or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 27

post #781 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Only if your using coax. If your feeding HDMI then a 192 signal will be downsampled after processing. With coax you'll have to down sample in the pc. This I believe is a bug and I reported it a while back, it may have been rectified by now with the newer firmware.
I am using HDMI and I only get static from my speakers when running WASAPI and DolbyHD/DTSMA??? I was thinking that jRiver will support bit-streaming through HDMI?
post #782 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I am using HDMI and I only get static from my speakers when running WASAPI and DolbyHD/DTSMA??? I was thinking that jRiver will support bit-streaming through HDMI?
Is there a way to ensure the data is bit-accurate in jRiver? If there's any gain change, mixing, or sample rate conversion, the bitstreams will be corrupted.
post #783 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Is there a way to ensure the data is bit-accurate in jRiver? If there's any gain change, mixing, or sample rate conversion, the bitstreams will be corrupted.
Roger, I have no idea. But ,am I correct when I say that the RS20i down samples the 192 signal?
post #784 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Roger, I have no idea. But ,am I correct when I say that the RS20i down samples the 192 signal?
Yes, that is what Carl says and I have no reason to doubt him.

But that is not a problem relative to iRiver or any other kind of source, as the downsampling does not occur until all the sources are converted to baseband PCM. The AP-20 (and I presume the RS-20i) uses the Burr Brown SRC4184, which is similar to the SRC4192 Classé uses in the SSP-800, where everything is SRC'd to 96 kHz.
post #785 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Yes, that is what Carl says and I have no reason to doubt him.

But that is not a problem relative to iRiver or any other kind of source, as the downsampling does not occur until all the sources are converted to baseband PCM. The AP-20 (and I presume the RS-20i) uses the Burr Brown SRC4184, which is similar to the SRC4192 Classé uses in the SSP-800, where everything is SRC'd to 96 kHz.

Looks like I am going to have to check the PC settings and settings in XBMC then. Thanks for the help.
post #786 of 1456
Yes intheory, as the RS20i will accept 192/24 from my oppo without any static, there is no reason it should be different from the pc.

Once my pc is back up and running ill connect mine up via HDMI and test this also. But as said I get the static ( or did ) when connected via coax from pc / jriver when sending a 192 file. But this I believe is a bug or oversight on the rs20i. As all rectified when one disables processing.

But rest assured the rs20i plays back 192 blu rays perfectly. And I have quite a few that I have played over the last few months.
post #787 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

As all rectified when one disables processing.
This is what bothers me. Why pay all this money for processing power only to turn it off? I would rather listen to lossy formats than do that. Ideally I want to have bit-streaming and have the RS20i decode the loss-less codecs.
post #788 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

As all rectified when one disables processing.
This is what bothers me. Why pay all this money for processing power and finally get the new DolbyHD card only to turn it off? I would rather listen to lossy formats than do that. Ideally I want to have bit-streaming and have the RS20i decode the loss-less codecs.
post #789 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

This is what bothers me. Why pay all this money for processing power and finally get the new DolbyHD card only to turn it off? I would rather listen to lossy formats than do that. Ideally I want to have bit-streaming and have the RS20i decode the loss-less codecs.
I think he's just doing that as a workaround until the static bug gets fixed.
post #790 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I think he's just doing that as a workaround until the static bug gets fixed.
Roger, are you aware that this is a bug with RS20i? And BTW, what pics of the RS20i did you want? I took a heap when I installed the new card. smile.gif
post #791 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

This is what bothers me. Why pay all this money for processing power and finally get the new DolbyHD card only to turn it off? I would rather listen to lossy formats than do that. Ideally I want to have bit-streaming and have the RS20i decode the loss-less codecs.

I have to agree with Dave. Datasat are clearly aiming for the RS20i to be the "best audio processor in the world", and whilst it is undoubtedly the best audio processor I have ever personally heard, I find little niggles like the down sampling of 192Khz sources, or its lack of ability to handle DSD streams from a suitable SACD player detract from that aim.

Leaving the subjective conversation aside (hopefully permanently) as to whether there are audible differences in down sampling or DSD to PCM conversion, as a customer, if I have purchased media with a 192Khz sampling rate, or a bunch of SACD's, I want them to be played back to their fullest possible potential given that I have "best audio processor in the world", including maintaining any necessary EQ processing to combat my in room response, not have to choose one or the other.

If what Carl says it correct (and in support of Nick, I have also been told that 192KHz Dirac processing is on the road map to be implemented), and there is no prospect for the RS20i to be upgrade to support 192Khz processing, then that is very sad to hear in my opinion.

One quick question for Carl though, assuming Dirac could be implemented on the RS20i to process at 192Khz, would it not be possible to maintain that sampling rate if the other EQ filters (PEQ etc) were not engaged. i.e. can Datasat simply change the firmware such that the those EQ stages can be bypassed, thus removing the need to down sample, or is that processing path hard wired into the RS20i making the down sampling unavoidable if 'any' processing is engaged?
post #792 of 1456
Guys, regardless of what may be be posted here, several of you have been told by DataSat employees in the DataSat office that they are working on 192k end to end. I do not believe the updates will make a huge difference or when they would be available but it is true that the best processor available goal puts some pressure to deliver on these types of things.

DataSat are working on many amazing new products and upgrades.
post #793 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Guys, regardless of what may be be posted here, several of you have been told by DataSat employees in the DataSat office that they are working on 192k end to end. I do not believe the updates will make a huge difference or when they would be available but it is true that the best processor available goal puts some pressure to deliver on these types of things.

Thanks for confirming that Neil. So there is a chance it may come eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

DataSat are working on many amazing new products and upgrades.

Any new tidbits that you are allowed to disclose?
post #794 of 1456
Nothing I can reveal just now on possible new products but there are a few things going on!

I am not a DataSat spokesman but I am pretty sure that it was repeated the last time you were there that they planned on 192k.
post #795 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Nothing I can reveal just now on possible new products but there are a few things going on!.

That's a shame! smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

I am not a DataSat spokesman but I am pretty sure that it was repeated the last time you were there that they planned on 192k.

Yep, that was my recollection too.
post #796 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Roger, are you aware that this is a bug with RS20i?
No. I was just saying that djnickuk thinks there is a bug and he avoids it by turning off processing. Not a problem for other 192 kHz sources.
Quote:
And BTW, what pics of the RS20i did you want? I took a heap when I installed the new card. smile.gif
Just the audio board, so we can see the SRC chip, DAC chips, volume controls chips, output buffers... wink.gif
Edited by Roger Dressler - 7/23/13 at 1:25pm
post #797 of 1456
How many 8 channel aes inputs are there on this baby ?

2?

I need one for DCI from IMB

And one for Modded Oppo 4 x spdif.

Thanks in advance.
post #798 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

How many 8 channel aes inputs are there on this baby ?

2?

I need one for DCI from IMB

And one for Modded Oppo 4 x spdif.
1.

Looks to be the same as the AP-20:

Digital Audio Inputs
-- Channels: 16
-- Connectors: Two DB25 Female (Ch1-8 and Ch9-16)
-- Digital Format: AES/EBU
-- Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 96kHz and 192kHz
post #799 of 1456
Thanks Roger.

Yes but can you split up the 8 channels into 2 8 channels? That, is the question.
post #800 of 1456
I'm pretty sure that you can do that. I want to say that it's similar to setting up the output channel configuration; AES 1-8 and AES 9-16.

Been a while, though, the unit I had is now in the hands of my local rep.

I'll check the manual I have to see if there's anything in there.

Dan
post #801 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Thanks Roger.

Yes but can you split up the 8 channels into 2 8 channels? That, is the question.

Yes, you can attach a seperate source to each 8 channel DB25 input, or one combined 16 channel input source, but you can't break each 8 channel module further than that (e.g. 4 x digital stereo sources), only one source per 8 channels.
post #802 of 1456
Thank you very much. This Datasat company has got their act together.

Yesterday at Prometheus I installed the card which comes with the usb stick, it took 20 minutes to disconnect the piece and take it out of the rack, install the card ( whence we realized that we did not have to remove the processor to install it), it could have been done with the rs-20 screwed to the rack. Oh well from functioning without card to card installed 20 minutes, then software update 10 minutes, in and out in 30 minutes, easiest hundred dollars a minute ever made. biggrin.gif













Then afterwards I headed out to 26 Star Island where it took 10 minutes with equal ease to update the firmware to the one of the few AP-20's in a home system (grandfather clause).





You can see how many software revisions had gone unimplemented since 2011...









Plug and Play? nerly. These guys level of pro-activity and diligent commitment to future upgradability sets a standard I have not seen since I co-created CEDIA (NOUVEL SPACE CHARTER FOUNDER).cool.gif
Edited by CINERAMAX - 8/2/13 at 1:52am
post #803 of 1456
Is that an OrigenAE case above the ap20?
post #804 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdavies09031977 View Post

Yes, you can attach a seperate source to each 8 channel DB25 input, or one combined 16 channel input source, but you can't break each 8 channel module further than that (e.g. 4 x digital stereo sources), only one source per 8 channels.
That's good news. Is there a setup menu where one informs the RS-20i to think of the 16 inputs as 2x8? I only have the older AP20 manual, and it is not apparent in there.
post #805 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

That's good news. Is there a setup menu where one informs the RS-20i to think of the 16 inputs as 2x8? I only have the older AP20 manual, and it is not apparent in there.

The RS20i manual can be found here Roger:

http://www.datasatdigital.com/docs/consumer/download.php?doc_pid=916&doc_cid=893

Section 4.3.5 (page 69) outlines how this is done. Basically when creating an 'input' you have to select a source for that input. If you are inputting digitally, it appears you have the choice to select digital input channels 1-8, 9-16, 1-2 (presumably for a stereo source), 9-10 (again for a stereo source) or 1-16.

I've not tried this function myself as yet, and as I'm mid-refurb of my room, and my unit is boxed up in the garage I can't test it out at the moment.
post #806 of 1456
1-2 and 9-10 put the DD/DTS decoder in line. 1-8 and 9-16 do not do any decoding. If you select either with a DD/DTS source you will get a blast of unpleasant noise.

If I remember correctly, 1-16 is strictly a pass through. It does not use EQ, crossovers, BM, etc. Are there any consumer sources that might have more than eight AES channels?
post #807 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

1-2 and 9-10 put the DD/DTS decoder in line. 1-8 and 9-16 do not do any decoding. If you select either with a DD/DTS source you will get a blast of unpleasant noise.

If I remember correctly, 1-16 is strictly a pass through. It does not use EQ, crossovers, BM, etc. Are there any consumer sources that might have more than eight AES channels?

You'll have to excuse my ignorance here, I've not tested this out, nor really have any reason to beyond adding two channel digital sources, and don't really know how this works. However presumably if a DD/DTS signal is being transmitted in 8 separate AES/EBU channels, has the DD/DTS codec not already been decoded to PCM in the player, so under what conditions would the unpleasant noise occur? Would that just being whilst attempting to send a bit stream signal over one of the 8 channels in error?

In answer to your question also, I'm not aware of any consumer products that have more than two AES/EBU output channels - others may be aware of 8 channel products, but I've only heard of this via the butchered Oppo's with vanity cards or dedicated PC's with digital output cards.
post #808 of 1456
1 to 16 does not bypass any of the other processing as far as I can tell and certainly there are no warnings of such on the device.
post #809 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdavies09031977 View Post

The RS20i manual can be found here Roger:

http://www.datasatdigital.com/docs/consumer/download.php?doc_pid=916&doc_cid=893

Section 4.3.5 (page 69) outlines how this is done. Basically when creating an 'input' you have to select a source for that input. If you are inputting digitally, it appears you have the choice to select digital input channels 1-8, 9-16, 1-2 (presumably for a stereo source), 9-10 (again for a stereo source) or 1-16.
Thanks much for the link and details. It looks perfect for CINERAMAX's needs.
post #810 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Is that an OrigenAE case above the ap20?



It sure is.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)