What Equipment Do I Need?!

Do you have a budget? And are you up for DIY?

No. If you go the more expensive Control4/Crestron/et al route, they all typically have proprietary systems that can accomplish this. My suggestion is go DIY with iRule to control everything, and then use Sonos Connect Amps for each of your zone. For each Amp, you create one zone with has independent volume control and can have an independent music source. Each amp can easily power 2 sets of speakers. This nicely integrates into the iRule interface.


Yep.


Look into an HDMI matrix. A decent 4x4 will cost about $1500 while 8x8 are a bit more. A matrix will allow you to take any source (e.g. blu ray, Genie, etc.) and send it to any (or all, or a few) TV. So, for example, if you don't anticipate more than 2 TVs ever needing to watch DirecTV at the same time, you could get the Genie and the mini and hook them up to the matrix, thus giving all the rooms the ability to use those sources. For all of this, I'm assuming you'll have a central AV closet. And if you don't, you should. There won't be a single DVD player or DirecTV box or anything next to any of my TVs. They'll all be cleanly hanged on my walls.

Don't go crazy on wall plates. In fact, don't get any unless you have a specific need for them. Wire every location you might want audio or video, but only cut holes in the walls for those that will be immediately used. And wall plates create one more stop in the line where things can go wrong. For example, if you're going to send HDMI over Cat cable, you're not going to want to send HDMI to a converter to a wallplate to another converter to the source.

For control, the Cat cable will be sufficient. But again, don't cut the holes in the walls yet. Most of these solutions offer wireless independent volume control all from the comfort of your ipad/iphone/android device. I'm setting up a whole home audio video solution in my condo and it will all be controlled via my phones / tablets with no on the wall interfaces. I'm actually looking at picking up a couple Kindle Fire HDs and using those as dedicate controllers.


I like Denon. Go to Amazon and Newegg, do a search, read reviews. If you only need 7.1, only buy a 7.1. No need to spend extra on more outputs if you won't use them.


Nuvo and Russound are good. I like Sonos. If you go with Crestron, Control4, et al, these are dealer controlled systems. That is, any change must be done by the dealer, costing you money each time you change your system. If you like DIY, look at Sonos, Nuvo, Russound.


Those are all good. I'm going to put in my own server and then throw in a WD TV Live as a source on my matrix.


Many of those don't actually have a video matrix, but they can control a video matrix (as can iRule, my current favorite). Look at Octava, Atlona, Gefen, Snap AV. I'm throwing in an Octava 4x4 in my setup. And again, my whole setup will be controlled via iRule.



If you want to get a feeling for cost, take a look at this post, specifically post #7. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428725/control4-setup-thoughts-suggestions#post_22661658 There's a PDF attachment that contains the quote for my Control4 setup. I did tons of research on iRule and am now going that route and have effectively cut my costs in half. Yes, it's all DIY, but I can change anything I want whenever I want. My setup was 4x4 video matrix with audio in 4 zones (to start).

Oh... didn't mention lighting et al. iRule works with all that. Check out iRule and then Insteon. iRule can control Insteon and Insteon makes tons of devices that can control your lighting, hvac, etc.

No. The amps can be placed in any location, such as an AV closet. As long as the speaker wire can get from the speakers to the amp, you'll be fine.


iRule is just software. Essentially, iRule allows you to control all of your devices via a user defined app. Those that can be controlled via IP just need an ethernet cable plugged in. For those that are RS232 or IR, you can purchase Global Cache devices (they're on the iRule website) that will convert IP signals into IR or RS232. So, if you want to control your TV via your iPhone, you purchase an IP to IR converter, fasten it to the back of your TV, plug in the IR transmitter to the device and tape/glue it to the IR port on the front of your TV, and now you can control that TV via your iPhone.

The matrix is so that my DirecTV mini genie, WD Live TV and Blu Ray player can all be plugged into the matrix as a source and used by any of my four TVs in my bedrooms or Living Room. The main DirecTV Genie will actually be a direct input to the 5.1 AVR in my living room to save space on my matrix. Same goes with any 4k device I get. I'll plug it into the 5.1 directly versus routing it over the matrix.

Now, HDMI is only good up to 35 feet. Once you're past that, you need to look at alternatives, such has HDMI over Cat. There are a few variations, but essentially you take the HDMI signal from the matrix, route it over Cat to a converter near the TV which has an HDMI output, and plug that HDMI into the TV. Some matrices have ethernet already on the matrix whereas others have HDMI (thus requiring a converter both at the matrix and at the TV). Note that the former (with ethernet on the box) are typically more expensive, but can be better. Some models require 1 Cat run while others require 2 Cat runs. Do your research on those, Google them, check reviews, and post on here before purchasing if you need help.

I have not personally used it, but it's received great reviews. Response time will be based upon the strength of your network. So, if you have a large home or a weak wifi signal in certain spots, you might want to use one of those ethernet drops to plug in another wifi transmitter at the other end of your house. Or purchase a business class wireless repeater. And hardwire as much as is possible. Very few (if any) of my devices will actually use wifi. Everything will be hardwired in (hence the need for a 16 port switch) for faster response times. But overall, I've seen great information about the responsiveness. I was ready to spend the 15k on the Control4 setup but, since I love DIY and iRule has received such great reviews, I've completely changed my tune and reworked my system. And I've saved so much money this route. And iRule has a very active support community, from both the users and the company. Post on their forum and an iRule rep/engineer/employee will respond ASAP. I'm very impressed with what I've seen so far. They remind me of Amazon (from a customer service standpoint).

No worries! I've only recently started to learn all of this... and I'm still learning!

1. Yes, that's the device. The -P indicates PoE, power over ethernet, which I want to reduce power cables.

2. 4x4. I only have four TVs (3 bed / LR) so that will be sufficient. I'm going to use the Octava (http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20Ethernet%20matrix%20switch%204x4.html). And you can always play around with the inputs, as I'll note in a minute.

3. 16 port unmanaged. I don't need the degree of control that a managed switch provides. I'm just passing 1s and 0s from one device to another, nothing too fancy. Haven't decided on the model yet, but it will be one of the more popular brands with good reviews, such as Netgear.

4. The 5.1 will be in the AV closet in my rack but not on the matrix as a source; however, it will be an output on the matrix. Then I'll take the HDMI signal from the AVR and ship it over to the LR TV.

5. Yes, Sonos. I'm going to start off with 3 Sonos Connect Amps and 1 Sonos Connect. The 3 amps will power Zone 1 (Master Bed and Bath), Zone 2 (Hallway) and Zone 3 (Kitchen). The Sonos Connect unit will create Zone 4 (Living Room) as I can plug it directly into my AVR. Side note... I'm putting together my own rack. It will be an OmniMount rack. And then Middle Atlantic makes custom rack shelves for any device you have. I'm going to purchase custom shelves for my Sonos units so they neatly integrate into my rack. Another side note. Sonos has a wiereless option which creates a mesh, and as such it benefits when you're devices are spread throughout your home. However, since I'm going to hardwire them into my switch, I'm not concerned about the wireless mesh.

6. You'll need to send the PS3 back to the AVR. Depending on the length, you could probably get away with using the Monoprice redmere HDMI cables.

7. Absolutely. And a good suggestion. If I can easily mount it to the back of my TV, I might try that out.

8. It will, at some point. My primary concern is A/V distribution. I'll add that stuff later. But I'll probably go with Insteon. http://www.insteon.net/index.html These devices can be controlled with iRule.

9. Seems like a good product. My only issue was that the inputs/outputs are on top of the unit and won't make for a clean install in my rack.

Yes, aside from the IP to IR device and possibly the mini. But both of those would be mounted to the TV behind it.


Two different things here. Control4 does not have a distributed video solution. You have to buy a third party matrix (i.e. Octava, Snap AV) which can then be controlled by your Control4 system. And the reason I'm moving away from Control4 is the cost and lack of owner customization. The dealer controls the system, not you.


All those damn ethernet cables. I need ethernet cables for: AVR, 4 Sonos units, IP to RS232 device, 4 IP to IR devices, NAS, WD Live, and I'm probably missing a few. So the cable line goes to my modem, which then goes to my router which then goes to my switch. I need that switch for all those devices since I'm hardwiring 99% of my setup.


The 4x4 matrix can't power a 5.1 setup. That is, if the 5.1 was a source, I'd have to send it to another 5.1 so I could get my speakers to work. You make it an output so that your Blu ray sends the signal to the AVR which then sends it to your TV and your speakers. The 5.1 is dedicated to the Living Room.


Yes and yes. Hardwired into the switch and the speaker runs go back to my AV closet (and plugged into the Sonos amps).


Yep.


Resale value. You and I (and everyone else on these forums) love this kind of thing. But to the average home buyer, they're going to want an RG6 in each of the bedrooms. They might not want to invest in this sort of setup and will be perfectly content putting a cable box and DVD player in each room (and having 20 damn remotes versus our pretty tablet remotes).

Just a tip from an experience Irule user: The global cache itach devices can be mounted in your AV closet if you wish. The 3.5mm 6ft IR buds can be snipped and extended via a twisted pair of a cat5/6 cable. I have an itach that controls 3 TVs, 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the living room and 1 in the family room. I snipped it close the jack, leaving 5+ ft on the bud side. Inside the jacket you'll find some bare wire and a red wire. I used the orage/white and orange twisted pair and some electrical tape (soldering would be a bit more secure but I didn't feel like buying a tiny iron just for this purpose). Did the same at the bud end of the emitter and they all work like a charm. My longest run is about 75ft.

I also went the cheapest route for my video distribution and bought he monoprice 4x4 matrix over cat 5/6. While it does work I am thinking that I will upgrade when funds allow or prices come down significantly. I have trouble with the PS3 on 2 TVs, flashing screen or no signal at all, a power cycle of the matrix fixes things. Not that big of a deal, but if other people are using other sources then turning off the whole system can cause a headache. It doesn't happen every time so I haven't been able to figure out a root cause and try to eliminate it. EDID is also retained on it which causes an issue with my Dune player and PS3. The PS3 never changes its internal EDID settings which works for me, gaming in the theater in 7.1 is great. But when playing a game in another room that only has the stereo speakers of the TV we don't get all the sound, watching a bluray from the PS3 on the other TVs is impossible as no center channel comes through. The opposite is true with the Dune. It always goes to lowest common denominator so downmixes everything to stereo, so I don't use it for movies in the theater unless I pull it from the matrix and plug it directly the my AVR.

I've heard these things are non-issues with the higher end matrices.

Anyway, you both seem like you have great systems going. I have been putting things together piece by piece and running wires in an older house where needed is not an easy task. Slowly but surely as we remodel this place I'll have a full system.

Good luck to you Seldom. I've got to give credit where credit is due, and that's the AV companies that provided me with a few proposals. I already had an idea what I wanted, but their Control4 proposals really got into the nitty gritty. And in turn, further aided my research and I was able to find iRule. I really think this is the best (and one of the cheapest) options for my setup. Sure, I won't have the on screen interface that Control4 offers, but who really needs that when you have an interface on your phone and tablet? I think I might pick up a few of the Kindle Fire HDs for dedicated remotes. They're cheap and just about the right size. I could even wall mount them if I ever wanted an in-wall display

The Switch in your system is just a way to have enough ethernet jacks for all of the harware you have that needs a networ/internet connection. Most routers have 4 ports and 1 that connects to your modem so you could only connect 4 pieces of equipment. A switch plugs in to 1 of those 4 ports and gives you the ability to connect a much larger selection of hardware, multiple computers, itach products, sonos, receivers, dtv boxes, all of these have ethernet ports and need to be on your network/internet to function.


The HDMI matrix is a bridge between video sources and TVs. My 4x4 matrix has 4 video source inputs: DTV, Dune player, PS3 and HTPC. It has 4 outputs: Family Room TV, Living Room TV, Kitchen TV and Theater AVR. I can watch any of the 4 sources on any of the TVs, 1 source can be watched at the same time on multiple TVs as well.

My AVR is an output from the matrix so that all the sources of the matrix are available in my theater. I also have a dedicated DTV box that is not part of the matrix that is plugged directly via hdmi in to the receiver.

I hope that clears it up, the switch and the matix have really nothing to do with each other, and most of my devices are plugged in to both, ethernet to the switch for network/internet access and hdmi for audio/video connectivity.

iRule is just a remote control software app. You need IP-to-IR only at locations where there will be IR devices to control. If you're using a Sonos unit(s) for audio, you'll control it with the Sonos app (or the iRule Sonos module), with no need for local IR control.

On that entire topic, I use iRule for my theater controls, but I wouldn't recommend it (or any of the iOS / Android solutions) for "normal" TV viewing and everyday A/V control. The lack of hard buttons (as compared to a remote) make it difficult to use without looking at the device, and they're generally a pain to use for channel surfing / DVR list navigation / etc.

Seldom answered this, but think of those cat5e cables like PVC plumbing pipe. They are generic, useful conduits - PVC pipe carries both fresh water and sewage in your house. Connecting one of those "systems" to the other would not be good... You'll have cat5e cabling, terminated with RJ45 jacks (which we commonly call "Ethernet cables") - some of them are Ethernet, others are carrying a proprietary HDMI-over-cat5 signal. They are completely different, just use the same type of pipe.

Putting AppleTV and K-scape as "one or the other" is, um, funny. K-scape systems are awesome, but I suspect if you're lumping them in the same category, that you haven't seen the price...

Jeff

JustAddPower is an exception - it is a real-time video encoder and its output is TCP/IP over 1Gb Ethernet... So yes, it's a real Ethernet device. The rest of the HDMI-over-cat5 products are just repurposing the eight conductors in a cat5e cable for A/V signals.

Jeff

Sharing DirecTV boxes, $99 AppleTV or Roku boxes is not going to be economically viable with an HDMI matrix, unless you can really cut down the total number of boxes (which also limits your source selection) to remove monthly fees. Even then it can be several years just to break even.

A ZeeVee solution may be something to look into, but none of these is going to be anything resembling "cheap" (and I assume you mean $4.5K, not $45K). Monoprice is supposed to come out with an HDBaseT matrix - that would be the one to watch for.

Jeff

The HDMI matrix route may not be cost effective for sharing a $99 box, but it adds functionality you wouldn't otherwise have, like being able to move from room to room...

Correct, and that functionality is part of the non-economic decision. If that's what the OP wants out of the setup, a matrix is the way to go. But a $99 box for each display also gives more source flexibility - it all depends on what the goals of the setup are...

Jeff

Well what you've mostly listed is a bunch of equipment, not a set of goals... But getting a full design for a house with A/V distribution, HVAC, security and lighting control from the forum is a tall order...

Jeff

Correct. Once you get past a 4x4 HDMI matrix, which is a couple hundred bucks, you're out of the realm of economics driving the decision, and you're looking for a distribution system that has the capability to move the signal from one room to another, or mirror stuff on an as-needed basis, not just to save money on the number of components.