends".

My 1st 65GT50 from BB buzzed, it had an April2012 sticker on the back. BB swapped it out yesterday for another one (July2012 sticker) and this one is quiet.

My first one was quiet with regular cable TV when using HDMI-1 but when I tried using the XBOX on HDMI-4, I could hear a buzzing from 8 feet away when showing mostly white screens. The buzz was even more noticeable when I went to shut down the XBOX (hold down center button on controller) and the white confirmation box popped up. With the new one, no buzzing on XBOX shut down!

If buzzing was normal, you would also hear buzzing on all the plasmas in the showrooms.

The buzzing is caused by the coils on the inside of a TV but does not indicate a defective TV in most cases. Coil noise has plagued the graphics card industry for quit a while and Asus uses solid core chokes (coils) instead of open air chokes in their top end graphics card to reduce the vibration. Chokes vibrate all the time. It's just that they can vibrate at an audible frequency when you put a lot of power through them. Compound that with a loose screw and the noise can become louder. Most times they glob some high temperature glue on the coil to quite them down and overtime this glue can deteriorate. I bet if I put a white slide on my TV long enough, I could probably weaken that glue enough to make it buzz louder.

Some people just have better high frequency hearing too. The older you get, the less sensitive we are to high frequency noise in general. On Cinema, I can here my fans and a slight (slight to me) buzzing sound when I have a white screen from 10 feet away. During normal viewing I hear a very faint buzz. I don't think its good for a TV and it's not designed to watch a bright white screen for very long. Granted the ABL kicks in and limits the power but basically you're maxing out your TV. It's like flooring your car and letting it bounce of the rev limiter. I don't think it's really good for a TV to sit there maxed out for very long. Short duration sure.

The repair guy saying that it's "a known factory defect" sounds fishy to me. I would question his motives without seeing a Panasonic service bulletin stating such.

Here is some reading on coil noise that may be more informative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_noise

The quieter TVs may very well have had a little better glue job done on them.
Edited by Donat76 - 12/17/12 at 12:37pm

Here is another thread in another forum that has an email response form Panasonic about the buzzing.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/1262258-post1.html

I received my 50ST50 from Future Shop on Saturday (Build date October 2012). Everything is great picture-wise, but it is buzzing noticeably. I'm sitting about 10 feet away and this was all with the sound on. When I put my head behind the set it seems to be coming from the upper right and left areas of the panel.

I noticed it on scenes where it is mostly light, like a man canoeing under a gray sky with gray water while a narrator talks... or a man talking in front of a gray brick wall. I also ran the slides which have no sound, and there was a buzz for all the slides but it was noticeably louder on the lighter slides.

The thing that killed it for me is that I have a habit of turning on the news while getting ready in the morning, and the splash screens that transition between news segments are pretty white and I could hear buzzing for all those even with talking or theme music playing (volume set from 5 to 11).

I was hoping to watch lots of hockey so I think I’ll need to exchange it. No NHL, but the World Juniors are coming up… so I’ll get it exchanged and see what the next one is like.
Edited by larvaboy - 12/17/12 at 1:34pm

You won't hear it during hockey man. The crowd noise will block it out. But if you hit mute I bet you'll think the thing is deep frying wings.

I have heard the panasonics buzz but recently tried a Samsung 64e8000 and it takes buzzing to a new level. Thought I could live with it by adjusting mount position but need to return it. It shoots out of the front of the screen and is highly directional. No way I could point the plasma directly at me cause it really sounds like a bug zapper/ large power transformer/ swarm of bees in the room. I was surprised when I turned it on how loud it was. Samsung says it isn't a problem unless you can hear it over a tv volume if 15 which is pretty darn high really. Just thought I would add this even though this is a Panasonic thread.

A paper towel roll held up to your ear can help pinpoint the exact location of the buzzing better then without. Just a trick I learned hunting down odd noises in computers. If you can find the location of the buzzing and then look up the service manual, it may give you a better idea. I used to fix noisy coils with some high temperature glue (not the regular glue gun glue.) I wouldn't do it while under warranty though.

I guess I'm used to all the ringing in my ears because after a while, I can tune out the buzzing. The more you pay attention to it, the louder it seems to get. Mine doesn't buzz too bad but I can definitely hear it and the fans. Not a deal breaker.

Thanks, cmay. My set was built in November 2012, so it has the new screws. I really like the panel and it has no other defects that I've noticed so far, so I'm going to try to live with it and see how much the occasional buzzing bothers me. I sometimes also hear the fans, and this bothers me more (so far). But I will live with it a bit.

Thanks, Randy. I don't think the buzzing is from the upper left corner. It seems to be from the panel as a whole, coming through the fan grilles - but I will give it a better listen. I will try Donat76's method of using a paper towel tube to pinpoint the location. Also I will listen for front vs. rear of the panel, and dead center vs. off to the sides. I have 60 days to return the set, but don't want to get to a point where Best Buy runs out of new panels. I guess if worst came to worst I could go back to my 50PZ800U for a couple months while waiting for the 2013s. But I really like this unit on the whole, and am wary of getting another that has a defect I'll notice more often.

I use a mechanic's stethoscope to help identify noises on cars or whatever, but when i don't have that around i place the handle of a screwdriver against my ear then touch the tip of a screwdriver against the area i want to listen to and it transmits the noise kinda like a stethoscope does. This should work to pinpoint the location of buzzing on a Plasma. Look through the vent holes and locate the various PCB boards, the place the screwdriver tip in that area and listen through the handle.

If it's the panel itself that's buzzing it will usually emit a "beam" of sound from the center of the panel, kinda like a speaker. Try sitting directly in front of the screen and if the buzzing gets louder as you get dead center in front of the screen but greatly diminishes when you move off to the side, then the panel is bad and will have to be replaced, or get the whole TV replaced. If it's one of the replaceable boards or the power supply then usually swapping a new one in solves the problem, unless the new board also contains a defect (that's happened many times). Some technicians are pretty good at pinpointing the location of the offending component, but some don't know how to diagnose it and just give up and claim that it's normal to hear buzzing at 10 feet. This was rampant in the various Samsung buzzing threads from a few years ago and the technicians were hit and miss. If it was the panel that was bad, Samsung started claiming that it's normal to hear it buzzing at 15 feet despite so many owners having quiet sets, and were refusing warranty work unless the cases got escalated.


Panasonic has ended production of the 2012 models so whatever is left in the supply chain is the end of them, and inventory is drying up earlier this year than it did last year so don't wait too long.
Edited by RandyWalters - 12/18/12 at 6:06am

For those who are concerned about buzzing but are not quite sure if something needs to be done, I truly recommend putting a copy of Ice Age 3 in and testing your tolerance level. The beginning of the movie is very white and bright and if the buzzing is too distracting with this movie, then you may want to consider an exchange. If it is not too distracting, then you should be ok since this movie will make a plasma buzz more so than any other movie out there right now.

I bought a 65ST50 and it buzzed a lot. I had a technician come out and he told me it was normal, but he tightened the screws inside the TV anyways.

This did not fix the problem so I ended up exchanging the TV. The new one has arrived and it is nearly silent. I can hear the slightest buzzing on pure white screens from 12 feet away now, but I have to mute the TV and really listen for it.

On the first TV, the sound was audible enough that it was noticeable during quiet scenes of a show. I'm glad I did the exchange.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's encouraging to hear it. I had the same experience with the technician (I think they are all told to try tightening the screws no matter what). Hopefully, my 2nd exchange produces the same result as yours.

So basically you're lucky if you get a quiet one.

No. You're unlucky if you get a noisy one. Big difference.

The vast majority of these TVs are quiet and operating normally, only a few percent of them are defective.

3 out of 3 is not a few percent.

That's right. It's 100%. 100% Bad Luck

On the other hand, about 97% of us have 100% Good Luck

Well, my replacement 65ES8000 which was replacing the 65VT50, which was replacing a 65VT50 also, had dead pixels upon arrival. That makes 3 out of 4 replacement sets (2 65VT50s, 1 65ES8000) with dead pixels out of the box. Considering how rare dead pixels are supposed to be, getting 3 out of 3 buzzers sounds possible to me.... and I can second Randy's notion that there are extremely quiet pannys as of the 4 pannys I went through... one was super loud, two were what I considered normal, and the last one was virtually silent, so from someone with the worst dead pixel luck EVER, I can tell you that the Pannys buzzing should not be heard to the point of distraction from 10ft away volume or no volume after having 4 of them over a span of 4 months.