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Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 33

post #961 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

Measure each channel individually and then overlay all the frequency graphs. From maybe 200Hz to10kHz the graphs should overlap very precisely. It is a more accurate way of setting Levels than using a sound pressure meter. You can also measure various combinations of speakers to make sure the polarities are correct and there is no cancellation. You can also overlay the impulse responses to check distances.

You can do that via REW with the HDMI feature.
post #962 of 1456
See post #950:

[Ceenhad] You can do it with hdmi but you lose the timing reference in REW. For this reason I do it analogue as you describe.

You can get the frequency graph for levels but not the timing for distances.
post #963 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

See post #950:

[Ceenhad] You can do it with hdmi but you lose the timing reference in REW. For this reason I do it analogue as you describe.

You can get the frequency graph for levels but not the timing for distances.
Not the case I believe.
post #964 of 1456
Copy paste from the user guide...

The other input and output channels do not need to be used for basic measurement. The response of the soundcard itself can be compensated for by taking a reference measurement with the output connected directly to the input and configuring REW to subtract that measured response from subsequent room measurements. However, it is also possible to use a loopback connection from the soundcard's left output to its left input as a timing reference for REW to automatically compensate for the time delay in the soundcard and operating system when it makes a measurement. A timing reference is required to make correct phase measurements, to compare time delays between measurements or for getting speaker delay settings correct in multi-channel systems.
post #965 of 1456
I have not checked lately but I assume the only drawback of USB mics or the hdmi input method to be the loss of timing reference. Since everything in the RS20 quickly ends up in the same processing chain I much rather have loop back accuracy - in particular when setting the sub woofer alignment.

Note you can do all the measurements on a single channel it is the comparison between channels wrt time that is lost.

Big advantage of the USB2 preamp is that loop back routing can be done internally without the need for additional cables.
post #966 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

I have not checked lately but I assume the only drawback of USB mics or the hdmi input method to be the loss of timing reference. Since everything in the RS20 quickly ends up in the same processing chain I much rather have loop back accuracy - in particular when setting the sub woofer alignment.

Note you can do all the measurements on a single channel it is the comparison between channels wrt time that is lost.

Big advantage of the USB2 preamp is that loop back routing can be done internally without the need for additional cables.

Just for clarification, even if you use the USBPre2 , you still can't get timing reference?
post #967 of 1456
Hi Dave,

I must be missing something in my posts. You can pm me if you want so we do go further OT on this thread.

To get timing ref you need a bidirectional soundcard to output both the test signal and return the loop back and microphone response. USB Pre2 does all of this easily and accurately.
post #968 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Hi Dave,

......USB Pre2 does all of this easily and accurately.
Not a problem, this answers what I was trying to say. smile.gif
post #969 of 1456
Here's a post from the always provocative Charles Hansen from the DX-5 thread on Blu-Ray playlers:

Any transport we make with an HDMI output will include Audio Rate Control (ARC, not to be confused with Audio Return Channel, which lets the audio from your TV set be piped through your stereo system. But HDMI is going to be replaced by HDBaseT anyway and the one thing missing from HDBaseT is Audio Return Channel, so no big loss.) The only problem here is that the only SSP on the market that has ARC is a Pioneer receiver, that (while excellent for the money) is far from a state-of-the-art unit. However, for those of you with big budgets, we are collaborating with DataSat so that their next generation of SSP's will have Audio Rate Control built in. But that is at least a year away.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1181755/ayre-dx-5-bluray-player/1260#post_23855444 Post 1285.

I did not realize the Audio Return Channel would be so hard to implement. More things to hurry up and wait for.........

I meant to say Audio Rate Control. Too many ARC abbreviations (thanks RD).
Edited by GGA - 10/20/13 at 8:39am
post #970 of 1456
So I wonder if the RS20i will get ARC or will it miss out as the statement relates to the 'next generation of SSPs'?
post #971 of 1456
Audio return channel is easy to incorporate. Audio rate control is the question. Another question whether it is audible. I'd really like to hear that demo!
post #972 of 1456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

So I wonder if the RS20i will get ARC or will it miss out as the statement relates to the 'next generation of SSPs'?
I don't think that statement means they will be replacing the RS20i, more so I think it means that will introduce ARC into into the unit with a possible price increase, making it a new version of RS20i. Then current owners may have the choice to upgrade, but unlike the HD expansion card which was promised ,future upgrade may incur costs.
post #973 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I don't think that statement means they will be replacing the RS20i, more so I think it means that will introduce ARC into into the unit with a possible price increase, making it a new version of RS20i. Then current owners may have the choice to upgrade, but unlike the HD expansion card which was promised ,future upgrade may incur costs.

I don't think they will be replacing the RS20i any time soon either Dave. They will need to release a HDMI 2.0 upgrade board at some point though, given how 4K seems to be moving at a pace, so if they are planning on implementing ARC it would make sense to do it at that point.

I think you can pretty much guarantee that future hardware upgrades, and possibly some future software upgrades (think Auro3D) are going to be chargeable. Which is fair enough really - the licensing fees, component costs and R&D costs have to be recovered from somewhere.
post #974 of 1456
"Which is fair enough really - the licensing fees, component costs and R&D costs have to be recovered from somewhere."

Lower the price and you will get more customers...or make similar pricing structure all over the world so more people to jump in...It still bothers me how many customers they are missing in Australia!
post #975 of 1456
A little question for RS20i owners and or NEO X users.

I have noticed that on mainly 5.1 DD sources that when using neox 9.1 with heights, that there is virtually no side information being sent to the sides. All seems to go to the rears and that sometimes it sends far too much to the heights. For example a back ground music track will quite often be playing thru the heights only.

If I switch to pl2z I get the sides as I should and very little to the heights. Just what should be there.

If I play a 5.1/7.1 blu ray using HD audio codecs I find neo x works as I imagine it should.

Does this sound like a bug or is this just how neo x works?
post #976 of 1456
How do people think this group is going fully digital for movies?

http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/
post #977 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

A little question for RS20i owners and or NEO X users.

I have noticed that on mainly 5.1 DD sources that when using neox 9.1 with heights, that there is virtually no side information being sent to the sides. All seems to go to the rears and that sometimes it sends far too much to the heights. For example a back ground music track will quite often be playing thru the heights only.

If I switch to pl2z I get the sides as I should and very little to the heights. Just what should be there.

If I play a 5.1/7.1 blu ray using HD audio codecs I find neo x works as I imagine it should.

Does this sound like a bug or is this just how neo x works?

Sorry Nick - haven't yet expanded beyond 7.1 so can't help you out with any testing.
post #978 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

How do people think this group is going fully digital for movies?

http://www.coreaudiotechnology.com/

They are taking the digital AES/ EBU signal from the RS20i and using that as input to PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) amplifers. Audio PWM amplifiers are very similar in design to Class D switching amplifiers but take digital input as apposed to an analog input.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #979 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

A little question for RS20i owners and or NEO X users.

I have noticed that on mainly 5.1 DD sources that when using neox 9.1 with heights, that there is virtually no side information being sent to the sides. All seems to go to the rears and that sometimes it sends far too much to the heights. For example a back ground music track will quite often be playing thru the heights only.

If I switch to pl2z I get the sides as I should and very little to the heights. Just what should be there.

If I play a 5.1/7.1 blu ray using HD audio codecs I find neo x works as I imagine it should.

Does this sound like a bug or is this just how neo x works?
It sounds like there is a difference between the content being delivered with DD vs. HD codecs. Is the DD from TV? Any chance you have a Blu-ray with a companion DVD of the same title -- that would make it easy to eliminate the codec from the equation. Once done, we have to look at the nature of the DD source audio/mix.
post #980 of 1456
Ah, I'll have a look see what blu rays I have that come with DVD copy. Good idea.

But yes mostly its DD5.1 content from TiVo. But also on some DVDs.
post #981 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

They are taking the digital AES/ EBU signal from the RS20i and using that as input to PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) amplifers. Audio PWM amplifiers are very similar in design to Class D switching amplifiers but take digital input as apposed to an analog input.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Thx Carl
post #982 of 1456
CoreAudio have a youtude video featuring the RS20i - that 'expert' set up screen look's interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWuNdxTcOoQ
post #983 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

CoreAudio have a youtude video featuring the RS20i - that 'expert' set up screen look's interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWuNdxTcOoQ

Yeah nice little breakdown/review of the RS20i that Stephen - I assume the 'expert' screen has been manually created somehow - looks like a load of short-cut buttons to save trailing through the normal menu structure.
post #984 of 1456
It's just in expert nav mode which is an option in the setup menu for those that want to try it.
post #985 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

CoreAudio have a youtude video featuring the RS20i - that 'expert' set up screen look's interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWuNdxTcOoQ

The 'expert screen' has been there since Day 1. It in fact was the first menu screen that was created. The familiar menu tree that everyone uses came later.
_______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #986 of 1456
Sorry im a newbie here.

Does the unit come with a microphone for the setup or does one need to purchase the microphone from Datasat Directly?
post #987 of 1456
Thread Starter 
I am not sure if customers can get the measurement hardware from DataSat any more, but previously you had to pay $2,500 for the mic ,preamp etc.
post #988 of 1456
Does anyone know why Dirac emits a white noise during calibration for the RS20i yet emits a pulse like noise (similiar to that used by Audyssey) in other versions of its software?
post #989 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

Does anyone know why Dirac emits a white noise during calibration for the RS20i yet emits a pulse like noise (similiar to that used by Audyssey) in other versions of its software?

The stimulus signal (as our friends in Sweden call it) is pink noise with an embedded marker for version 1 of their software and is a short sweep in their version 2 of their software. The Datasat AP20 & RS20i are both using version 1. The PC software and the addin card for the Theta Casa uses version 2. As I understand it the change to a sweep was an internal software convenience for Dirac and nothing more. From a users prospective the version 2 sweeps take a little less time.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #990 of 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

The stimulus signal (as our friends in Sweden call it) is pink noise with an embedded marker for version 1 of their software and is a short sweep in their version 2 of their software. The Datasat AP20 & RS20i are both using version 1. The PC software and the addin card for the Theta Casa uses version 2. As I understand it the change to a sweep was an internal software convenience for Dirac and nothing more. From a users prospective the version 2 sweeps take a little less time.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

And what version will the DL2 use LOL... tongue.gif
Edited by sdrucker - 11/16/13 at 9:44pm
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)