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Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 2

post #31 of 641
12/13/12 at 12:00pm
Nick, I'm pretty sure Eq applies to output channels. This is how out place was done until I realised that Dirac simply did a better job.
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post #32 of 641
12/13/12 at 12:41pm
I thought as much Neil. Thanks for clarifying that.

And I would not bother with analogue out from blu ray. Even the dacs and processing was better on my old Rotel 1570 compared to oppo 95. So IMO, running analogue ins would be a waste of the processing power of the rs20i.
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post #33 of 641
12/13/12 at 12:42pm
I am a little confused with the suggestions around setting up subwoofers.

I have two subwoofers, one each next to my L&R speakers.

For movie listening (my predominant purpose with the RS20i) I think the suggestion is to have both subwoofer channels on channel 4 as per JapanDave's post and then EQ'd them as one subwoofer (I assume you set up bass management as a mono subwoofer). Is that correct?

At the moment I have set my subwoofers up as dual subwoofers (L&R) using bass management and assigning them to channel 4 and channel 9 as seperate channels and have EQ'd each as separate channels.

This is getting interesting! smile.gif
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post #34 of 641
12/13/12 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Wrong
You simply need to connect to a single channel of the analogue inputs then using the output routing table you can quickly send the input to output or combination of outputs. No additional cables or changes of connector required. Very simple solution.
I am sure that you can do a similar trick in the EQ page but this way is easiest for me.
But, would enable you to get a sweep of multiple channels at once?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Dave. I don't think that sub layout is necessarily what you were after. Dan explained exactly how to get a mono feed to multiple subs and this is how we prefer to configure them for movie playback.
I don't think Dan was able to get Mono to all subs when he had the unit. How did you do it? And I can understand how doing what I did would have all those channels EQ'ed under one channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

As Neil says, I just run a single output from my tascam us122mkii to left in on stereo 1 input. I can then send this to all channels via stereo routing. Except I can not send to my rears as, previously mentioned, I can not get my rears to fire on a stereo input. Most odd.
But for using rta I just use the internal tones of the rs20i and use rta on REW to measure and then I adjust accordingly.
In audio levels you have the option of either running pink noise thru a single channel or if you tick multichannel pink noise you can then select each channel you wish to play pink noise from simultaniously.
And re sub calibration. I listen to music using the subs as left and right so I calibrate them seperately. Then for movies I sum them to mono and run another eq for that.
It is a shame that one can not sum 2 sub channels and keep their independent eqs. Although I believe Dirac filters will allow this. But Neil will know for sure on that matter.

How did you connect the cable to your PC and what did you use? Also can you show screen shots or a few pics of how you have the RS20i set to feed the stereo input?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

I am a little confused with the suggestions around setting up subwoofers.
I have two subwoofers, one each next to my L&R speakers.
For movie listening (my predominant purpose with the RS20i) I think the suggestion is to have both subwoofer channels on channel 4 as per JapanDave's post and then EQ'd them as one subwoofer (I assume you set up bass management as a mono subwoofer). Is that correct?
At the moment I have set my subwoofers up as dual subwoofers (L&R) using bass management and assigning them to channel 4 and channel 9 as seperate channels and have EQ'd each as separate channels.
This is getting interesting! smile.gif
Yes, that is correct. When you have your two subs on that channel (4) and have base management on mono, it will feed the channel 4 signal to both subs. You could feed as many subs you want that same signal via my screen shot.

We needed this thread a long time ago. smile.gif
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post #35 of 641
12/13/12 at 2:45pm
Thanks JapanDave for your advice and as noted by others, in commencing this thread. I will rerun Dirac on the weekend setting my subs as suggested - for those that have tried the sub options available does this appear to be the preferred/best arrangement for listening to movies (it sounds a bit like the SubEQ version for Datasat users)?
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post #36 of 641
12/13/12 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Wrong
You simply need to connect to a single channel of the analogue inputs then using the output routing table you can quickly send the input to output or combination of outputs. No additional cables or changes of connector required. Very simple solution.
I am sure that you can do a similar trick in the EQ page but this way is easiest for me.

It is my understanding that if you route the input of channel 1 to the output of channel 2 that channel 2 will have the eq etc of channel 1.
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post #37 of 641
12/13/12 at 3:16pm
I don't have a unit in front of me but 99.9% sure the parametric and third octave EQ maps to an output hence it does not matter what input you direct to the output. This applies after Dirac in the processing chain and Dirac for certain IS mapped to the input channel driving however many outputs.

I had a good slide that showed the processing order and will try and dig it out.
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post #38 of 641
12/13/12 at 3:44pm
Please see Fig 68 on page 88 of the current on-line manual:

http://www.datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/TM-H529_V1.00_RS20i_User_Guide.pdf

4.3.8.4.1. Signal flow

From a user perspective, the channel mapping occurs near the last stage of the signal
processing. Only high pass and low pass filters are applied after the signal routing occurs.
This is illustrated in the diagram below. [can't copy diagram]

If I understand this correctly the only controls you have available on Channel 2 when copied from Channel 1 are high and low pass filters. All other controls for Channel 2 are set in Channel 1.
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post #39 of 641
12/13/12 at 4:44pm
^^ For your pleasure. Click image for larger view.

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post #40 of 641
12/13/12 at 10:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

Hi Roger,
That sounds exactly like an idea that's been floating around in my head. Where in your signal chain do you make these adjustments ? I guess it's in your processor and that you have memories to allow simple switching ? Don't think my DHC-9.9 can do this. confused.gif Maybe an iRule macro could do it ? Looks like a bit of work is required !
Cheers,

Peter, I have just seen that you can have up 20 presets that you can store things like delays , EQ settings etc,etc.
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post #41 of 641
12/14/12 at 3:38am
It wasn't that I couldn't get mono signal to my 8 subs; it was that there was only the eq for that one channel (number 4) for all of them. That was the issue: each pair of subs needs it's own eq, the channel delays and levels were perfectly adjustable.

I thought that the channel routing was like a true 16 channel matrix; it is kind-of with the bass management caveat that there are limitations to how you can assign subs. I've tried various work-a rounds, but my biggest issue was that Dirac lets me treat each channel ( of the 12 I can adjust ) however I'd like, bass management doesn't let me do that. Let me have 4 subwoofer outs that are just the LFE signal or LFE plus summed bass, and let ME decide what to do with that. You can have 8 outputs assigned to input 4 in routing: but you only get eq from channel 4 then, what if you want separate eq ?


Dan
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post #42 of 641
12/15/12 at 5:29am
Hoping someone can answer a set up question and also help with a problem.

When I set up my dual subwoofers as a single sub as suggested in earlier threads do I configure channel 4 (subwoofer channel) as 'multiple speakers' in the configuration screen in Dirac Live?

Second, after running one successful Dirac Live calibration I then had a bit of a break and when I went back to run another Dirac I could then not get any pink noise from the speakers when testing them in then configuration screen of Dirac Live. I think my ASIO driver settings may have changed but didn't take much notice of what it was before (the ASIO driver available to select is 'usb-audio.de ASIO driver) - do I need to update my ASIO Driver?

Appreciate any help.
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post #43 of 641
12/15/12 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

Hoping someone can answer a set up question and also help with a problem.
When I set up my dual subwoofers as a single sub as suggested in earlier threads do I configure channel 4 (subwoofer channel) as 'multiple speakers' in the configuration screen in Dirac Live? ...

#1) Turn off Bass Management.
#2) Put SW1 on channel OUT 4 and SW2 on channel OUT 9.
#3) Run the Dirac Live config tool. DO NOT mark the 'multiple loudspeaker' checkbox.
#4) After running DIrac Live turn on Bass Management and set BM to 2 subs.

The Dirac Live correction for SW1 & Sw2 will be applied as expected. There is more on this in the BM section of the RS20i User's Manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

... Second, after running one successful Dirac Live calibration I then had a bit of a break and when I went back to run another Dirac I could then not get any pink noise from the speakers when testing them in then configuration screen of Dirac Live. I think my ASIO driver settings may have changed but didn't take much notice of what it was before (the ASIO driver available to select is 'usb-audio.de ASIO driver) - do I need to update my ASIO Driver?
Appreciate any help.

It appears that either your RS20i has dropped out of Setup Mode or your laptop lost sync with the RS20i. To fix this simply save your project and restart both the proxy and Dirac Live apps.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
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post #44 of 641
12/15/12 at 11:39am
I am having some strange issues around eq etc.

I noticed while listening to some music that the left hand front channel was lower in mid and bass frequencies as compared to the right.

And upon checking the vu meters the left channel was markedly lower than the right.

I had check everything to do with left and right channels and could see no reason why this should be. Even swapping speakers over just incase it was a speaker issue, which it isnt.

But did find that disabling peq and 1/3 eq from the sub channels rectifies this issue.

I am starting to think I have a bit of a problem machine.
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post #45 of 641
12/15/12 at 11:48am
Further to last post....

I have found its the peq causing this problem.

Perhaps someone can do me a favor and just apply 3 filtered cuts to your sub channel and check the left and right pink noise. You can clearly hear at low volumes as to whether there is an issue as you'll notice no bass from the left channel.

Infact you do not really even need to do a pink noise test as you'll see the vu meter on left channel will be upto 10db lower. If indeed this is a bug or a problem with my machine.

I am pretty certain it is not a user error. But could be, nothing suprises me these days.
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post #46 of 641
12/15/12 at 12:06pm
Please do a full power down reset after applying the eq and retry. We are trying to trap all of the situations that need power down after application to work fully.
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post #47 of 641
12/15/12 at 2:08pm
Yes I did try that Neil. No difference.

For your info. I have bass management enabled and are rolling off the bass at 80hz to the subs.

I did a REW sweep and it measured that the sub was causing a peak at 100hz so I added a cut there in the peq. It is this cut that seams to cause the problem.

It makes no difference if I have bass management enabled, speakers set to large etc etc. 3 cuts in the peq causes the left hand channel to be mid and bass limited.

This problem does NOT transition to the left side speaker when I choose to copy front to sides in stereo level and routing.

Also, Neil, have you any idea why I can not get the rears to play a signal from 2 channel analogue input? I have stereo level and routing set to screen plus sides, then I have copy sides to rears enabled and have 7.1 output present selected?
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post #48 of 641
12/15/12 at 2:16pm
Nick, please email me screenshots of your input and output config.
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post #49 of 641
12/15/12 at 2:31pm
Cheers Neil, will do. Shall do tomorrow now.
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post #50 of 641
12/15/12 at 2:50pm
Thx Carl for the advice on the set up - I'll try it that way. As per my email I tried restarting the proxy and Dirac Live but still have the same problem.
Edited by stephenbr - 12/15/12 at 3:36pm
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post #51 of 641
12/15/12 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Nick, please email me screenshots of your input and output config.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Cheers Neil, will do. Shall do tomorrow now.
Hi Neil, thanks for taking the time to help out, but in the spirit of the thread, could we have technically talk and fixs posted in the thread after the issue is worked out? I understand that email is the quickest way to deal with these problems. smile.gif

@Carl, thanks for the input. smile.gif
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post #52 of 641
12/15/12 at 3:01pm
I 'fixed' my Dirac Live 'problem' - did a quick test this morning and its back working again. Must have had a late night brain fade in something I was doing last night!
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post #53 of 641
12/15/12 at 3:08pm
Don't worry Dave, illbe sure to keep all updated with ( probably setup) my issues and how they are fixed.

Neil has my screen shots so I am sure master yoda will be able to get to the bottom of it.
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post #54 of 641
12/15/12 at 3:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

Must have had a late night brain FART last night!
Fixed that for Stephen! LOL tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Don't worry Dave, illbe sure to keep all updated with ( probably setup) my issues and how they are fixed.
Neil has my screen shots so I am sure master yoda will be able to get to the bottom of it.
Thanks, I think it will be beneficial to all of us.
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post #55 of 641
12/16/12 at 7:44pm
Thread Starter 
Well, I finally got some measurements taken with REW. Once you know how it is really very simple(I suppose you can say that about anything I guess?)
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post #56 of 641
12/22/12 at 1:37am
I saw the rs20i in action at a convention and the noise level coming from the unit put me off, like a server.
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post #57 of 641
12/22/12 at 4:27am
The great thing with Datasat is..... Now a few have complained about fan noise ( not owners of rs20i) then datasat will probably do something about it!
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post #58 of 641
12/22/12 at 6:26am
I do not think much could be done with the amount of stuff going on inside, I see the rs20i more of a computer. Will sit back in anticipation.
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post #59 of 641
12/22/12 at 7:40am
Well, the unit is still really designed to be rack mounted, hence the included rack ears and as such needs to have fans geared up for this.

I am sure a small resistor or even software update could Slow the fan so people who have them in their rooms with air flow around could have them at a lower fan volume. My TiVo box is louder. Lol
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post #60 of 641
12/22/12 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsy49 View Post

I do not think much could be done with the amount of stuff going on inside, I see the rs20i more of a computer. Will sit back in anticipation.
Well, it is a computer... That said, I lived with an AP20 for over a year and never felt its "noise" was the least bit noticeable in the real world.
BTW, my long-awaited RS20i will be here this coming Thursday - have to admit I am giddy with anticipation!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)