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Total Recall (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 7

post #181 of 212
1/23/13 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

Well, it's my understanding Sony has not produced a replacement disc so it's doubtful that Amazon would have a replacement. When Sony put out the bulliten explaining the problem, according to them anyway, and offering a work around and/or a disc exchange they had not yet even produced a replacement disc but were probably waiting on receiver and blu ray player manufacturers to put out a firmware update.

I wouldn't be waiting on an actuall replacement disc that will work any differently than this one from Sony or anybody else. That's what I gather from all of this.

Al
Of course DO exercise healthy skepticism, but the SONY spokesperson I talked to reported to me that they did have discs available now, that exist, that were produced to address this phenomenon, and that there would be a three to five week turnaround from the point of dispatch of your original purchase back to them, to recieving the new one. Then they proceeded to layer on the complications (for me) -- information gathering, use of FEDEX, etc. -- which made the AMAZON return a better alternative.
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post #182 of 212
1/23/13 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

Of course DO exercise healthy skepticism, but the SONY spokesperson I talked to reported to me that they did have discs available now, that exist, that were produced to address this phenomenon, and that there would be a three to five week turnaround from the point of dispatch of your original purchase back to them, to recieving the new one. Then they proceeded to layer on the complications (for me) -- information gathering, use of FEDEX, etc. -- which made the AMAZON return a better alternative.

Well hell, if they have a newly produced disc then why would they tell you it would take three to five weeks to get one from the time they get your old disc back?

I like my "healthy skepticism" better. In fact, of the guys on the Blu Ray forum who sent there disc back to Sony and received a replacement disc, they received a disc with the same upc code number as the original disc. Maybe I'm wrong about this but that's how I see it.

I sincerely hope you get a newly produced disc that works for you.

Al
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post #183 of 212
1/24/13 at 3:53am
^^^I did return my original purchase to AMAZON yesterday. Might wait some on the reorder from them, but part of that is coming across something I want to pair the purchase with to bring it to $25, the other part is letting some more time pass for good measure. All I can report to you is that I did try and nail down from the SONY rep if the corrected discs actually exist at this point in time, and got the definitive, if possibly not true, statement that they do, and would be sent out along that quoted time frame, which I assume is a standard buffer to allow for shipping delays etc.

Before they resorted to offering the replacement however, they did suggest I go the route of updating my player's firmware. It is a SONY as well, and I told them it showed itself as having the latest firmware. The rep then said the firmware to fix the issue was in the works still, so clearly there was some effort to confuse on that score. But when I asked him pointedly and directly about the existence of the corrected discs, he was definitive (again, while possibly "inaccurate").

I am curious in your response above however, why you do not state whether the replacement discs you refer to exhibit the audio issue? Why would someone report on the UPC code without saying whether it still had the audio issue? I myself don't know enough about UPC code protocols to know whether a corrected disc reissue might bear the same code, but the issue of importance is the audio dropout one.

Also, why would SONY replace a defective with the same defective? -- they acknowledged that they were aware of the problem, knew of the workarounds -- do you imagine that they thought this was all in the public's mind? -- that some little fiddling with sleight of hand would solve the complaint? Frankly, that makes much less sense to me, but this is all speculation anyway until one of the replacing parties cares to confess that the problem was answered with the replacement, instead of just making observations about the possibly irrelevant UPC code.
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post #184 of 212
1/24/13 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

^^^I did return my original purchase to AMAZON yesterday. Might wait some on the reorder from them, but part of that is coming across something I want to pair the purchase with to bring it to $25, the other part is letting some more time pass for good measure. All I can report to you is that I did try and nail down from the SONY rep if the corrected discs actually exist at this point in time, and got the definitive, if possibly not true, statement that they do, and would be sent out along that quoted time frame, which I assume is a standard buffer to allow for shipping delays etc.

Before they resorted to offering the replacement however, they did suggest I go the route of updating my player's firmware. It is a SONY as well, and I told them it showed itself as having the latest firmware. The rep then said the firmware to fix the issue was in the works still, so clearly there was some effort to confuse on that score. But when I asked him pointedly and directly about the existence of the corrected discs, he was definitive (again, while possibly "inaccurate").

I am curious in your response above however, why you do not state whether the replacement discs you refer to exhibit the audio issue? Why would someone report on the UPC code without saying whether it still had the audio issue? I myself don't know enough about UPC code protocols to know whether a corrected disc reissue might bear the same code, but the issue of importance is the audio dropout one.

Also, why would SONY replace a defective with the same defective? -- they acknowledged that they were aware of the problem, knew of the workarounds -- do you imagine that they thought this was all in the public's mind? -- that some little fiddling with sleight of hand would solve the complaint? Frankly, that makes much less sense to me, but this is all speculation anyway until one of the replacing parties cares to confess that the problem was answered with the replacement, instead of just making observations about the possibly irrelevant UPC code.
Yeah, this disc issue is a very confusing thing to me and from what I've been reading it is the same thing for everybody involved in it. I don't know the first thing about how UPC codes work with or without a replacement disc involved. Reading the Blu Ray forum it seems they don't really know either.
I'd just like to say if I had to return a disc, which I don't because I use my player with PCM mode, I would do exactly as you alluded to and wait until someone actually comes clean and really takes responsibility for this cluster #@x%! And yes, I think Sony is capable of anything including sending out replacement disc that are the same as the original and anything else they could do to save money.
There is one thing that would concern me though. I might at least send Sony an email and let them know I am not happy with the disc so I'd have something to fall back on if Sony puts off this issue for an extended period of time.

Al
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post #185 of 212
1/24/13 at 12:05pm
I suppose SONY might replace the defective with another defective, but I can't imagine why -- if someone was concerned enough about it to report the original glitch and go through the hoops of returning it, what purpose does it serve to put the consumer through all that again? Not to mention so many folks have complained that SONY at least feels obligated to come up with a "cover story" of producing a glitch-free disc -- where would it get them to apparently acknowledge the obligation, but fail to deliver when they promise the solution?

Anyway, just before resubmitting mine to AMAZON, I went for a spin through the TRU HD then to PCM. Not hearing the same things -- with PCM, transparency is affected, highs not as sparkling, lows considerably diminished. Of course it is not as loud, so I turn it up -- better, but still not the same and I don't want to keep pushing volume because at some point or another I am risking my subs overblowing and I don't know what that point is out of my standard reference volume, where everything in TRU HD mode is easily one of the best tracks I've heard this year -- pushes just the right amount of LFE, which is say: slams you against a wall without overdriving the subs -- probably just on that brink -- PERFECT! At my standard reference volume, this Dolby track SINGS! (then goes silent, then SINGS! then goes silent...)

So I don't know how long I can manage without this disc in my collection, but when I make my move I will be sure to post back here. BTW, AMAZON'S suggestion was to send back the one, reorder and if that is the same stock, return that one too -- pretty low risk, takes another trip to the UPS dropoff if it is a no-go, so I'll hold a short while longer then go for it...
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post #186 of 212
1/24/13 at 1:01pm
According to the email that was received on Jan. 7 by "nolfoc" on the Blu-ray.com forum Sony says "We are currently in the process of reproducing Bluray disks that will not have these sound issues". Maybe they did or maybe they are still in the process and just sent some originals as replacements for the time being.
The more I think about it the more I think that in the end they will send out replaements that will work for everybody. Amazon is probably the way to go then because if you don't get a playable disc this time you'll probably get one the next time you send it back.
I really can't see Sony not taking care of this either. Eventually everybody who wants to will be able to get a disc that will play in all modes. Just my ever changing opinion.

Al
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post #187 of 212
1/27/13 at 10:02am
What I find strange, or weirdly funny; as the Sony BD rep keeps saying to wait for a firmware fix (meaning they ARE 100% aware of this problem), and I have their Sony BDP S790 BD player,. . . . . . You'd think I would already have the fix update before any other brands! Yet when I check for updates daily, nothing new! Duh!
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post #188 of 212
1/27/13 at 1:43pm
I just got through watching this a little while ago. I had completely forgotten about the audio dropout issue, so I had to change my OPPO BDP-93 to LPCM to fix it. After that, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I liked the subtle throwbacks to the original movie, which I also really enjoyed. Thanks for the review, Ralph. This one's a keeper!!
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post #189 of 212
2/3/13 at 8:46am
I sent Sony an email 2 weeks ago requesting the defective disc be replaced. They replied back with the standard reply "use LPCM mode" and "contact mfgr for firmware update" - and had already mentioned it was their player, the S790.

Replied back twice now, and not a peep back from them since the original reply. Even explained how this is a known issue, with a replacement being made now, and nothing. Guess next step is to either call them directly this time, or perhaps wait till Best Buy gets the newer discs in and exchange there.

Has anyone received their replacement yet? If so, is there a NEW UPC code for it? If so, could you please post that new UPC code for the rest of us? Thank you!
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post #190 of 212
2/7/13 at 11:45am
So it would seem the first batch of discs are more akin to "Total Reject" for some folks. Sorry to hear it.
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post #191 of 212
2/7/13 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mice View Post

So it would seem the first batch of discs are more akin to "Total Reject" for some folks. Sorry to hear it.
Can you provide a link to the source of that information?
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post #192 of 212
2/8/13 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

Can you provide a link to the source of that information?

I was merely going through the posts regarding audio issues in this topic.
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post #193 of 212
2/9/13 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mice View Post

I was merely going through the posts regarding audio issues in this topic.
Oh sorry, I misinterpreted your post to mean the "first batch of replacement discs..." which after re-reading you clearly did not mean.
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post #194 of 212
2/10/13 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

Oh sorry, I misinterpreted your post to mean the "first batch of replacement discs..." which after re-reading you clearly did not mean.

Hey, no worries, we've all done that at one point or another!
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post #195 of 212
2/10/13 at 9:52am
I almost bought it at Target, but remembered this thread. How can a person tell if the product is the old version or the "fixed" one?
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post #196 of 212
2/10/13 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie1210 View Post

I almost bought it at Target, but remembered this thread. How can a person tell if the product is the old version or the "fixed" one?

There are no "fixed" versions. Not that I'm aware of anyway.


Al
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post #197 of 212
2/10/13 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

There are no "fixed" versions. Not that I'm aware of anyway.


Al

Ok. I thought maybe they had issued one by now. I guess its every man for himself, man the lifeboats! Buyer beware. Pays your money and takes your chances. smile.gif
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post #198 of 212
2/10/13 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

There are no "fixed" versions. Not that I'm aware of anyway.
Al
Well, again: the SONY spokesperson I spoke to ASSURED me, on very direct questioning, that there were "fixed" versions ready to be sent out by SONY to replace the defectives, i.e., if you sent SONY back your copy. I did not go that route, instead opting to go through AMAZON. Second order of TR from AMAZON arrived Saturday: same defective stock. So either SONY intends to limit their loss to just those who demand a replacement from them specifically (and let AMAZON continue taking losses in return shipping), or the SONY rep was in error or lied about the existence of corrected discs.

My judgment was that the rep was passing along exactly what he was told to say -- it followed a predictable pattern and he did not seem to be extemporizing -- but unknown if SONY actually believes that replacing a defective with a defective will make a difference in outcome with the purchaser just keeping the second. And of course I suppose SONY might have a corrected disc but not be bothering to protect AMAZON or other distributors by letting them in on it.

Anyway, think I'll return this to AMAZON, notify them in the strongest terms what they already have been told, that this is defective stock, then continue to order copies until they come up with a good one. In any event, if some orders might come up short of the free shipping threshhold, you can always just add in a copy of TR -- if it is good, so much better, if not, I guess you still get the free shipping on the rest of your order.
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post #199 of 212
2/10/13 at 1:41pm
Well Emaych, I really thought that Sony would eventually make this right. Now I think if they were going to they would have by now. I'm glad my system is set up to PCM everything so I don't have to mess around changing things because, in my opinion, it is a good movie and has some great audio. Anyway, good luck on getting new version of this, it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen after all.

Al
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post #200 of 212
2/10/13 at 1:44pm
I guess I'll wait until its $9.99. Then if its still crap, I won't be out as much money.
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post #201 of 212
2/11/13 at 11:13am
Here is a theory:

I have read numerous places that the audio problems are related to "improvements" made in the copy-protection. If so, that would imply that a "fixed" disc would have weaker copy-protection. So that could be a reason why Sony is reluctant to restock the stores with a fixed version.

So that leads me to a question: Do any of you folks rip your blu-rays to a media server, and if so, did Total Recall give you problems? It seems like it would if the copy-protection has changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie1210 View Post

I guess I'll wait until its $9.99. Then if its still crap, I won't be out as much money.

This is where I am at too. I have not bought it yet, and I am willing to pay full price for a fixed version, but if they never sell a fixed version, I'll wait for it to be in the bargain bin. I am not willing to continually send back bad discs so I will wait for someone to post they have a fixed disc in hand, and how they got it.
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post #202 of 212
2/11/13 at 12:33pm
With regard to returning, the AMAZON rep I chatted with took a pause when I inquired generally about the return -- said it had a universal defect, or some such thing -- they got back to me with something along the lines of "Audio problem?" which I confirmed. So they knew of the issue, but did not know if they were selling the replacement stock yet. Suggested I keep reordering to check up.

I might take that approach. Will watch the copy I have for now, send it back, and next time I want to watch it (or have less than a $25 purchase), will order again. I know that AMAZON will pull items that are thought to be defective. That has not happened here yet, so maybe people are anxious enough to own this one that they are not returning, but I personally do not want to be stuck with a defective, so will probably treat it as a "rotating own" disc until I can keep a good copy.

*Still regret hanging onto that first pressing of GAME OF THRONES which freezes my player -- I can get it to work with enormous hassle (unplugging player), but the second release may not have the defect, and I have been pretty much stopped cold on viewing my version because of the hassle. So never watched it and would have been way better off returning (which I did once), but then keep returning until they gave me a working one.
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post #203 of 212
2/11/13 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

Here is a theory:

I have read numerous places that the audio problems are related to "improvements" made in the copy-protection. If so, that would imply that a "fixed" disc would have weaker copy-protection. So that could be a reason why Sony is reluctant to restock the stores with a fixed version.

So that leads me to a question: Do any of you folks rip your blu-rays to a media server, and if so, did Total Recall give you problems? It seems like it would if the copy-protection has changed.
This is where I am at too. I have not bought it yet, and I am willing to pay full price for a fixed version, but if they never sell a fixed version, I'll wait for it to be in the bargain bin. I am not willing to continually send back bad discs so I will wait for someone to post they have a fixed disc in hand, and how they got it.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was copy protection related. They've caused some problems in the past with their protection schemes. I remember Sony selling CD's that would install a root kit on Windows machines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal They caused some problems with DVD play back too. http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/16/sony-copy-protection-taking-heat-again-now-dvds-wont-play/
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post #204 of 212
2/14/13 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

I know that AMAZON will pull items that are thought to be defective. That has not happened here yet, so maybe people are anxious enough to own this one that they are not returning, but I personally do not want to be stuck with a defective, so will probably treat it as a "rotating own" disc until I can keep a good copy.
Interesting...I now note that TOTAL RECALL -- the 3 disc version -- is not offered by AMAZON anymore. It does not say "currently out of stock", or offer any other explanation for it being unavailable, but my guess is that they have finally had concerns about the quality control. [However, also very interesting is the fact that they still have the 2 disc version in stock -- it also presumably features the same defect...maybe folks just have not returned as many of those..]
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post #205 of 212
2/15/13 at 9:03am
^^^Interesting again...yesterday my cart notified me that TR (3 disc) was shifted out of my cart due to AMAZON itself not selling it anymore -- third party vendors were listed as alternatives. Now AMAZON lists it again. I have never seen this type of thing happen -- if AMAZON does not have something for the moment, it only shows that it is out of stock but can be ordered still -- status does not totally alter to being an item AMAZON does not carry. Does this mean that AMAZON might now have the corrected stock?
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post #206 of 212
4/29/13 at 10:48am
Thanks for the review, Ralph! cool.gif

Finally got around to ordering this one on blu-ray and it was delivered this morning. Didn't see it at the theater, so hoping to watch it when I get home this evening.
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post #207 of 212
4/29/13 at 5:52pm
Okay, just watched it and couldn't enjoy it at all because of the countless audio dropouts that have been experienced by so many others in this thread. Will play around with this disc and issue more this weekend to see if it's fixable using Ralph's LPCM option suggestion, and if that doesn't work will return this disk to Amazon as defective!

mad.gif
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post #208 of 212
4/30/13 at 10:40am
Has anyone tried Bitstream on the latest PS3 Firmware (v4.41 released 4/25/2013)?

I think it is safe to say Sony isn't going to fix the disc since it has been out 4 months, and the bad version is still the one they are selling. frown.gif

But if they fix the PS3 firmware to deal with the current one, I am willing to purchase it.
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post #209 of 212
4/30/13 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozar View Post

Okay, just watched it and couldn't enjoy it at all because of the countless audio dropouts that have been experienced by so many others in this thread. Will play around with this disc and issue more this weekend to see if it's fixable using Ralph's LPCM option suggestion, and if that doesn't work will return this disk to Amazon as defective!

mad.gif

Greetings,

That should resolve it oz but report back either way..

Regards,
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post #210 of 212
5/1/13 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post


That should resolve it oz but report back either way..

Thanks, Ralph... will do! I read about these issues soon after the disc was initially released but to be honest, I completely forgot about it, and then finally ordered it. My memory was refreshed immediately after the dropouts started occurring, which was right away and then throughout the remainder of the movie in my case.

I've made some changes to my system and plan to watch Total Recall again later tonight and will report back. From all that I've gathered after reading about the issue here and on other sites, there no longer is any plan by Sony to re-author and replace the defective discs, but instead users are expected to compensate by reconfiguring their systems. Not a very good solution as noted by many others, but better than no solution at all, I suppose.


Edit: Okay, just watched it with the audio config change and no audio dropouts at all this time. Hey, this movie turned out to be so much better with sound! Thanks again, Ralph.
Edited by ozar - 5/1/13 at 8:25pm
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