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Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 8

post #211 of 646
1/16/13 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Guys, I have it up and running!
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post #212 of 646
1/17/13 at 2:33pm
All-righty then --

Got the bass issue fixed! And of course as I suspected it was a stupid setting I had wrong.

The RS20 bass management handles the LFE signals differently that I have experienced before -- To my recollection, all my previous machines sent the LFE signal to the subs no matter whether I set the speakers to large or small. Not so here -- I had the surrounds set to small, but the mains to large as that is what they are, and I had done the same previously with about 1 dozen different boxes from different manufacturers. Turns out with the RS20i you need to set them all to small to get the LFE signal from the fronts to go to the subs. Not saying it's wrong, just completely different that I have ever done before, and totally unexpected.

Bottom line is I now have the deep rumblies, and overall it sounds pretty fabulous with the Datasat 7.1 trailer. I'll get to watch a 90 minute movie or two over the weekend and really give it a shakedown then.

Love love love the box, but the set up can be a major PITA. I did end up ordering an analog audio cable for my Oppo 105 too -- I thought I haven't tortured myself enough so might as well experiment and see if analog audio adds anything tangible over the simplicity of HDMI

Next up on the list of to-do's is finalizing the iRule remote stuff
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post #213 of 646
1/17/13 at 4:32pm
Dave,

How is your room doing? Did you get all of those subs tuned up??

How did you end up configuring them?
_______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #214 of 646
1/17/13 at 4:34pm
Great news Mike - will be interested in hearing the results of the Oppo 'experiment' to see if you notice any audible difference.
Edited by stephenbr - 1/17/13 at 4:41pm
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post #215 of 646
1/17/13 at 4:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

All-righty then --

Got the bass issue fixed! And of course as I suspected it was a stupid setting I had wrong.

The RS20 bass management handles the LFE signals differently that I have experienced before -- To my recollection, all my previous machines sent the LFE signal to the subs no matter whether I set the speakers to large or small. Not so here -- I had the surrounds set to small, but the mains to large as that is what they are, and I had done the same previously with about 1 dozen different boxes from different manufacturers. Turns out with the RS20i you need to set them all to small to get the LFE signal from the fronts to go to the subs. Not saying it's wrong, just completely different that I have ever done before, and totally unexpected.

Bottom line is I now have the deep rumblies, and overall it sounds pretty fabulous with the Datasat 7.1 trailer. I'll get to watch a 90 minute movie or two over the weekend and really give it a shakedown then.

Love love love the box, but the set up can be a major PITA. I did end up ordering an analog audio cable for my Oppo 105 too -- I thought I haven't tortured myself enough so might as well experiment and see if analog audio adds anything tangible over the simplicity of HDMI

Next up on the list of to-do's is finalizing the iRule remote stuff
Great stuff. Did not even think to ask you that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Dave,

How is your room doing? Did you get all of those subs tuned up??

How did you end up configuring them?
_______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Hey Carl, I have been tinkering away trying to get the best out of the subs. Still not quite there yet, but EQ'ing them as a single entity seems to produce the best results so far. Still, I will report back when I have finished it to the best of my abilities.

Thanks Carl.
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post #216 of 646
1/17/13 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Turns out with the RS20i you need to set them all to small to get the LFE signal from the fronts to go to the subs.

Do you mean the LP (low pass) signal? LFE would not go to large speakers unless you do not have an LFE sub.

I use large fronts and small sides and rears and do not have any trouble with the LFE signal going to the LFE subs.
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post #217 of 646
1/17/13 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

Do you mean the LP (low pass) signal? LFE would not go to large speakers unless you do not have an LFE sub.

I use large fronts and small sides and rears and do not have any trouble with the LFE signal going to the LFE subs.

That is only with Base management turned on. If you disable the base management you can set up the crossovers, low/high pass filters to what ever you want in setup of the dirac filters or directly in the RS20i. That way you can have the fronts set to large (It not called large when you do it it this way within the RS20i, seeming as large is just another name for allowing LFE into the mains below the LFE Xover it makes no difference) and the rears set to the LFE Xover of the LFE channel. I hope that made sense. Or did I misinterpret what you are saying here?

I am actually starting wonder what all the fuss is about Base management now, when I always thought it was very important to have, the only advantage I can see is that if you had 4 subs in the 4 corners of your room and wanted the front and rear LFE content to be directed to them.
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post #218 of 646
1/17/13 at 9:33pm
Doesn't bass management mean though that you do not lose any signals below your crossover on a particular channel as those signals would be re-directed to your subwoofers?
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post #219 of 646
1/17/13 at 11:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

Doesn't bass management mean though that you do not lose any signals below your crossover on a particular channel as those signals would be re-directed to your subwoofers?

Are you saying that the LFE or 0.1 channels content + the content from the other channels are mixed into the LFE channel ,so as you don't lose any content?

I always thought that is what happened regardless of the base management on or off, meaning that where ever you set your Xovers any content on any of the channels is automatically mixed into the LFE channel???
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post #220 of 646
1/18/13 at 1:18am
Dave - that was what I meant and was how I thought it worked and why bass management was important. But I could be wrong and your understanding could be right - others a lot more knowledgeable can hopefully clarify.
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post #221 of 646
1/18/13 at 3:31am
Bass management is the system that does that redirecting for you; otherwise it would be lost. The channels are full-range, and if you have small satellites tha bass management system redirects and sums the bass from the high pass channels and sends it to the subwoofer channel with LFE info.

If you turn off bass management, you have 7 full range plus LFE only headed to the sub.
Turn it on and you can redirect that lower octave full range info from whatever channels necessary to the sub, summed with the LFE info.

Dan
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post #222 of 646
1/18/13 at 7:24am
My understanding has always been that the ".1" of the 5.1 or 7.1 etc. referred to a separate audio track of low frequency signals that was embedded in the overall audio output. That would be sent to the subs regardless of any other bass settings that you might want to institute.

In addition, bass management would allow you to control bass signals beyond the .1 track, and steer/control them as you wish, as my past experience with boxes from Lexicon, Sunfire, Anthem, Marantz, Yamaha, Sony, and Pioneer -- Hence my complete surprise that the RS20i does not do it the same way I always have.

This seems to be another instance where the manual is lacking for those of us without a trained dealer doing the install.
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post #223 of 646
1/18/13 at 7:49am
Is this where I post:

Trained dealer; have Dirac kit, will travel.

???
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post #224 of 646
1/18/13 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

My understanding has always been that the ".1" of the 5.1 or 7.1 etc. referred to a separate audio track of low frequency signals that was embedded in the overall audio output. That would be sent to the subs regardless of any other bass settings that you might want to institute.

Not sure if there is an "official" standard, but the "X.X" format is used both in reference to a audio recording/mix (i.e. 5.1 is six discrete channels, including 1 LFE channel, 4.0 is 4 discrete channels etc) AND in reference to a system (e.g . a 7.2 system is 9 discrete channels, including 2 subs, 5.0 is five channels no sub).
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post #225 of 646
1/18/13 at 9:02am
In a nutshell ...

Bass Management (or BM) was invented years ago by Dolby. It was intended as a way to reproduce the lowest octaves in film soundtracks played at home. At the time most home loudspeakers ran out of gas by 60Hz to 80Hz. That often still is the case. The BM scheme was to mix the unreproduced lows from the main channels along with a new specialty LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel to a specialized subwoofer. When properly configured the result was a new and full range audio experience. The 'small' and 'large' are about describing the low end capabilities of your loudspeakers.

If your mains can reliably reach down to 30Hz a valid argument can be made that you don't need Bass Management. Your stock channels along with an appropriate subwoofer (or subwoofers in Dave's case) to handle the LFE channel should work very well for you.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #226 of 646
1/18/13 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Is this where I post:

Trained dealer; have Dirac kit, will travel.

???

Just let me know when you are next in Melbourne Dan!
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post #227 of 646
1/18/13 at 2:27pm
I can book it whenever you'd like to fly-me down smile.gif

Though, you might want to get a couple other folks together for calibrations to split-up the travel costs.

Considering how many people are having Dirac challenges and how few people there are to do the calibrations, why not do a Dirac tour?

Dan
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post #228 of 646
1/18/13 at 6:53pm
Thread Starter 
How many RS20i owners are there in Australia?

@Carl,my speakers(both mains and surrounds)are +/- 3db down to 35hz,the mains go a bit lower. It may be worth my while to try a setup with no base management?
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post #229 of 646
1/18/13 at 7:05pm
It would be good to hear if there were other Aussies with the RS20i - I would suggest Dan shouldn't book anything out in his diary, it might be a while before there are enough of us to cover his flight costs!
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post #230 of 646
1/18/13 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

How many RS20i owners are there in Australia?

@Carl,my speakers(both mains and surrounds)are +/- 3db down to 35hz,the mains go a bit lower. It may be worth my while to try a setup with no base management?

I'd try it. Why not? You are almost there. To run without BM you would ...

First capture all of your setting to a thumb drive so that you can roll everything back should this not work out. Then ...

#1) Turn off Bass Management
#2) Copy all subwoofer channels from channel 4
#3) Adjust your levels with an SLM

And give it a listen. You might be happily surprised.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #231 of 646
1/18/13 at 9:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

I'd try it. Why not? You are almost there. To run without BM you would ...

First capture all of your setting to a thumb drive so that you can roll everything back should this not work out. Then ...

#1) Turn off Bass Management
#2) Copy all subwoofer channels from channel 4
#3) Adjust your levels with an SLM

And give it a listen. You might be happily surprised.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

What I was going to do was load a file I saved of the measurements I made a while back. When I did that I EQ'ed the subs as a single entity, so I would keep all subs on the channel 4 and applying the LP filter at 75hz. Then Apply the HP filter to all other channels at 35hz.. How does that sound?
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post #232 of 646
1/18/13 at 9:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

It would be good to hear if there were other Aussies with the RS20i - I would suggest Dan shouldn't book anything out in his diary, it might be a while before there are enough of us to cover his flight costs!
Stephen, you maybe the only one ATM???
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post #233 of 646
1/18/13 at 9:47pm
I could be the only Aussie owner at the moment - on our local forum no one else has posted indicating they have one. A few months back I took my unit across to a another local forum member (he has a full Seaton set up) so he could compare the RS20i to his current Anthem d2v - he was impressed, even without being able to run Dirac at that point and was thinking of upgrading but as of yet I don't think he has taken his interest any further.
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post #234 of 646
1/18/13 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

What I was going to do was load a file I saved of the measurements I made a while back. When I did that I EQ'ed the subs as a single entity, so I would keep all subs on the channel 4 and applying the LP filter at 75hz. Then Apply the HP filter to all other channels at 35hz.. How does that sound?

That sounds good. The only thing I might do would be to drop your HP filters on all channel to 25Hz rather than the described 35Hz. Let us know how it sounds. You may find it more accurate.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #235 of 646
1/19/13 at 12:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

I could be the only Aussie owner at the moment - on our local forum no one else has posted indicating they have one. A few months back I took my unit across to a another local forum member (he has a full Seaton set up) so he could compare the RS20i to his current Anthem d2v - he was impressed, even without being able to run Dirac at that point and was thinking of upgrading but as of yet I don't think he has taken his interest any further.

Was that Macca?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

That sounds good. The only thing I might do would be to drop your HP filters on all channel to 25Hz rather than the described 35Hz. Let us know how it sounds. You may find it more accurate.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Wow Carl, I just listened to both setups back to back and the difference is rather big. The setup without the Base management wins clearly here. All along I felt as though I was missing something around the 40 to 80hz mark. The way you descrbed to setup it up allows a seamless blend from the mains to the subs. I might give this a try and EQ each sub individually and see how it sounds.

BTW, I am rolling off at 6db, but I will see how setting the HP @ 25hz sounds like.

I just watched the pod emerging scene in WOTW's and all I can say is, I love my sound system!!! Everything is so effortless and the base literally shakes the room, my skin feels as though it is being massaged and I get a tiggling feeling all through my skin. I just wish I could share this with someone who appreciates this kind of sound. My wife hates it, she would rather listen to 15 watt specials.

Anyway, I am having a lot of fun now, since I have worked out how to set this stuff up. Thanks again Carl for you continued support.
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post #236 of 646
1/19/13 at 12:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

How many RS20i owners are there in Australia?

@Carl,my speakers(both mains and surrounds)are +/- 3db down to 35hz,the mains go a bit lower. It may be worth my while to try a setup with no base management?

Gee..what speakers do you have? 35 Hz is low..real low
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post #237 of 646
1/19/13 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

I could be the only Aussie owner at the moment - on our local forum no one else has posted indicating they have one. A few months back I took my unit across to a another local forum member (he has a full Seaton set up) so he could compare the RS20i to his current Anthem d2v - he was impressed, even without being able to run Dirac at that point and was thinking of upgrading but as of yet I don't think he has taken his interest any further.

I am not surprised...I don't think that they are many owners...I was interested but the price "down under" is high in the sky..unreachable for many...$ 25,000
My dealer has it installed in Brisbane but I think is intended more for commercial and "no cost objections" clients...Not me! I'll put up a bit longer with my Rhapsody...
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post #238 of 646
1/19/13 at 2:08am
Dave - it was BladeRnR.
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post #239 of 646
1/19/13 at 2:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

Dave - it was BladeRnR.
Ahh. I just looked on DTV forums and saw that.

He could use the RS20i to get a much warmer sound from the catalysts if needed. IMO they can be bit harsh in some instances and need a bit of EQ to help in this regard.
Edited by JapanDave - 1/19/13 at 3:42pm
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post #240 of 646
1/19/13 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

... I just watched the pod emerging scene in WOTW's and all I can say is, I love my sound system!!! Everything is so effortless and the base literally shakes the room, my skin feels as though it is being massaged and I get a tiggling feeling all through my skin ....

Great! Bass Management is a compromise. If your mains run out of gas by 60 or 80Hz then you clearly will see a benefit from BM. But if your mains can reach comfortably to 40Hz or lower you should try running without BM. In my experience everything improves.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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