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Polk Monitor 70s (Are they blown?)

post #1 of 32
12/17/12 at 8:21pm
Thread Starter 
I normally make posts too long and wordy so I'll keep this short.

I have Polk Monitor 70s and a HT-RC360 receiver.
I had a ton of people over as I normally do. I woke up the next day and I have a muddy sound. Things don't sound as crisp. The most distinct thing I could notice though was that in Halo 4, when I hop into the mongoose and honk the horn I can hear absolutely nothing. This leads me to believe my tweeters are blown but I honestly don't know.

What steps should I take? I honestly think everything should be under warranty but I submitted no paperwork. I ordered everything off newegg and amazon though,

Thanks in advance for the help!
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post #2 of 32
12/17/12 at 8:24pm
Check your wiring. The bridges between the upper and lower post could also not be making good contact. All you need is the invoice they sent you via e-mail for warranty.
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post #3 of 32
12/17/12 at 9:04pm
Thread Starter 
Alright I'll start with this thanks. Ya, I just reconfirmed that above a certain pitch they really don't seem to play noise if at all in all my games.

Just to be sure though since I'm still a noob to all this, what exactly do you mean by the bridge between the upper and lower post? And is it really possible that both got dislodged? I dunno maybe it is, I really have little to no recollection of the night. I do know for sure though that the volume never went past 3/4ths (still extremely loud though). My maximum volume on my receiver is set to that because I know when I'm drunk I'll crank the system.
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post #4 of 32
12/17/12 at 9:12pm
There is a metal bridge that connects the upper speaker binding posts. If you connect your speaker wire to the bottom post the metal bridge will enable the audio signal to reach the upper post for the tweeter. Hope that's clear.
Try some music instead. IF you play too loud and the speakers clip you can toast your speakers. The tweeters are usually the ones to go.
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post #5 of 32
12/17/12 at 9:21pm
Thread Starter 
It was playing very loud but again at 3/4ths volume on speakers rated for much more than what I thought an HT-RC360 could give, I mean the Monitor 70s are rated for 200W RMS and the HTC-RC360 gives out 110 a channel if I'm not mistaken (or 100) with 2 channels driven.

I connect my speakers to the receiver using the upper speaker binding posts. I'm supposed to do that right? I could have sworn thats what the manual said. There is nothing loose though at all everythign is just as tight as when I originally put it together.
As for the music, I'll try something like mariah carey and get back to you on how the music sounds.
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post #6 of 32
12/17/12 at 9:25pm
Connecting to the upper posts is fine. Upper or lower it doesn't matter. If your speakers are clipping they are telling you to back off. Forget the ratings and back off if they are clipping which is what it sounds like to me going by your description.
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post #7 of 32
12/17/12 at 9:33pm
Thread Starter 
What do you mean by clipping?
It's really confusing because I've been playing them at this volume all semester and it's only now that I have had problems.

What steps do I need to take to fix this? My friend has the exact same receiver and his logic board on his receiver was broken when he had problems. However, I suspect he has blown tweeters as well as his sound still sounds muddy.

How can I isolate whether the problem is the receiver or the speakers, and what do I do from there?

Edit:
I been reading around and have heard the Monitor 70s have weak tweeter (then again you have a high chance at finding something if you are looking for it). If these speakers are prone to blowing tweeters when played at high frequencies I could use these as my surrounds and buy another front set of speakers to avoid having this happen more often in the future.
Edited by tential - 12/17/12 at 9:51pm
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post #8 of 32
12/17/12 at 10:51pm
It sure sounds like your tweeters are dead.

Do me a favor, run audyssey, and if the chirps sound like crap that is a dead give away your tweets are fried. Assuming you are still covered by polks 5 year warranty, print your invoice and ship it and your tweets to polks repair center in Vista CA (exact address is on the polk site), you dont even need to call them. Be sure to include your return address and name though. Should take around a week turn around time.

Regarding the power your receiver is rated for and what the 70's can take, you must learn that too little power is way worse and can damage speakers very easily then too much power. Your receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel 2 channels driven when running 8 ohm speakers. This is generally more then adequate power for most average listening volumes in average to small rooms, however sometimes certain peaks will require more then what your receiver is able to put out and it will clip the signal and damage your tweeters....sometimes you wont even hear this is occurring. Do this enough times and you end up with a dead tweeter. Running more then 2 channels drastically reduces the available power output of most multi-channel avr's. The closer to reference level you listen and the further away your listening position is from your speakers will also requires more power to be available.

FWIW, I dont necessarily think that the monitor series tweeter is overly weak, however because of the inexpensive nature of acquiring the 70's, there are a number of people pushing them with inadequately powered entry level receivers attempting to achieve reference level volume at too great a distance/too large of a room. Step up to a decent mid level or better avr from any of the usual manufacturers and you will likely never have a problem with clipped peaks damaging your tweeters, assuming of course your room isnt the size of a gymnasium biggrin.gif. I recommend mid level avr not because they are rated at higher watt per channel ratings (most are apprx 120-140 watts per channel), but because they often have better power supplies and can handle peaks better then entry level avrs with weaker power supplies.


On a lighter note....I once killed my tweets on my 70's by pushing my denon 1611 to +8 eek.gif on the dB volume scale with my listening position at apprx 8 ft from the speakers....lets just say too many adult beverages were involved:p.....interestingly I dont recall hearing painful amounts of distortion or clipping, but the next day when I turned my system on I knew something was wrong.
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post #9 of 32
12/18/12 at 12:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

It sure sounds like your tweeters are dead.
Do me a favor, run audyssey, and if the chirps sound like crap that is a dead give away your tweets are fried. Assuming you are still covered by polks 5 year warranty, print your invoice and ship it and your tweets to polks repair center in Vista CA (exact address is on the polk site), you dont even need to call them. Be sure to include your return address and name though. Should take around a week turn around time.
Regarding the power your receiver is rated for and what the 70's can take, you must learn that too little power is way worse and can damage speakers very easily then too much power. Your receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel 2 channels driven when running 8 ohm speakers. This is generally more then adequate power for most average listening volumes in average to small rooms, however sometimes certain peaks will require more then what your receiver is able to put out and it will clip the signal and damage your tweeters....sometimes you wont even hear this is occurring. Do this enough times and you end up with a dead tweeter. Running more then 2 channels drastically reduces the available power output of most multi-channel avr's. The closer to reference level you listen and the further away your listening position is from your speakers will also requires more power to be available.
FWIW, I dont necessarily think that the monitor series tweeter is overly weak, however because of the inexpensive nature of acquiring the 70's, there are a number of people pushing them with inadequately powered entry level receivers attempting to achieve reference level volume at too great a distance/too large of a room. Step up to a decent mid level or better avr from any of the usual manufacturers and you will likely never have a problem with clipped peaks damaging your tweeters, assuming of course your room isnt the size of a gymnasium biggrin.gif. I recommend mid level avr not because they are rated at higher watt per channel ratings (most are apprx 120-140 watts per channel), but because they often have better power supplies and can handle peaks better then entry level avrs with weaker power supplies.
On a lighter note....I once killed my tweets on my 70's by pushing my denon 1611 to +8 eek.gif on the dB volume scale with my listening position at apprx 8 ft from the speakers....lets just say too many adult beverages were involved:p.....interestingly I dont recall hearing painful amounts of distortion or clipping, but the next day when I turned my system on I knew something was wrong.

The situation you have described is the exact situation that we've been doing for the past 3 months. I live in a 12 by 12 room (a little bigger I think not sure on which side), and due to living in a fraternity house and having the loudest sound system, my room frequently becomes the place people come to to party. I don't even remember them popping at night, I just woke up the next morning and my friend noticed it sounded really off.

On the note of a new receiver, about how much would you think I would need to spend? Would it be more efficient to do a receiver/amp combo (or preout or whatever it's called I'm that much of a noob I know). Now that you mention the fact that doing multi channel makes it more likely I will cliip my speakers, I will not be running the bose speakers as surrounds (Which most likely also have dead tweeters). That's the only difference that has changed literally as all semester I didn't have the bose ones and I've had them for about 4 weeks, but haven't really pushed everything to what I normally listen at during a party in my room til recently.

-So ya, I'm going to run the audyssey to see ensure the tweets are fried although I'm 99% sure after playing some music and having sounds in halo that are highpitched completely disappear.
-I guess I need a recommendation on a better receiver or a preout/amp combo (I think this would be a more expensive right?). Currently after reading this http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread#post_20422009, I see that for Denon, I'd need to spend quite a bit to get to what that post says is midrange. I'm assuming the HT-RC360 is entry? but what about the 809? Either way I need a new receiver EVENTUALLY, I guess.
-As for the polk RMA process, if I call them will they just ask me to remove the tweeters and send them back?
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post #10 of 32
12/18/12 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

-I guess I need a recommendation on a better receiver or a preout/amp combo (I think this would be a more expensive right?). Currently after reading this http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread#post_20422009, I see that for Denon, I'd need to spend quite a bit to get to what that post says is midrange. I'm assuming the HT-RC360 is entry? but what about the 809? Either way I need a new receiver EVENTUALLY, I guess.
-As for the polk RMA process, if I call them will they just ask me to remove the tweeters and send them back?

If you don't mind going with a factory refurbished receiver, you can check out Accessories4less. You can get a Denon AVR-2312ci for $500 with a one-year warranty. Denon rates their receivers all channels driven on their Custom Installer ( CI ) line, so this one will give you a solid 80 watts per channel. Your Onkyo was probably only giving you 45 watts per channel. They have discounted Onkyo receivers there if you want to stick with the same brand. I would shoot for at least a 709 or 809. These would have roughly the same power output ( NR709 ) or higher ( NR809 ) than the Denon 2312ci.

I have never RMAed Polk stuff, but that is typically what you would do -- take the drivers out and ship them back with proof-of-purchase. You'll need to start the RMA process though. Removing the drivers is just a few screws up front and two spade terminals once you get the driver out. Very simple.
Edited by jevans64 - 12/18/12 at 1:18pm
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post #11 of 32
12/18/12 at 2:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

If you don't mind going with a factory refurbished receiver, you can check out Accessories4less. You can get a Denon AVR-2312ci for $500 with a one-year warranty. Denon rates their receivers all channels driven on their Custom Installer ( CI ) line, so this one will give you a solid 80 watts per channel. Your Onkyo was probably only giving you 45 watts per channel. They have discounted Onkyo receivers there if you want to stick with the same brand. I would shoot for at least a 709 or 809. These would have roughly the same power output ( NR709 ) or higher ( NR809 ) than the Denon 2312ci.
I have never RMAed Polk stuff, but that is typically what you would do -- take the drivers out and ship them back with proof-of-purchase. You'll need to start the RMA process though. Removing the drivers is just a few screws up front and two spade terminals once you get the driver out. Very simple.

Thanks so much for the help.

I have zero brand loyalty currently. I just want something that I can be really happy with and is a good value. The only thing I have to say though is I'd prefer at least a 2 year warranty. That's the only thing that made me even think about Emotiva was their 5 year warranty but again I have no brand loyalty.

I really want to make sure I get the right receiver this time around as I thought the HT-RC360 would be good for my high level music listening due to everywhere I read saying the Monitor 70s are efficient speakers. I guess people meant it's decent for normal listening levels and not for those of us throwing a party where listening levels are uncomfortable without being intoxicated lol.

The Denon 2312ci, this is what that thread I quoted earlier had to say about it
"Official batpig advice: Only step up to the 2312 from the 2112 if you will actually use the features listed below!! Sound quality should be the same, the "on paper" power difference is negligible in real-world use, and video processing in the receiver is a largely overrated feature. If you have a "high end" setup and are looking to step things up, skip the 2312 and go all the way to the 3312."
So it seems the 2112 would be good for me right? Also why do you say 80 wats when that thread says 105?

As for the Onkyo option, the TX-NR809 is cheaper than the 709 so that would probably be the one I'd be looking at. The good thing about both of these is they allow for me to add an amp as I had originally planned. I think I go the HT-RC360 by accident of something because I definitely had planned to get an amp and needed a receiver with preouts.

So besides the Denon choice and the Onkyo choice, did I miss any obvious good choices? Again I have no brand loyalty and am willing to look into the preout/amp set up if there is a way to use the amp currently with my set up until I have a preout (even if that means I have to sacrifice all audio processing).
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post #12 of 32
12/18/12 at 3:16pm
You could try removing the jumper straps and just hooking up the wires to the top terminals . You would be better able to hear if the tweeters are working because that is all that would be playing. Hope this helps. Maybe this has already been suggested..
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post #13 of 32
12/18/12 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

If you don't mind going with a factory refurbished receiver, you can check out Accessories4less. You can get a Denon AVR-2312ci for $500 with a one-year warranty. Denon rates their receivers all channels driven on their Custom Installer ( CI ) line, so this one will give you a solid 80 watts per channel. Your Onkyo was probably only giving you 45 watts per channel. They have discounted Onkyo receivers there if you want to stick with the same brand. I would shoot for at least a 709 or 809. These would have roughly the same power output ( NR709 ) or higher ( NR809 ) than the Denon 2312ci.
I have never RMAed Polk stuff, but that is typically what you would do -- take the drivers out and ship them back with proof-of-purchase. You'll need to start the RMA process though. Removing the drivers is just a few screws up front and two spade terminals once you get the driver out. Very simple.

Thanks so much for the help.

I have zero brand loyalty currently. I just want something that I can be really happy with and is a good value. The only thing I have to say though is I'd prefer at least a 2 year warranty. That's the only thing that made me even think about Emotiva was their 5 year warranty but again I have no brand loyalty.

I really want to make sure I get the right receiver this time around as I thought the HT-RC360 would be good for my high level music listening due to everywhere I read saying the Monitor 70s are efficient speakers. I guess people meant it's decent for normal listening levels and not for those of us throwing a party where listening levels are uncomfortable without being intoxicated lol.

The Denon 2312ci, this is what that thread I quoted earlier had to say about it
"Official batpig advice: Only step up to the 2312 from the 2112 if you will actually use the features listed below!! Sound quality should be the same, the "on paper" power difference is negligible in real-world use, and video processing in the receiver is a largely overrated feature. If you have a "high end" setup and are looking to step things up, skip the 2312 and go all the way to the 3312."
So it seems the 2112 would be good for me right? Also why do you say 80 wats when that thread says 105?

As for the Onkyo option, the TX-NR809 is cheaper than the 709 so that would probably be the one I'd be looking at. The good thing about both of these is they allow for me to add an amp as I had originally planned. I think I go the HT-RC360 by accident of something because I definitely had planned to get an amp and needed a receiver with preouts.

So besides the Denon choice and the Onkyo choice, did I miss any obvious good choices? Again I have no brand loyalty and am willing to look into the preout/amp set up if there is a way to use the amp currently with my set up until I have a preout (even if that means I have to sacrifice all audio processing).

I would go for the 709 or 809 over the denons just for the preout feature in case you want to add an amp later. This is not to say those denons are bad, they just dont have the full pre out feature that I'd be interested in. You couldn't really go wrong with any of them, although, with the price of the 809 on amazon lately I doubt you'd find anything better then it for cheaper.



As far as other avrs to look at, yamaha and pioneer have some really good mid level units, but neither uses room correction software that eq's the sub frequencies, which is important to me.
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post #14 of 32
12/18/12 at 11:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Thanks so much for the help.
I have zero brand loyalty currently. I just want something that I can be really happy with and is a good value. The only thing I have to say though is I'd prefer at least a 2 year warranty. That's the only thing that made me even think about Emotiva was their 5 year warranty but again I have no brand loyalty.
I really want to make sure I get the right receiver this time around as I thought the HT-RC360 would be good for my high level music listening due to everywhere I read saying the Monitor 70s are efficient speakers. I guess people meant it's decent for normal listening levels and not for those of us throwing a party where listening levels are uncomfortable without being intoxicated lol.
The Denon 2312ci, this is what that thread I quoted earlier had to say about it
"Official batpig advice: Only step up to the 2312 from the 2112 if you will actually use the features listed below!! Sound quality should be the same, the "on paper" power difference is negligible in real-world use, and video processing in the receiver is a largely overrated feature. If you have a "high end" setup and are looking to step things up, skip the 2312 and go all the way to the 3312."
So it seems the 2112 would be good for me right? Also why do you say 80 wats when that thread says 105?
As for the Onkyo option, the TX-NR809 is cheaper than the 709 so that would probably be the one I'd be looking at. The good thing about both of these is they allow for me to add an amp as I had originally planned. I think I go the HT-RC360 by accident of something because I definitely had planned to get an amp and needed a receiver with preouts.
So besides the Denon choice and the Onkyo choice, did I miss any obvious good choices? Again I have no brand loyalty and am willing to look into the preout/amp set up if there is a way to use the amp currently with my set up until I have a preout (even if that means I have to sacrifice all audio processing).

67jason has a good point about the pre-outs and the Onkyo TX-NR809 has the advantage in that department. That would leave you open to adding something like Outlaw M2200 monoblock amps into the mix later on. Only the top two Denon receivers will have pre-outs. I think you are still limited to 7.2 processing even though there are posts for Wide and Height.

I don't think Emotiva makes any receivers. I know they are still cutting their teeth as far as pre-amps go. The XMC-1 was impressive but I'm already beyond the 7.2 processing it has with my upgraded Denon AVR-5308ci. I'm about an hour away from Emotiva, so I attend their EmoFest every year. Their speakers are very good especially with the Christmas sale going on now. Their amps are an extremely good value. Their "A" series amps are a slight bit noisy because of the 32 dB gain but their "R" series amps fix that with the lower 29dB gain. I saved my pennies so I could get the XPR-5 and that beast is worth every penny.

I said 80 watts / channel for the Denon 2112ci/2312ci because I believe they have the same transformer and I saw the HT Labs test last year that tested all 7 channels driven at 79.5 watts at 8 Ohms. I was shopping for a new Denon receiver but nothing ever came out that competed with my 5308ci. The closest thing out now is the 4520ci but that really doesn't interest me since I don't have the room for Wide speakers. I think HT Labs tested the Onkyo TX-NR609 at 77 watts x 7, so it stands to reason that the TX-NR809 would do a bit more. 2010 is when Denon started skimping on the transformers except for their flagship. Onkyo put good transformers ( possibly the SAME one in the 609/709/809 ) in their top 6 receivers.
Edited by jevans64 - 12/18/12 at 11:42pm
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post #15 of 32
12/19/12 at 3:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Thanks so much for the help.
I have zero brand loyalty currently. I just want something that I can be really happy with and is a good value. The only thing I have to say though is I'd prefer at least a 2 year warranty. That's the only thing that made me even think about Emotiva was their 5 year warranty but again I have no brand loyalty.
I really want to make sure I get the right receiver this time around as I thought the HT-RC360 would be good for my high level music listening due to everywhere I read saying the Monitor 70s are efficient speakers. I guess people meant it's decent for normal listening levels and not for those of us throwing a party where listening levels are uncomfortable without being intoxicated lol.
The Denon 2312ci, this is what that thread I quoted earlier had to say about it
"Official batpig advice: Only step up to the 2312 from the 2112 if you will actually use the features listed below!! Sound quality should be the same, the "on paper" power difference is negligible in real-world use, and video processing in the receiver is a largely overrated feature. If you have a "high end" setup and are looking to step things up, skip the 2312 and go all the way to the 3312."
So it seems the 2112 would be good for me right? Also why do you say 80 wats when that thread says 105?
As for the Onkyo option, the TX-NR809 is cheaper than the 709 so that would probably be the one I'd be looking at. The good thing about both of these is they allow for me to add an amp as I had originally planned. I think I go the HT-RC360 by accident of something because I definitely had planned to get an amp and needed a receiver with preouts.
So besides the Denon choice and the Onkyo choice, did I miss any obvious good choices? Again I have no brand loyalty and am willing to look into the preout/amp set up if there is a way to use the amp currently with my set up until I have a preout (even if that means I have to sacrifice all audio processing).

67jason has a good point about the pre-outs and the Onkyo TX-NR809 has the advantage in that department. That would leave you open to adding something like Outlaw M2200 monoblock amps into the mix later on. Only the top two Denon receivers will have pre-outs. I think you are still limited to 7.2 processing even though there are posts for Wide and Height.

I don't think Emotiva makes any receivers. I know they are still cutting their teeth as far as pre-amps go. The XMC-1 was impressive but I'm already beyond the 7.2 processing it has with my upgraded Denon AVR-5308ci. I'm about an hour away from Emotiva, so I attend their EmoFest every year. Their speakers are very good especially with the Christmas sale going on now. Their amps are an extremely good value. Their "A" series amps are a slight bit noisy because of the 32 dB gain but their "R" series amps fix that with the lower 29dB gain. I saved my pennies so I could get the XPR-5 and that beast is worth every penny.

I said 80 watts / channel for the Denon 2112ci/2312ci because I believe they have the same transformer and I saw the HT Labs test last year that tested all 7 channels driven at 79.5 watts at 8 Ohms. I was shopping for a new Denon receiver but nothing ever came out that competed with my 5308ci. The closest thing out now is the 4520ci but that really doesn't interest me since I don't have the room for Wide speakers. I think HT Labs tested the Onkyo TX-NR609 at 77 watts x 7, so it stands to reason that the TX-NR809 would do a bit more. 2010 is when Denon started skimping on the transformers except for their flagship. Onkyo put good transformers ( possibly the SAME one in the 609/709/809 ) in their top 6 receivers.

HT Labs tested the Integra 50.2 which is basically the same as the 809 just with a different face, the results were pretty decent.

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 110.8 watts
1% distortion at 134.1 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 107.5 watts
1% distortion at 127.7 watts

http://www.hometheater.com/content/integra-dtr-502-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
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post #16 of 32
12/19/12 at 4:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommytutor View Post

You could try removing the jumper straps and just hooking up the wires to the top terminals . You would be better able to hear if the tweeters are working because that is all that would be playing. Hope this helps. Maybe this has already been suggested..

Explain this to me please? You mean remove the gold plate and hook it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

I would go for the 709 or 809 over the denons just for the preout feature in case you want to add an amp later. This is not to say those denons are bad, they just dont have the full pre out feature that I'd be interested in. You couldn't really go wrong with any of them, although, with the price of the 809 on amazon lately I doubt you'd find anything better then it for cheaper.
As far as other avrs to look at, yamaha and pioneer have some really good mid level units, but neither uses room correction software that eq's the sub frequencies, which is important to me.
Yes, the 809 is 450 dollars right now and has dropped in price over 2 weeks to get there from around 600 dollars I think. The preouts are the only thing I wanted, I dunno how I even got hte HT-RC360 because I wanted preouts and to dd an Emotiva amp from the start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

67jason has a good point about the pre-outs and the Onkyo TX-NR809 has the advantage in that department. That would leave you open to adding something like Outlaw M2200 monoblock amps into the mix later on. Only the top two Denon receivers will have pre-outs. I think you are still limited to 7.2 processing even though there are posts for Wide and Height.
I don't think Emotiva makes any receivers. I know they are still cutting their teeth as far as pre-amps go. The XMC-1 was impressive but I'm already beyond the 7.2 processing it has with my upgraded Denon AVR-5308ci. I'm about an hour away from Emotiva, so I attend their EmoFest every year. Their speakers are very good especially with the Christmas sale going on now. Their amps are an extremely good value. Their "A" series amps are a slight bit noisy because of the 32 dB gain but their "R" series amps fix that with the lower 29dB gain. I saved my pennies so I could get the XPR-5 and that beast is worth every penny.
I said 80 watts / channel for the Denon 2112ci/2312ci because I believe they have the same transformer and I saw the HT Labs test last year that tested all 7 channels driven at 79.5 watts at 8 Ohms. I was shopping for a new Denon receiver but nothing ever came out that competed with my 5308ci. The closest thing out now is the 4520ci but that really doesn't interest me since I don't have the room for Wide speakers. I think HT Labs tested the Onkyo TX-NR609 at 77 watts x 7, so it stands to reason that the TX-NR809 would do a bit more. 2010 is when Denon started skimping on the transformers except for their flagship. Onkyo put good transformers ( possibly the SAME one in the 609/709/809 ) in their top 6 receivers.
They don't make receivers but they make the make pre amps. I could get a preamp/amplifier combo. I think getting the 809 though that can drive speakers and still use preouts is a better value though. I think the transformer in the 809 is different than 609/709. The 609 is 24.7 lbs, the 709 is 26 lbs and the 809 is 40 lbs. Much larger than the 609/709. Wish there were more tests though so I could know.
As for speakers, I already have the Monitor 70s. If I get more speakers, it would be round out the ones I have. I could really see myself getting the current Emotiva speakers, especially since very few people have heard them. What's your opinion on their speakers though based on EmoFest? Although I assume their setups there are perfect and I'd get no where near that performance in my own room lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

HT Labs tested the Integra 50.2 which is basically the same as the 809 just with a different face, the results were pretty decent.
Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 110.8 watts
1% distortion at 134.1 watts
Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 107.5 watts
1% distortion at 127.7 watts
http://www.hometheater.com/content/integra-dtr-502-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Oh well reading that was much nicer. It seems the transformer in the 809 and that is the same. I'm assuming that's a top of the line receiver so the 809 would be a significant upgrade over the 709/609/HT-RC360 right? That's what it looks like . I've been hearing conflicting things about this. Some have told me in the 809 thread that it wasn't significant upgrade in power and others said it was so I'm curious to know.
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post #17 of 32
2/2/13 at 6:10pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, so I'm a ****** and didn't pull the trigger on the 809. Seriously, the dumbest decision I ever made. My Monitor 70 left tweeter is blown again or so I think. Either that, or the one that was shipped to me I didn't set it up correctly. If I drive my home theater set up at 3/4 volume (which is the max I can turn it up even if I'm drunk), is it normal for my speakers to be blowing like this? Should I just start looking for a new better receiver like the 809 again?

I'm seriously debating a receiver/amplifier combo at this point if this will fix this problem. Not just for the short term (I'll only be playing the speakers this loud for another 3 months I'm guessing), but for the long term when I get better speakers and am watching more movies with my setup and less music/parties.
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post #18 of 32
2/2/13 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Ok, so I'm a ****** and didn't pull the trigger on the 809. Seriously, the dumbest decision I ever made. My Monitor 70 left tweeter is blown again or so I think. Either that, or the one that was shipped to me I didn't set it up correctly. If I drive my home theater set up at 3/4 volume (which is the max I can turn it up even if I'm drunk), is it normal for my speakers to be blowing like this? Should I just start looking for a new better receiver like the 809 again?

I'm seriously debating a receiver/amplifier combo at this point if this will fix this problem. Not just for the short term (I'll only be playing the speakers this loud for another 3 months I'm guessing), but for the long term when I get better speakers and am watching more movies with my setup and less music/parties.

Lol, time to lay off the sauce my friend at least until you get your system drunk proof :-)

Like others here have mentioned and I'm sure you're well aware of my now, lack of power kills, not over power. The 70's are actually pretty tough. I fed mine with an XPA-2 (300wpc) and they performed incredibly.

Get yourself an Onk with pre-outs and your favorite amp and THEN let'er rip.
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post #19 of 32
2/2/13 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Ok, so I'm a ****** and didn't pull the trigger on the 809. Seriously, the dumbest decision I ever made. My Monitor 70 left tweeter is blown again or so I think. Either that, or the one that was shipped to me I didn't set it up correctly. If I drive my home theater set up at 3/4 volume (which is the max I can turn it up even if I'm drunk), is it normal for my speakers to be blowing like this? Should I just start looking for a new better receiver like the 809 again?

I'm seriously debating a receiver/amplifier combo at this point if this will fix this problem. Not just for the short term (I'll only be playing the speakers this loud for another 3 months I'm guessing), but for the long term when I get better speakers and am watching more movies with my setup and less music/parties.
In a 12x 12 room you shouldn't be running 75% volume

What are you using to drive music towards your receiver? Ipod? What volume is the ipod at when you do this at max it should be 85%

I don't think the tweeters blowing normal
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post #20 of 32
2/3/13 at 12:38am
Your receiver is cryin bro. You're telling it to produce a volume that it can't sustain, and therefore will damage your speakers.

Get a better one or you'll have a 3rd blown tweeeet.
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post #21 of 32
2/3/13 at 1:15am
Another vote for a better receiver. if the 809 is currently out of your price range, accessories4less has the 709 refurb for $449. find a used 2 channel amp on your local craigslist or ebay or what ever for a few bills and you should be good to go. other wise you will keep blowing your tweets unless you learn to keep the volume down on your current avr....which inst very fun at all in my experience...i mean just looking at those 4 6.5 inch drivers all lined up in the 70's and not being able to get any decent volume levels outta them just plain sucks....i know.... After the second time i blew the tweets in my 70's i decided it was time for more power. got an xpa-5 recently and now no more (so far) blown speakers....and the added benefit of no harsh or distorted sounds hurting my ears at or near reference level. smile.gif
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post #22 of 32
2/3/13 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Ok, so I'm a ****** and didn't pull the trigger on the 809. Seriously, the dumbest decision I ever made. My Monitor 70 left tweeter is blown again or so I think. Either that, or the one that was shipped to me I didn't set it up correctly. If I drive my home theater set up at 3/4 volume (which is the max I can turn it up even if I'm drunk), is it normal for my speakers to be blowing like this? Should I just start looking for a new better receiver like the 809 again?

I'm seriously debating a receiver/amplifier combo at this point if this will fix this problem. Not just for the short term (I'll only be playing the speakers this loud for another 3 months I'm guessing), but for the long term when I get better speakers and am watching more movies with my setup and less music/parties.
In a 12x 12 room you shouldn't be running 75% volume

What are you using to drive music towards your receiver? Ipod? What volume is the ipod at when you do this at max it should be 85%

I don't think the tweeters blowing normal

from what I know, and from my direct experience, blowing the tweets is fairly common on the 70's when powered by underpowered receivers attempting to achieve reference or near reference levels in moderate to large spaces/listening positions at too great a distance. I killed my tweets twice....the second time I wasn't even trying...it just happened. the first time was definitely my fault...see earlier posts...

like i posted earlier in this thread, the tweeters on the 70's in my opinion are not week, it is just the price of entry on these speakers is/was pretty low therefor allowing new and/or inexperienced owners on tight budgets to power them off inadequate entry level receivers which in turn caused blown tweeters due to too high listening levels and the entry level receivers not being able to provide enough power with out clipping at high volume levels.

the second time I blew my tweeter was shortly after I moved into my new house late last year. I was watching "the book of eli" on blu. I had the volume level at about -18 when a gun shot in the film blew one of my tweeters. now in my new place my listening position is about 10.5-11 ft from my speakers, whereas in my old house I was about 6.5-7 ft away. my onkyo 809 was a fine replacement for my denon 1611 in my old house, but in the new larger space it just couldn't keep up.
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post #23 of 32
2/5/13 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 
Ya, I'm really depressed now that I didn't get the 809 at 450 (or 430 at one point I think).

I'm willing to pull the trigger now though. Are there any receivers like the 809 in the 450-500 range?

As for what I'm using as my source, it's my laptop over HDMI. I think I said this earlier, but my room pretty much sounds like a club. It's literally just a mini VIP party that continues off into the wee hours of the morning. Usually, we don't even play music at 75%, it's normally 50 out of 80 for volume at most 55/80. Also, I think my tweeters are running at +6 dbs on the receiver (anything less has always sounded funky in my room). Again though, I think an XPA-3, combined with a receiver with preouts, and a center channel, will fix that problem though.

Also, I'm VERY curious as to how the XPA -2 performs with the Polk Monitor 70s. The XPA 3 is what I was looking at though. At 700 dollars, it's a lot of money but IMO for the first 3 channels it's definitely worth it. How loud are you able to crank the XPA-3?
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post #24 of 32
2/5/13 at 4:49pm
where did you purchase that AVR? and how long ago?

Onkyo does have a 'trade-in" program, but AFAIK, it's on a case by case basis, unadvertised, for 'Onkyo owners who are "out of warranty" on their current defective unit". You would have to call Onkyo's customer service for anything specific. You may qualify, and it "may" give you another option. I can't be more specific for your situation, but if you give them a call... they might. Be really nice when you call... may not help, but wont hurt... wink.gif

I know that if I were a CSR, and I answered the call... and all you did was complain about Onkyo, how it's all their fault... blah, blah, ... then I wouldn't be willing to offer you ... I dunno... like somewhere between 39 and 41% off the listed sale price on any AVR listed on Shop Onkyo's refurb site (not the special 'sign in to see the price' page). Because obviously you wouldn't be interested in another Onkyo product... so why offer... something like a refurb 818 for $600 ish ... ? ... wouldn't be of any interest anyway, right?
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post #25 of 32
2/5/13 at 4:56pm
Thread Starter 
I'll have to ask about that. I bought it last year I think. I haven't owned it for more than 15 months. I bought it from Amazon.com. I am wary of refurbs though. My friend got one and the logic board broke and he had to send it back and it took months for the replacement. Granted sandy had just happened. I'd feel better if the replacement refurb was from onkyo. About how much do you think I'd be paying for a new receiver with the refurb return program? I'd prefer to get an 809 on the cheap rather than an 818 which has features I probably won't use lol.
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post #26 of 32
2/5/13 at 5:43pm
40% off $700... so $420 ? AFAIK, based on % discounts quoted on other models...
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post #27 of 32
2/6/13 at 6:50am
Thread Starter 
Ya, so if the 809 is 420 refurbished, should I go with that or a new one for 450 (assuming I can sell my current receiver for 200). Or a TX-NR717 for 550 but after selling my current receiver it'd be 350.

After all, it's pretty clear I need an external receiver so I'm really at this point buying I guess for preouts and features right? Then I'm just adding in an XPA-3 and later down the road a center channel since I missed out on the CS2.
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post #28 of 32
2/6/13 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Also, I'm VERY curious as to how the XPA -2 performs with the Polk Monitor 70s. The XPA 3 is what I was looking at though. At 700 dollars, it's a lot of money but IMO for the first 3 channels it's definitely worth it. How loud are you able to crank the XPA-3?

I had my M70's on the XPA-3 for several months. I upgraded to the A9's and added the XPA-2.

When I sold my M70's, I hooked them to the XPA-2 for the demo and cranked some Pink Floyd, Lenard Skynnard and some others.

Let me put it to you this way.....I'd never heard my 70's sound that good; clarity, depth, detail and bass? Wow, bass like I hadn't heard before (2ch).

When the kid bought them, he said, "Good, I don't have to feel bad about not getting a sub right away". I told him not to freak out if they didn't sound this good when he got home and explained the power I was feeding them was 300wpc.
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post #29 of 32
2/6/13 at 1:11pm
Thread Starter 
Haha that's funny because the reasoning behind me getting the XPA-3 was that if I ever upgraded to the RTI A9, I could just buy a second XPA-3.
Do you still think I'll get the same or similar performance from the XPA-3 as you did when you cranked them wiht the XPA-2?

This question still stands of course
"Ya, so if the 809 is 420 refurbished, should I go with that or a new one for 450 (assuming I can sell my current receiver for 200). Or a TX-NR717 for 550 but after selling my current receiver it'd be 350."
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post #30 of 32
2/6/13 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Haha that's funny because the reasoning behind me getting the XPA-3 was that if I ever upgraded to the RTI A9, I could just buy a second XPA-3.
Do you still think I'll get the same or similar performance from the XPA-3 as you did when you cranked them wiht the XPA-2?.

IMO, the 70's sounded way better with the extra ponies. When I first got my A9's, I still had the XPA-3. The sound of the new speaker over the old was dramatic, lots more clarity, depth, detail. But after the shine of the new sound wore off, the A9 sounded a bit shrill, harsh, or really bright. When I got the XPA-2, the A9's smoothed right out.

My goal is to sell off both my amps (XPA-3 and 2) and get the XPR-5. I've noticed with the Polks, more power, better sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

This question still stands of course
"Ya, so if the 809 is 420 refurbished, should I go with that or a new one for 450 (assuming I can sell my current receiver for 200). Or a TX-NR717 for 550 but after selling my current receiver it'd be 350."

Both AVRs have pre-outs which is what you'll need to add an amp however, I'd go for the AVR with the most power as it could come in handy if all it does is power surrounds which is what my 807 did in my case.
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