New Epson 5020 owner, Da-Lite HCHP 106" screen w/room, zoom, offset & placement questions

1.  More zoom makes the pic larger.

 

2.  For most pj's, having it as close to the screen as possible will give the brightest pic; in this case you will need to be near full zoom.    But I would plan on giving a bit of leeway and not being at the absolute extreme of the zoom range.

 

3. Just make sure the pj is square to the screen and use whatever lens shift you need.

 

4.  With the HP screen, you get max brightness if the pj is as close to your eyeballs as possible.   This typically means having it show just above and behind your heads, if this is possible.

Since you bought the HCHP screen-- do you notice any nonuniformity in the grey? Or any blotchiness? This used to be a problem before; I wonder if they've fixed it. I'm still toying between buying a HP or HCHP screen; would prefer the latter for better blacks, but only if they problem's been fixed.

Easy to see any nonuniformity in pans in bright scenes.

Thanks!

Thanks! I anxiously await your report

Thanks for the report!

If you only see it in dark scenes, it's likely not the screen. Defects in the screen are typically most visible in bright/white scenes.

In the end, it's either your projector or your screen... either of which sucks :-P Is your lens dirty? Then again, you said on a dark image... Epson/Panasonics can have dust blob problems since they're LCD. I've personally never seen a dust blob.

nicholfd: I got my 110" HCHP screen. While its contrast is fantastic given my light-colored walls/ceilings, it has a really distracting texture that shows up as vertical & horizontal striations in pans of smooth skies & other bright areas. In video games, it's almost apparent all the time to me.

You sure you don't see any of this? Easy to see in some of the bright clouds with moving camera in 'Dark Knight Rises' (Nolan/Pfister's cameras are always moving so it's a good disc to see the effect). Or pop in a video game and move around & look at the skies.

I'm sending the material back; just don't know if I should try another HCHP screen & keep swapping out until I find one with unoffensive texture (does one even exist, or are those claiming to not see texture on the HCHP screen simply not sensitive to screen texture?), or just get the HP (for which I've heard no complaints on AVS).

BTW: It's hard to take a picture of the texture, since it's really only mostly visible in moving scenes, but I took this shot & boosted the contrast a lot so you can get an idea of what the texture looks like. The vertical strips you see here & there correlate to exactly where I see them in moving/panning scenes. Also, to make sure it was the screen & not the projector, I moved the whole screen back and forth and sure enough, those striations followed the screen movement. So it's definitely the screen.


Link: http://cl.ly/LuTw/HCHP-Texture.jpg

sarangiman, I have a 92" HPHC Deluxe Model B and I'm having the same exact issue. I'm also thinking about returning it. Maybe we're just more sensitive compared to others with this material.

Thanks for the feedback.

I did a quick HCHP vs. HP comparison tonight at extreme viewing angles to see how much better the HCHP is at scattering *less* light to extreme angles (i.e. stuff that'd hit walls/ceilings). I took measurements of an HP patch placed on top of the HCHP screen at the center, and took measurements of the HCHP material immediately to one side of the HP patch (not ideal, but should be close enough).

Here's a graph of the ratio of HCHP to HP intensity at different viewing angles (measured with protractor):



Straight on, the HCHP shows ~84% the intensity of the HP. This is pretty much what I consistently see in my setup.

However, at 70º, the HCHP shows 69% the intensity of the HP. That's a 15% drop in comparative intensity between HCHP and HP as we moved from 0º to 70º viewing angle. I believe one could interpret this as meaning that the HCHP, compared to HP, may roughly scatter 15% less light to walls/ceilings at a 70º angle (in my setup, anyway). Do you agree? So this, in addition to its grey base, could help maintain better contrast in light-colored rooms.

The question is: is this 15% worth the headache of trying to find a HCHP surface without texture?

FYI if the HCHP/HP screens had similar viewing angles, I believe the graph above would've been flat, with no slope. Yes?
Edited by sarangiman - 1/3/13 at 2:47pm

I haven't seen the HCHP material in person yet. I don't see this issue with the older 2.8 HP material. When I watch the Art of Flight on the 142" 2.8HP, the image overall looks solid with no obvious artifacts during pans of the snow filled mountains. It would stand out given the screen size, brightness and close seating distance. My friends 106" 2.4 HP looks similar as well.

Zombie, is his screen a roll up screen or is it a fixed screen? I'm thinking that could be causing the issues.

Yeah try looking for it in the bright clouds in the opening IMAX scenes of TDKR. Also, have any video games with skies in them? The low contrast of video games will make it particularly easy to see the texture (any extra texture/noise in films masks the HCHP texture... video games are typically smooth/clean/low texture).

Btw, mine's a Cinema Contour 110" fixed screen. So I doubt it has anything to do with fixed vs. roll-up.

nicholfd's experience makes me want to try another HCHP. I feel myself wanting even darker blacks than I'm getting right now, so I'm fairly certain I'd be displeased with a HP given my light colored walls/ceilings (and like I said, I hated my velvet curtain set up so I tore it down... too ugly).

Texture on a HP screen? How can this be? So many think its the perfect screen material. I would ignore these posters as some sort of extreme minority.


OK. OK.

I am actually goung to order in a 110" pull down HP screen to mount in front of my fixed 110" Snowmat.

I am doing this for two purposes. One for watching 3D movies at brightness levels significantly in excess of the industry standard (which is low of course because of technological display lumens limitations). It will be nice to have 3D as bright as 2D on my 1.0 gain screen and I am willing to put up with the adverse effects on PQ caused by the HP. After all, its 3D, viewed through glasses, yada yada.

The second reason is to show all what one loses using the HP over a 1.0 gain reference screen assuming you have enough light to light the 1.0 gain screen and use it in a black pit.

From the recent examples, it looks like the HCHP has a more noticeable texture than the original 2.8HP or the current 2.4HP.

airscapes posted a microscopic closeup of the original 2.8 vs the 2.4. You can see the original beads are more consistent in size and closely spaced. It looks like they changed this with the 2.4, the beads are various sizes and randomly placed.

Plus the 5020 is quite bright for a relatively small 106" screen so it's going to make the surface texture more obvious with the intense brightness.

2.8 vs 2.4. I'd like to see a closeup of the HCHP. My 2.8 looks nothing like the examples I've seen posted, it's quite solid overall during 'The Art of Flight' which is primarily white, snow filled mountains. This is the disk to test for screen texture.

Well I am going to get the non HC , just the HP 2.4 and I do not plan to view it under a microscope.

Rather than trying to see screen texture when most don't have any clue as to what screen texture means, no its not that if you get close enough its looks like orange fruit skin rather than an orange gum ball, its what's the texture (even though you cannot see the texture) does to the image. I can't explain it any better than that. How does it screw up the image rather than can you see the flaw that screws up the image and how do you know the image is screwed up unless you know what a non screwed image looks like.

OK Ok. You guys life in glass cages and I have to put my glass cutter away. I am going to watch football and my projector and screen will make it look like I was sitting in a box at the game with no glass in the window but somehow able to see everything up close .Have a nice day.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/6/13 at 1:23pm

The first link is the right one. I'm not sure what equipment was used for that photo, check with 'airscapes' in the HCHP thread in the screens forum.

The Art of Flight is one of the cleanest sources i've seen, excellent for checking projector quality, etc.

The texture should be very obvious in bright, non-detailed, panning scenes. You shouldn't have to stand close, or at an angle. If it's there it'll most likely be visible from your normal sitting position/viewing distance. In fact, I'm willing to bet it's more obvious at further viewing distances, where you can see the entire screen & judge that there's obviously some sort of fixed pattern noise overlaid on top of the signal.

Btw, this is about as magnified a shot as I can get of the HCHP material at home with my macro set up, short of a microscope:


I don't know if the seemingly different colored beads are actually differently shaded, or if it's just a lighting artifact (I had to shine a bright LED light source to get rid of motion at these magnifications, since it wasn't a steadied optical setup like a microscope).

Jeez Mark, what's with you lately....put down your flask of HP hatorade. He was talking about his Da-Lite HCHP screen.

To make it really obvious, just pop in a car racing game and play a level with a lot of skies. If you have texture, you can't miss it.

Mark, I don't think we went looking for flaws in the screen. It's something that is on occasion noticeable without the intention of looking for it. Luckily this screen isn't very expensive. My screen has developed some vertical waves on the bottom right corner. I'm going to contact Da-Lite on Monday and see if I can get some sort of replacement. I plan on mentioning the visible texture just to see what they say. Hopefully my replacement isn't as bad.

You know with this "elitist" thing you're into with your perfect new screen and any deviations from that surface, we all really just think we like our other materials, but you know better..... is starting to sound a lot like the guy across the Pond you were taking exception with for his puritanism. The guy who reviews equipment for a living in addition to being a "video guru" . His take on him reviewing a Darblet: Sure. Someone send me one. When I can get to it. But what's the point?? "It's "like asking a vegetarian (vegan?) to give a review on eating a steak". Said with a whole bunch of smiles because of the vibe and fun you normally bring.

Ron. Many many people own Darbee;s and have freely reported their viewing impressions based on on/off and various levels of the Darbee settings.

With screens, people buy something and wax euphorac about it. I like it so much better than my last screen. Or
gosh golly, I bought it and its perfect. I do not see any thing wrong. Well I have the ability to do A/Bs with screens and having a reference quality projector to light them with.

Without the ability to compare under the same conditions one can not draw any necessarily valid conclusions. Simply put the Da-lite HP up against Snowmat. The HP will be much brighter but then tell me about the other things. Most would say what other thing? I can calibrate the colors perfectly. OK. OK. the black reference level will be high but the on/off will be the same. Its perfect. I would say these people need to see and evaluate the PQ of snomatt or JKP Affinity 1.1and then see if their HP has equally good or close to equally good PQ aspects other than brightness. Which PQ is better. Which is more realistic. Are yiu aware that you are lighting screen material with one or the other. My continued attack is because people are reaching a judgement with having a reference level. They don't know how the HP fabric detracts from image quality. Its a good choice for eople who want a really bright picture in 2D or 3D with a screen size that can't otherwise be lit by their projector choice. Its a good choice for other than black pit rooms. But if you have the lumens and the right room, one will giving up an awful lot if they choose HP.