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Chad B's custom test patterns - Page 2

post #31 of 161
1/2/13 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I'll look into that I think my Sony might have that capability, do I need to worry about any conversion errors etc ? Could you put on an SD card and use the tv interface ?

when you just put the picture files on thumb drive and play, a lot of players will output 60Hz not 24Hz. Check this before wasting time.
If Your player supports MP4 or MKV correctly (24Hz output, beware some do 60Hz with media files), i can convert the images for you in one of the formats.
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post #32 of 161
1/2/13 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

when you just put the picture files on thumb drive and play, a lot of players will output 60Hz not 24Hz. Check this before wasting time.
If Your player supports MP4 or MKV correctly (24Hz output, beware some do 60Hz with media files), i can convert the images for you in one of the formats.

What would be the side effect of playing them at 60hz ?
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post #33 of 161
1/2/13 at 9:22am
RGB levels are quite different to 24Hz.
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post #34 of 161
1/2/13 at 9:28am
Can anyone explain a logical reason why RGB colors should be any different at a given output resolution. I understand the encoding might be different depending on compression.. this still sounds a little weird too me. On many displays you are going to get 60hz regardless of the input resolution. Is this frame rate conversion errors?
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post #35 of 161
1/2/13 at 11:40am
think it depends on the panels output frequency. What's the exact reason regarding TVs signal processing I don't know. For my Pana VT50EU 24Hz input is displayed with 96Hz and 60Hz input with 60Hz and 50Hz input with 100Hz.

Here are the results using standard 10% windows:
24Hz


60Hz
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post #36 of 161
1/2/13 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

think it depends on the panels output frequency. What's the exact reason regarding TVs signal processing I don't know. For my Pana VT50EU 24Hz input is displayed with 96Hz and 60Hz input with 60Hz and 50Hz input with 100Hz.
Here are the results using standard 10% windows:
24Hz

60Hz

Do you see these effects on color gamut as well as grayscale? I did mean to say frequency and not resolution in previous question. Is this just another Plasma quirk or is this very stange behaviour common LED/LCD panels as well?
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post #37 of 161
1/2/13 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

think it depends on the panels output frequency. What's the exact reason regarding TVs signal processing I don't know. For my Pana VT50EU 24Hz input is displayed with 96Hz and 60Hz input with 60Hz and 50Hz input with 100Hz.
Here are the results using standard 10% windows:
24Hz

60Hz
If you look at the RGB values closely, you'll see that these are tiny, tiny differences that are surely below the threshold of visibility. You have scaled the chart in such a way that very small differences look large.

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post #38 of 161
1/2/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

If you look at the RGB values closely, you'll see that these are tiny, tiny differences that are surely below the threshold of visibility. You have scaled the chart in such a way that very small differences look large.

Tom so in your opinion the 24hz vs 60hz difference is not worth worrying about ?
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post #39 of 161
1/2/13 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

when you just put the picture files on thumb drive and play, a lot of players will output 60Hz not 24Hz. Check this before wasting time.
If Your player supports MP4 or MKV correctly (24Hz output, beware some do 60Hz with media files), i can convert the images for you in one of the formats.

I can play mp4 or mkv apparently if you can convert I would owe you one smile.gif
Edited by chunon - 1/2/13 at 4:34pm
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post #40 of 161
1/2/13 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Tom so in your opinion the 24hz vs 60hz difference is not worth worrying about ?
Too small to make any serious difference.
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post #41 of 161
1/2/13 at 11:04pm
I haven't heard anyone calibrating seperately for 24hz and 60hz, so it seems like there isn't too much difference, which is good as my brp displays avs709 at 60hz, not 24.
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post #42 of 161
1/3/13 at 2:36am
Hey Tom,

thanks for the comment. Maybe my worries about that are senseless, and not relevant. I don't want to stress this out and of course it's all OT. On previous Pana VT30 differences were bigger (maybe also still under visible value) but didn't have the measurings yet. I found older ones from VT20. TV was calibrated at 60Hz and chart is dE UV.

24Hz:


60Hz:


I would appreciate comment again.

@chunon: do You need all pattern or just one (which) set?
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post #43 of 161
1/3/13 at 4:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Hey Tom,
thanks for the comment. Maybe my worries about that are senseless, and not relevant. I don't want to stress this out and of course it's all OT. On previous Pana VT30 differences were bigger (maybe also still under visible value) but didn't have the measurings yet. I found older ones from VT20. TV was calibrated at 60Hz and chart is dE UV.
24Hz:

60Hz:

I would appreciate comment again.
@chunon: do You need all pattern or just one (which) set?

If it wouldn't be too much trouble all of them including the custom test patterns, thank you smile.gif Actually don't really need the APL just the 4% windows and custom test pattterns.
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post #44 of 161
1/4/13 at 3:13pm
Hello chunon,

here are Your videos. I had to rename the files to match my existing scripts, otherwise much more work. But file names are logical according to stimulus level and color.
Any issues please feedback, but I guess everything should be fine.

edit: removed links
Edited by DrFaxe - 1/4/13 at 4:56pm
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post #45 of 161
1/4/13 at 4:15pm
Copied them over to thumb drive they appear to play but blank screen? Any ideas ? They play on my tv wierd
Edited by chunon - 1/4/13 at 4:44pm
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post #46 of 161
1/4/13 at 4:56pm
sorry for that and strange some how. Verified them using VLC. Please try the mp4 version, if OK will do new encoding of the complete sets.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3m1y74
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post #47 of 161
1/4/13 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

sorry for that and strange some how. Verified them using VLC. Please try the mp4 version, if OK will do new encoding of the complete sets.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3m1y74

those work thanks my friend
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post #48 of 161
1/5/13 at 6:42am
finally the mp4 version. Randomly checked the levels, all OK to me, as I don`t want You to mess up Your calibration. Encoding process and settings are exactly the same as used for the AVSHD mp4 files.

all-in-one package:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/o340xe
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post #49 of 161
1/5/13 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

finally the mp4 version. Randomly checked the levels, all OK to me, as I don`t want You to mess up Your calibration. Encoding process and settings are exactly the same as used for the AVSHD mp4 files.
all-in-one package:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/o340xe

You are too kind my friend, I owe you one for sure, let me know if I can ever return the favor in some way.
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post #50 of 161
1/5/13 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

finally the mp4 version. Randomly checked the levels, all OK to me, as I don`t want You to mess up Your calibration. Encoding process and settings are exactly the same as used for the AVSHD mp4 files.
all-in-one package:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/o340xe

Is this available for everyone? If so that link does not work.
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post #51 of 161
1/5/13 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Is this available for everyone? If so that link does not work.

I downloaded them with no issues
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post #52 of 161
1/5/13 at 7:05am
right click and open in new window/tab or copy the entire link to adress bar directly. Obviously left click also doesn't work in my Firefox. Internet Explorer work. Seems to be a Browser incompatibility.
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post #53 of 161
1/5/13 at 8:25am
That was weird.. ok, thanks I got it, popup block doing it's thing without prompting..
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post #54 of 161
1/10/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

finally the mp4 version. Randomly checked the levels, all OK to me, as I don`t want You to mess up Your calibration. Encoding process and settings are exactly the same as used for the AVSHD mp4 files.

all-in-one package:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/o340xe

These worked pretty well for me or at least I think they did lol, limited by my i1d2 I think it has drifted. Thanks again
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post #55 of 161
2/7/13 at 6:30am
Quick question..

I know this isn't the right way to do this, but the wife factor still has not allowed a meter to be bought yet, so..

I have had Chad before do one of my tvs and he was great at what he did, so I was really interested when I saw these patterns from him.

Now to the point. On my LGLW5600, I took a look at the Color bars in the Custom Patterns. I know it is the wrong approach, but I was playing around with my CMS and the TV's color filters. I was using the Color and tint in the CMS to try and by eye( i know) dial the primaries and secondaries in some.
I think it actually made an improvement. Is this possible or just my thinking. I can't get it right of course, but it seemed to get closer.

With the red filter on the TV, I was able to get the yellow box to blend completely with the background of red by adding and subtracting the Yellow color and Yellow tint, but the Magenta is still a small bit off. Cyan is blended nice with the Green Filter, but yellow is a small bit off. Stuff like that. Seems my Primaries would need adjusted more to make it closer, but you get the idea.

Is this really stupid to do this? If I had the free cash right now, this would be mute and I would have a meter, but right now, just seeing if this is something that has been tried.

I am sure there is someone out there who has tried to do this without a meter. If I knew which way to go with the primaries now to fix those little differences in the Magentas and yellows and stuff, I think I would be ok.

It is ok to tell me this is not the right way to do it. I already know I can't get it right without equipment. Just wondering if anyone has looked at this pattern from Chad and tried this.

BTW, Thanks Chad for doing these.
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post #56 of 161
2/7/13 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Quick question..

I know this isn't the right way to do this, but the wife factor still has not allowed a meter to be bought yet, so..

I have had Chad before do one of my tvs and he was great at what he did, so I was really interested when I saw these patterns from him.

Now to the point. On my LGLW5600, I took a look at the Color bars in the Custom Patterns. I know it is the wrong approach, but I was playing around with my CMS and the TV's color filters. I was using the Color and tint in the CMS to try and by eye( i know) dial the primaries and secondaries in some.
I think it actually made an improvement. Is this possible or just my thinking. I can't get it right of course, but it seemed to get closer.

With the red filter on the TV, I was able to get the yellow box to blend completely with the background of red by adding and subtracting the Yellow color and Yellow tint, but the Magenta is still a small bit off. Cyan is blended nice with the Green Filter, but yellow is a small bit off. Stuff like that. Seems my Primaries would need adjusted more to make it closer, but you get the idea.

Is this really stupid to do this? If I had the free cash right now, this would be mute and I would have a meter, but right now, just seeing if this is something that has been tried.

I am sure there is someone out there who has tried to do this without a meter. If I knew which way to go with the primaries now to fix those little differences in the Magentas and yellows and stuff, I think I would be ok.

It is ok to tell me this is not the right way to do it. I already know I can't get it right without equipment. Just wondering if anyone has looked at this pattern from Chad and tried this.

BTW, Thanks Chad for doing these.

Your LG has the same filter option like mine LW4500 and it could be an alternative using this for CMS without a meter (as you probably know with grayscale you need a meter)

My question is how does it looks without doing a grayscale calibration?.

Using the LG filter option for CMS has made me curious because i can check this method with my i1pro spectro meter (when i have some free time)

best regards
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post #57 of 161
2/7/13 at 2:12pm
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately, on the LG LEDs using the visual method with the color filter function never quite agree with what the meter and software report. They are somewhat close, but optimizing all the graphs will make some colors look a bit off with the visual method.
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post #58 of 161
2/8/13 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Unfortunately, on the LG LEDs using the visual method with the color filter function never quite agree with what the meter and software report. They are somewhat close, but optimizing all the graphs will make some colors look a bit off with the visual method.

Chad,

thank you for your comment on this.

At least the filter option does not alter during time like the plastic ones:)
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post #59 of 161
2/8/13 at 6:51am
I honestly couldn't tell you what happened with the grayscale after messing with the CMS this way. I forgot to check again and haven't been back in.

I can see what Chad is saying with the TV filter, I think. I see lots of the reviews on the normal sites claiming to calibrate the TV with the BT709 spec. When I do that, I always end up at Color 50 and Tint G+2. If I use the Standard spec, it is Color 50 Tint centered. I wonder if that is because of the color filter on the TV.

I tried using the filter glasses from way back that I had with original DVE. Those were not going to get it done now at all, so the TV Blue filter is still the best option for me.

I still really like the patterns Chad has given us. If this had a grayscale and color clipping pattern, they would be all I would try.

Still need to try and talk the wife into a meter... frown.gif
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post #60 of 161
2/10/13 at 11:20am
Chad B I have this workflow from you that I copied for my refrence/guide does this apply to D series of the Samsung plasma's?

Start with TV in movie mode; reset to get to baselines (contrast 95, gamma 0, enhancements off, etc).

Leave contrast at 95 and gamma at 0. Adjust brightness with a low APL pluge pattern. Adjust backlight for LED and Cell Light for plasma for target luminance.

Adjust 2 pt white balance, using 100% for the high end adjustment and either 20 or 30% (your preference, could also be determined by your meter's low end sensitivity) at the low end. Only cut, do not boost 2 pt WB controls. In other words, all numbers should be at or below 25. You should have 100% pretty close to perfect. Re-check brightness with low APL pluge.

Take a full 10 or 11 step run. If gamma is close to target, then proceed. If not, then select a different gamma setting to find one that's closer, and re-check brightness. Then re-measure. Repeat as necessary. After correct gamma preset is found, re-check 2 pt white balance, then re-check brightness.

Then do the 10 pt adjustment, starting at 100% and working your way down. You should not have to make an adjustment at 100%.

In the 10 pt adjustment, use G to flatten gamma, and match R and B to G.

After that is complete, re-check brightness. If a large correction was necessary at 10%, you may need to re-tweak brightness.

Take another 10 or 11 step measurement. You will find areas that need further improvement, so you will have to repeat until you are as close as you want to be or until you reach the point of diminishing returns.
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