AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 13

post #361 of 646
2/14/13 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

As a professional calibrator I see the option to tweak things as a boon for those interested in the ultimate SQ.
Couldn't agree more, Nyal. Even those who want to "set and forget" should at least explore target curve customization. This, alone, is worth the price of admission.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #362 of 646
2/14/13 at 10:22am
I have never had a piece that used DB25 connectors for output channels. Do you just get a breakout cable with 8 XLR male ends to connect interconnects to? Sorry if that was covered. I have read through the first couple of pages of this thread and then the manual but only saw the manual state "attach appropriate cabling to the DB25 connector" or something like that...

I am very interested in this unit and it sounds like I am coming from a similar world like Thrang is... Audyssey, etc... I guess it sounds like with this new card most of the current decoding technologies are in there. So previously it did not decode TrueHD?

Is HDMI handshaking robust with this unit? I know sometimes smaller companies have more issues with this...

Nyal - I know you are a big proponent of EQ with Xilica for the bass range... something I need to call you about sometime by the way.... but does the EQ capability in the RS20i negate the need for something like a Xilica XP4080?
Reply
Reply
post #363 of 646
2/14/13 at 10:35am
"I have never had a piece that used DB25 connectors for output channels. Do you just get a breakout cable with 8 XLR male ends to connect interconnects to?"

Yes, you get two breakout cables to balanced XLR for a total of 16 channels out. Custom cables can be made if you are looking for unbalanced RCA outputs.

So previously it did not decode TrueHD?

Nope. Altho the RS20i had DTS and DTS HD decoders, the only Dolby decoding previously in the RS20i was AC3. The new decoder card changes all of that.

... does the EQ capability in the RS20i negate the need for something like a Xilica XP4080?

The Dirac Live optimization in the RS20i can apply its magic down 20Hz. This is in addition to the 16 channels of ISO 3rd octave filters and bass PEQ found in the box.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Reply
Reply
post #364 of 646
2/14/13 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I have never had a piece that used DB25 connectors for output channels. Do you just get a breakout cable with 8 XLR male ends to connect interconnects to? Sorry if that was covered. I have read through the first couple of pages of this thread and then the manual but only saw the manual state "attach appropriate cabling to the DB25 connector" or something like that...

I am very interested in this unit and it sounds like I am coming from a similar world like Thrang is... Audyssey, etc... I guess it sounds like with this new card most of the current decoding technologies are in there. So previously it did not decode TrueHD?

Is HDMI handshaking robust with this unit? I know sometimes smaller companies have more issues with this...

Nyal - I know you are a big proponent of EQ with Xilica for the bass range... something I need to call you about sometime by the way.... but does the EQ capability in the RS20i negate the need for something like a Xilica XP4080?

I was new to DB25's too, but I quite like them as they make hook-ups much neater on the back of the RS20i. The only potential downside is if you ever switch amps you may need new cables if there are different inputs on the new amp than you had before. Not a big deal though as I had Markertek make up some DB25 custom cables and they did a nice job for not a huge amount of money.

HDMI handshaking has not been an issue for me, and no TrueHD decoding was a non-issue as I was decoding in the source anyway. It will be nice to have it finally all done in the Datasat, but I doubt there will be an audible difference.

Does anyone know when Datasat expects to ship out the new cards to existing owners?
Reply
Reply
post #365 of 646
2/14/13 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

"... seems like a lot of manual tweaking and work to get Dirac "right" ..."

I don't think that configuring Dirac is difficult. The default settings sound very good. Rather the issue is Dirac affords such a high level of flexibility people naturally explore nuances that they prefer to hear in their systems. Audiophiles tend to be 'tweaky' by nature.



______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Sounds good. I do want the capability to tweak... but Dirac can do its thing in a quite automated way and then let the user measure and tweak those results? So if you wanted to let it measure and forget it, it would do that, and then allow whatever additional tweaking the user wanted?
Reply
Reply
post #366 of 646
2/14/13 at 11:45am
What does Datasat charge existing owners for these new cards? Just trying to get a gauge on what kind of upgrade price points the company generally charges...

Is the new card shipping on new units? Does it change the MSRP of the Rs20i?
Reply
Reply
post #367 of 646
2/14/13 at 12:02pm
"Dolby" card included in price.

Scott
Reply
Reply
post #368 of 646
2/14/13 at 12:03pm
"Sounds good. I do want the capability to tweak... but Dirac can do its thing in a quite automated way and then let the user measure and tweak those results? So if you wanted to let it measure and forget it, it would do that, and then allow whatever additional tweaking the user wanted?"

Yes! That is the way that the system was purposely designed.

"What does Datasat charge existing owners for these new cards? Just trying to get a gauge on what kind of upgrade price points the company generally charges..."

The upgrade is free to all RS20i users old and new. Firmware upgrades for the RS20i are always free as well and available 'automagically' using the internet.

"Is the new card shipping on new units? Does it change the MSRP of the Rs20i?"

Yes, all new RS20i units will ship with the new decoder card. And nope, no pricing change.

______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Reply
Reply
post #369 of 646
2/14/13 at 12:04pm
Free is a great price!
Reply
Reply
post #370 of 646
2/14/13 at 12:09pm
Quote:
"Sounds good. I do want the capability to tweak... but Dirac can do its thing in a quite automated way and then let the user measure and tweak those results? So if you wanted to let it measure and forget it, it would do that, and then allow whatever additional tweaking the user wanted?"
Quote:
Yes! That is the way that the system was purposely designed.

So have any RS20i users had the opportunity to compare automatic (no manual fiddling) Dirac vs. Audyssey Pro calibrations?
Edited by thrang - 2/14/13 at 12:17pm
Reply
Reply
post #371 of 646
2/14/13 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Noob question - seems like a lot of manual tweaking and work to get Dirac "right", (unless I'm reading this thread wrong), compared to Audyssey Pro. I know they are different approaches, so not trying to compare them as apple's to apple's - but is Dirac "more complex" than some users here may have surmised or hoped?
It is a lot easier to set up Dirac than REW, the main issue is not with Dirac live, it is how to correctly use your mic and preamp. And I would take the measurements of a properly calibrated mic and over what comes with Audyssey. The main problem I think is that most people , me included don't realize that Dirac takes measurements at higher SPL levels and this is where I was coming unstuck. Now I have it setup I can make measurements and design a curve faster than I did in Audyssey

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


So have any RS20i users had the opportunity to compare automatic (no manual fiddling) Dirac vs. Audyssey Pro calibrations?
I have had Audyssey and I believe it really kills the dynamics in my case. I much prefer the sound of Dirac, especially in the LF region. I had an Integra 80.2.
Reply
Reply
post #372 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:00pm
thrang - As Dave noted certainly any problems I have experienced with Dirac Live has just been about getting the fundamentals right (eg correct ASIO driver for the preamp, setting levels right , ensuring right buttons on preamp set!) - after that it is very easy to use but noting those potential setup problems not as fool proof as Audyssey pro. I have changed out a lot of gear since I used Audyssey (and I was using an SEQ not the current XT32) so I can't make valid comparisons.
Reply
Reply
post #373 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

thrang - As Dave noted certainly any problems I have experienced with Dirac Live has just been about getting the fundamentals right (eg correct ASIO driver for the preamp, setting levels right , ensuring right buttons on preamp set!) - after that it is very easy to use but noting those potential setup problems not as fool proof as Audyssey pro. I have changed out a lot of gear since I used Audyssey (and I was using an SEQ not the current XT32) so I can't make valid comparisons.

So I think if i'm reading this all correctly, Dave (and you?) are using mic and preamp purchased on your own and not part of the official kit? If one acquired the official kit, are these issues not really applicable?

Is there a Dirac guide that guides one through the proper process, and perhaps its not precisely applicable to third party mic's and pre-amps?

Again, sorry for the noob questions. but I cannot find too much online.. I did find this:

http://datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_898_H542V10DiracQuickStart.pdf

Which seems simple enough if applicable to the RS20i.
Reply
Reply
post #374 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

It is a lot easier to set up Dirac than REW, the main issue is not with Dirac live, it is how to correctly use your mic and preamp. And I would take the measurements of a properly calibrated mic and over what comes with Audyssey. The main problem I think is that most people , me included don't realize that Dirac takes measurements at higher SPL levels and this is where I was coming unstuck. Now I have it setup I can make measurements and design a curve faster than I did in Audyssey
I have had Audyssey and I believe it really kills the dynamics in my case. I much prefer the sound of Dirac, especially in the LF region. I had an Integra 80.2.

Thanks Dave...
Reply
Reply
post #375 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:28pm
thrang - the problems I experienced was a result of me just getting familiar with Dirac (and ensuring the right ASIO driver which I assume would be provided with a Datasat installer's kit) and may be experienced by others regardless of the origin of the equipment. In the end it is very simple and the quickstart guide you have linked to is really all that is needed (on the Datasat site there is a full guide for setting up Dirac for the AP20 that is also available if anyone needed more information).
Reply
Reply
post #376 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:32pm
Here you go Thrang.

http://datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_899_H403V1.01DiracLivemanual.pdf

_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Reply
Reply
post #377 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:34pm
I should also note that I know my current ability to set up the RS20i and Dirac would fall far short of what could be achieved by Carl, Dan and by the sounds of it especially Neil's. Dave's capability for set up would also be much greater (I have to get my head into REW and start using it). But I am limited in my options to access such expertise (until one of them takes a working holiday in Melbourne and in Dan's case I pay for his airfare!) so having the kit is the right option for me and does help me improve the already great base sound of the RS20i.
Reply
Reply
post #378 of 646
2/14/13 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So I think if i'm reading this all correctly, Dave (and you?) are using mic and preamp purchased on your own and not part of the official kit? If one acquired the official kit, are these issues not really applicable?

Is there a Dirac guide that guides one through the proper process, and perhaps its not precisely applicable to third party mic's and pre-amps?

Again, sorry for the noob questions. but I cannot find too much online.. I did find this:

http://datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_898_H542V10DiracQuickStart.pdf

Which seems simple enough if applicable to the RS20i.
Yes, I purchased my own gear and the main reason for that was that I was an early adopter with the AP20. At that time there was no kits as it was a Pro piece of gear. That said, anyone who is going to tweak their rooms EQ will ultimately need a properly calibrated mic and a preamp (USB mics now coming out negate the preamp) to use software like TrueRTA and REW. So getting you own gear, may it come from DataSat or something else is a non issue for me. As for your question, I think that a DataSat provided setup would certainly makes things a bit easier as there are more people with the same setup and if I am not wrong it also comes with a two day course??? But, even without the course if you are unable to get to it, this thread is now starting to bring together other users and their knowledge. That being said, Carl Huff was invaluable to me with my setup and my endless questions, so it goes without saying that you should buy from someone who will give you the behind the scenes support ,if you are like Stephen and me and live away from any dealers.

Of course the guide is designed for the gear DataSat recomend, but that does not mean to say that the instructions are not applicable to third party gear, as is the case with me. Just look at my sig, I am really quite hopeless when it comes to electronics and I was able to set it up. I can't even install windows 7 without screwing it up!!!biggrin.gif

But, like I said before the support is now here as the unit becomes more mainstream.
Reply
Reply
post #379 of 646
2/14/13 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Nyal - I know you are a big proponent of EQ with Xilica for the bass range... something I need to call you about sometime by the way.... but does the EQ capability in the RS20i negate the need for something like a Xilica XP4080?

Maybe one of the DataSat users or dealers can chime in here. Can the RS20i do individual delays, levels and EQ for multiple subs? Or does it treat all of the subs as a single entity?

In my experience for proper multi-sub integration you'd have control over what each individual sub was doing. You can get around multi-sub time alignment issues sometimes with the phase control (assuming your sub has one) but quite often you need digital delay to get everything to play nice. And if you are using a symmetrical front / rear sub arrangement you can often treat each sub pair (for example front pair, rear pair) as a unit.

With the Xilica you can individually control each sub. Levels, delays, parametric EQ, graphic EQ, phase shift (useful for matching up subs with different internal EQs), shelving filters, etc.
Reply
Reply
post #380 of 646
2/14/13 at 6:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Maybe one of the DataSat users or dealers can chime in here. Can the RS20i do individual delays, levels and EQ for multiple subs? Or does it treat all of the subs as a single entity?

In my experience for proper multi-sub integration you'd have control over what each individual sub was doing. You can get around multi-sub time alignment issues sometimes with the phase control (assuming your sub has one) but quite often you need digital delay to get everything to play nice. And if you are using a symmetrical front / rear sub arrangement you can often treat each sub pair (for example front pair, rear pair) as a unit.

With the Xilica you can individually control each sub. Levels, delays, parametric EQ, graphic EQ, phase shift (useful for matching up subs with different internal EQs), shelving filters, etc.
Hey Nyal,
I am no expert , but here goes. The RS20i has the abilty to have each sub on its own channel and with that you can set each subs individual delays. You can then choose if you want to EQ all subs on one channel or groups of subs individually if you choose to, or finally each sub EQ'ed individually. With Driac Live you have the ability to set any curve you want. I have no idea of shelving filters ,phase shift, maybe someone more knowledgeable could chime in?
Reply
Reply
post #381 of 646
2/14/13 at 8:27pm
Dave, your explanation is pretty spot-on. The RS20i is probably more capable than most processors to do quite a few tasks- but it's not a commercial DSP. Outboard DSP allow you certain abilities that the Dirac live evan cannot (compression, limiters, shelf filters {kind of}). In that respect, I'd rather use DSP for subs and Dirac for high-pass. BUT the Dirac filters were quite good for the 8 subs in my demo system, and I was pretty impressed with what I could do with the processor once I figured out how to make it work with our system.

Phase and time issues will be handled with aplomb by Dirac live- it's the dynamics filters that are absent. Maybe it's my commercial sound-guy coming out, but I like limiters because it means the customer can't break things. I like being able to say to a client "turn it up all the way of you want- you can't hurt it".

The pedantic answer to Nyal's question is BOTH. You can treat the subs as one channel or 4. My problem has always been how they deal with that: LFE signal routed to 4 outputs all the same (until modified by the user) vs. Left front LFE, Right Front LFE, Left rear LFE, and right Rear LFE. The way we should be able to route channels is if we want 5 full range and 11 subwoofers- all independent- then fine. That is not really the case, though.

I'd now like to touch on something I mentioned earlier: Dirac kits must be approved by Datasat for sale to end-users. The price of the kit includes training at Datasat for setup of the processor and Dirac tuning. The kit is intended for dealers/installers- not the end user. Datasat wants their dealers installing the box, tuning the room, and then making the desired changes to the eq curves. Make no mistake- the tech support people have their hands full enough with dealers' Dirac software issues. Anyone that doesn't believe me can checkout my shoot-out thread, the first week+ was just getting the software to work with a computer.

Although Genesis is trying to get a consumer kit approved, what I've been told by Datasat USA is that the only way to get Dirac software is to purchase the kit, and they have to approve that purchase. Datasat doesn't have the tech support personnel to field Dirac questions from consumers, they have their hands full between commercial and residential dealers. Also, Datasat wants the dealer to support their sale- to prevent clerking the product without any repercussions- that forces the manufacturer to carry a certain part of the dealer's load. As a dealer myself, I want my customer to get the best they can for what they have spent $$ on: since I probably have more experience than the consumer, it makes sense for me to install and calibrate the system.

I see a market for the sale of just the Dirac software/dongle to allow the consumer to tweak the curves how they like them. BUT the unit should be installed by the dealer's trained personnel.

Dan
Reply
Reply
post #382 of 646
2/14/13 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Here you go Thrang.

http://datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_899_H403V1.01DiracLivemanual.pdf

_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Thanks - seems somewhat complex, but I guess I need to see the process in person to get a feel...any new jerseysns playing with this?!
Reply
Reply
post #383 of 646
2/14/13 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Dave, your explanation is pretty spot-on. The RS20i is probably more capable than most processors to do quite a few tasks- but it's not a commercial DSP. Outboard DSP allow you certain abilities that the Dirac live evan cannot (compression, limiters, shelf filters {kind of}). In that respect, I'd rather use DSP for subs and Dirac for high-pass. BUT the Dirac filters were quite good for the 8 subs in my demo system, and I was pretty impressed with what I could do with the processor once I figured out how to make it work with our system.

Phase and time issues will be handled with aplomb by Dirac live- it's the dynamics filters that are absent. Maybe it's my commercial sound-guy coming out, but I like limiters because it means the customer can't break things. I like being able to say to a client "turn it up all the way of you want- you can't hurt it".

The pedantic answer to Nyal's question is BOTH. You can treat the subs as one channel or 4. My problem has always been how they deal with that: LFE signal routed to 4 outputs all the same (until modified by the user) vs. Left front LFE, Right Front LFE, Left rear LFE, and right Rear LFE. The way we should be able to route channels is if we want 5 full range and 11 subwoofers- all independent- then fine. That is not really the case, though.

I'd now like to touch on something I mentioned earlier: Dirac kits must be approved by Datasat for sale to end-users. The price of the kit includes training at Datasat for setup of the processor and Dirac tuning. The kit is intended for dealers/installers- not the end user. Datasat wants their dealers installing the box, tuning the room, and then making the desired changes to the eq curves. Make no mistake- the tech support people have their hands full enough with dealers' Dirac software issues. Anyone that doesn't believe me can checkout my shoot-out thread, the first week+ was just getting the software to work with a computer.

Although Genesis is trying to get a consumer kit approved, what I've been told by Datasat USA is that the only way to get Dirac software is to purchase the kit, and they have to approve that purchase. Datasat doesn't have the tech support personnel to field Dirac questions from consumers, they have their hands full between commercial and residential dealers. Also, Datasat wants the dealer to support their sale- to prevent clerking the product without any repercussions- that forces the manufacturer to carry a certain part of the dealer's load. As a dealer myself, I want my customer to get the best they can for what they have spent $$ on: since I probably have more experience than the consumer, it makes sense for me to install and calibrate the system.

I see a market for the sale of just the Dirac software/dongle to allow the consumer to tweak the curves how they like them. BUT the unit should be installed by the dealer's trained personnel.

Dan

I respect everything you're saying, but personally, if I can't feel comfortable understanding and comtrolling what I buy in this hobby, I don't think I would be interested. That's part of why I like it ( though if something is absurdly complex, it's not worth it either)

Not being able to own the calibration tools would be a deal breaker for me, even if I could justify the larger curiosities I have. I mean, how many of us have done one Audyssey calibration? :-)
Edited by thrang - 2/15/13 at 3:41am
Reply
Reply
post #384 of 646
2/14/13 at 9:31pm
Incidentally ...

Hard limiters are built into the Bass Management that is part of the RS20i and the Hi Pass shelving within Dirac Live can be set as steep as 48dB per octave and adjusted down to be as low as 20Hz.

How can I put this without ruffling too many feathers ...

Dealers have a vested interested promoting the need for a professional installer. In reality configuring Dirac Live is essentially take 9 samples and load the filters to the RS20i. It doesn't have to be any more difficult than that.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Edited by Carl_Huff - 2/14/13 at 9:39pm
Reply
Reply
post #385 of 646
2/15/13 at 3:49am
As of CES, I was told that the purchase of the Dirac kit was the ONLY way an end-user could get Dirac live software for the RS20i, and that the sale needed to be approved by Datasat in order to happen.

I will say that this has been my experience with my own customers (that DID buy the kit, BTW).

Apparently there are too many "dealers" out there already selling this product through internet channels without any support whatsoever. Although Carl is gracious enough to be a support channel here, when you buy an 18000 dollar processor- you would think that the person selling it would support it.

Let's not candy-coat the entire process, though: running Dirac is "automagic" once you get it working properly, but let's be real: it's clunky at BEST to get working properly with the PC. I had to try 3 different versions of windows to get it to function properly with the ASIO driver for the USB Pre2. Dave has had some issues with it, I believe stephan had some issues with it. I know that I spent a decent amount of time on the phone with Datasat tech support and Carl to get it running correctly...it's these software issues that Datasat wants to keep off the plate of the end user- that's where the dealer needs to be supporting the sale.This is not a sell-it and forget-it processor, NONE of them are at this price point; they all have little tricks to them to get them working the best way possible.

If a customer is willing to pay for the Installer kit to get the supported hardware and the software, I have no problem selling the kit to them; it's great hardware! I also have no problem helping that customer get the software running properly on their PC. However, wouldn't you think that it is beneficial for a dealer (who profits from the sale of the unit) to do the initial setup and calibration- if nothing else than to give the customer a demonstration on how to manipulate the RS20i?

Come on, this box costs as much as a car! It should include a little hand-holding from the dealer.

Where are the limiter settings in Bass management? I looked through the installation manual and didn't see the screen that allows for limiter adjustment. Can I feather-in the limiter by adding a compressor before it kicks-in? adjust knee frequency?attack?- that was what I meant. Although you can shape Dirac Live to do a "shelf" filter- it isn't quite the same as a shelf-filter in a DSP where you set frequency, slope and have a broad range of gain or cut at your disposal. The case was the same with Trinnov as well. I think one needs to be careful not to oversell the capabilities of this new crop of very expensive, very high end processors, there are still things that can only be done in purpose-built tools. That isn't to say that these capabilities cannot be added to the RS20i or Trinnov processors, they just haven't been.

Dan
Reply
Reply
post #386 of 646
2/15/13 at 4:01am
Lyric Hi Fi in Manhattan is a dealer and has a RS20i installed they also have the installation kit.

Buying the the kit separately and then trying to negotiate a software price from Datasat, if they deem you capable of using it, is just not price competitive. The sum of the parts, including the software price, come out more expensive if you use the same components.
I also believe that buying Mic's preamps etc which are not the same quality is silly. Why pay for a top notch product like the RS20i and then feed it data from inferior measuring equipment. We all no the saying garbage in garbage out.

Just a footnote I did buy the kit.
Reply
Reply
post #387 of 646
2/15/13 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

As of CES, I was told that the purchase of the Dirac kit was the ONLY way an end-user could get Dirac live software for the RS20i, and that the sale needed to be approved by Datasat in order to happen.

I will say that this has been my experience with my own customers (that DID buy the kit, BTW).

Apparently there are too many "dealers" out there already selling this product through internet channels without any support whatsoever. Although Carl is gracious enough to be a support channel here, when you buy an 18000 dollar processor- you would think that the person selling it would support it.

Let's not candy-coat the entire process, though: running Dirac is "automagic" once you get it working properly, but let's be real: it's clunky at BEST to get working properly with the PC. I had to try 3 different versions of windows to get it to function properly with the ASIO driver for the USB Pre2. Dave has had some issues with it, I believe stephan had some issues with it. I know that I spent a decent amount of time on the phone with Datasat tech support and Carl to get it running correctly...it's these software issues that Datasat wants to keep off the plate of the end user- that's where the dealer needs to be supporting the sale.This is not a sell-it and forget-it processor, NONE of them are at this price point; they all have little tricks to them to get them working the best way possible.

If a customer is willing to pay for the Installer kit to get the supported hardware and the software, I have no problem selling the kit to them; it's great hardware! I also have no problem helping that customer get the software running properly on their PC. However, wouldn't you think that it is beneficial for a dealer (who profits from the sale of the unit) to do the initial setup and calibration- if nothing else than to give the customer a demonstration on how to manipulate the RS20i?

Come on, this box costs as much as a car! It should include a little hand-holding from the dealer.

Where are the limiter settings in Bass management? I looked through the installation manual and didn't see the screen that allows for limiter adjustment. Can I feather-in the limiter by adding a compressor before it kicks-in? adjust knee frequency?attack?- that was what I meant. Although you can shape Dirac Live to do a "shelf" filter- it isn't quite the same as a shelf-filter in a DSP where you set frequency, slope and have a broad range of gain or cut at your disposal. The case was the same with Trinnov as well. I think one needs to be careful not to oversell the capabilities of this new crop of very expensive, very high end processors, there are still things that can only be done in purpose-built tools. That isn't to say that these capabilities cannot be added to the RS20i or Trinnov processors, they just haven't been.

Dan

I would expect enhanced support from a dealer based on the cost of unit automatically, though not at the expense of having no long term control. I suppose I see it as: I don't mind a driving instructor being in the car and grabbing the wheel when starting out, but I would expect to remain in the driver's seat and be able to learn to drive on my own relatively quickly.
Reply
Reply
post #388 of 646
2/15/13 at 6:20am
Just to add. As I understand it. Here in the uk when the consumer Dirac kits become available they will not just be sold and one left to get on with it. The customer will have full support of their dealer and if the dealers is unable to answer any questions then the dealer has full support of Genesis Technologies / Neil who works very closely with Datasat on the evolution of the rs20i and Dirac.

There is no doubt that I will get a consumer kit, but to not get Neil in to do the calibration, which is includede in the price of an rs20i in uK would be madness. Which is why I hope to get Neil down in the next month. And like all the other uk folk whom have an rs20i and want a consumer kit they too are getting Neil in to do their main calibration.

I do not know how this translate to european customers. But I guess that a consumer unit may also be available to them also as the RS20i is distributed by Genesis around Europe also.
Reply
Reply
post #389 of 646
2/15/13 at 7:28am
All of the talk on how to properly set up 4 subs has been a little confusing, but how about this question:

With an "automated" Dirac calibration, with 4 subs connected, whether mono or however most appropriate, will Dirac measure and set distances / level for the 4 subs independently itself and then sum them together for a for a final calibration like Audyssey will do with two subs?
Edited by hifiaudio2 - 2/15/13 at 7:52am
Reply
Reply
post #390 of 646
2/15/13 at 8:37am
Dirac does not do delays or level matching; that must be done manually.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)