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Subwoofer under $800 new budget. - Page 2

post #31 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Right as I was about to purchase the xv15... I find this:
http://velodyne.com/eq-max-15.html on sale for 749.00 shipped

xv15. no contest

Yeah I took the time to read the audioholics review and xv15 seems to be the best in its price range

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post #32 of 93
The XV-15 for sure. I believe it is a dollar under your budget!!! $799 shipped. Tom and Jim are great to deal with, I don't think I have ever bought a product and received the customer service that Tom and Jim provided.

I have dual XV-30's and they just pound, I went through a bunch of subs and the XV-30's solved my bass problems . Audiohaulics awarded the XV-15, sub of the year and rightfully so. just an all around great sub for music and home theater. I am so looking forward to future products. I know you increased your budget, but if you could go a little more, you could look into the XS-30. That is a sealed sub with dual 15" drivers. Certainly another great bang for the buck! Good luck on your sub search.
post #33 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

The XV-15 for sure. I believe it is a dollar under your budget!!! $799 shipped. Tom and Jim are great to deal with, I don't think I have ever bought a product and received the customer service that Tom and Jim provided.
I have dual XV-30's and they just pound, I went through a bunch of subs and the XV-30's solved my bass problems . Audiohaulics awarded the XV-15, sub of the year and rightfully so. just an all around great sub for music and home theater. I am so looking forward to future products. I know you increased your budget, but if you could go a little more, you could look into the XS-30. That is a sealed sub with dual 15" drivers. Certainly another great bang for the buck! Good luck on your sub search.

+1
post #34 of 93
Thread Starter 
Agh I still cant make my decision.

Based on the audioholics vtf3 review conclusion the vtf3 is a better all around sub and thats the mk3 the mk4 should be an improvement.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/xv-15-subwoofer/xv-15-subwoofer-conclusion

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/vtf-3-mk3-sub/vtf-3-mk3-conclusion

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post #35 of 93
The hsu subs will let you run ported OR sealed so you can see what works best for you. Personally, I'd go with a 15h. It matches your room dimensions too smile.gif 15x15'. I have a vtf3mk3 in a 27x15x7.5' and is open to the rest of the house via doorways. It has zero problems pressurizing my space. I'd wait and save for the 15h since it gives you the power your after and the most adjustability.
post #36 of 93
I so wish there was a way to say which sub was the absolute best. It seems that every manfacturer just throws out numbers whether they mean anything or not. Then those who buy subs from one or the other backs their brand by using those same thrown out numbers.
post #37 of 93
Thread Starter 
Heres a rough sketch of the room. I only have two spots in which I can put the subwoofer I get whichever it may be (vtf3 or xv15).

?


The thing that's got me so indecisive is the review from audioholics for the vtf3 seems better overall and the fact that the vtf3 has variable tuning with q control. Output levels seem to be similar to my understanding? Or is there really that big a difference with the xv15 vs the vtf3?
post #38 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I so wish there was a way to say which sub was the absolute best. It seems that every manfacturer just throws out numbers whether they mean anything or not. Then those who buy subs from one or the other backs their brand by using those same thrown out numbers.

I'm not being cute or flip when I post regarding what's the absolute best for someone? What ever that might be, that's the one that's the absolute best for them.

The way I see it, there's two ways to evaluate subs. In one's price point, the first way is, what are the fact based test results? And the second is; what are the anecdotal comments based upon personal experience? And yes, in my opinion, anecdotal comments are a valid evaluative "tool." Do the comments personally speak to the reader?

What one should do is, find the facts that work for them and then see how those facts work with what others have to say on the matter. Is everybody talking your language? When one find facts and anecdotes that personally talk to them, they're best advised to pull the trigger and not look back. And if at a particular price point, one can't find anything that convincingly talks to them, it means they need to raise their budget and look to the next price point and keep doing this until they do find something that convincingly talks to them.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/25/12 at 12:45pm
post #39 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Heres a rough sketch of the room. I only have two spots in which I can put the subwoofer I get whichever it may be (vtf3 or xv15).
?
The thing that's got me so indecisive is the review from audioholics for the vtf3 seems better overall and the fact that the vtf3 has variable tuning with q control. Output levels seem to be similar to my understanding? Or is there really that big a difference with the xv15 vs the vtf3?

From what I can tell, both subs look roughly even in output, with a slight edge going to the XV15 in that respect, but both are going to pressurize your room with no problem. The XV15 has a better warranty coverage, and the VTF3 is a reliable sub but you can purchase an extended 5 year warranty for $80. The VTF3 has more features to control the sound, basically you can make it sound sharper but at the expense of extension. It looks like your listening position is against the wall, you are going to get monster bass there, especially in a room of that size. Bass tends to be much stronger near surfaces, so if you really do watch moves and listen to music next to the wall, these subs might be overkill, not that overkill is a bad thing, but I am saying you might also get satisfactory bass from a XS15 or a VTF2.
post #40 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Heres a rough sketch of the room. I only have two spots in which I can put the subwoofer I get whichever it may be (vtf3 or xv15).
?
The thing that's got me so indecisive is the review from audioholics for the vtf3 seems better overall and the fact that the vtf3 has variable tuning with q control. Output levels seem to be similar to my understanding? Or is there really that big a difference with the xv15 vs the vtf3?

From what I can tell, both subs look roughly even in output, with a slight edge going to the XV15 in that respect, but both are going to pressurize your room with no problem. The XV15 has a better warranty coverage, and the VTF3 is a reliable sub but you can purchase an extended 5 year warranty for $80. The VTF3 has more features to control the sound, basically you can make it sound sharper but at the expense of extension. It looks like your listening position is against the wall, you are going to get monster bass there, especially in a room of that size. Bass tends to be much stronger near surfaces, so if you really do watch moves and listen to music next to the wall, these subs might be overkill, not that overkill is a bad thing, but I am saying you might also get satisfactory bass from a XS15 or a VTF2.

Thats why I thought about getting the sb12-nsd because I thought it was enough and if I ever moved into a bigger area a 2nd one would do. And yes I would be sitting/laying in bed close to a wall.

Now what do you mean exactly by "at the expense of extension"?

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post #41 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Now what do you mean exactly by "at the expense of extension"?

I think he means at the expense of being able to reproduce lower frequencies or "extension."
post #42 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I think he means at the expense of being able to reproduce lower frequencies or "extension."

Yes, this.

Also, the SB12, it's probably not on the level of the XS15 or VTF2 let alone the VTF3 or XV15. I don't think it would sound bad, but even in the best of circumstances I can't believe it would give you massive bass. It's a sub for situations where size is a limiting factor, but if you don't have to deal with size, the larger subs will always be a better value.
post #43 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Agh I still cant make my decision.

Based on the audioholics vtf3 review conclusion the vtf3 is a better all around sub and thats the mk3 the mk4 should be an improvement.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/xv-15-subwoofer/xv-15-subwoofer-conclusion

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/vtf-3-mk3-sub/vtf-3-mk3-conclusion

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looks like you are more convinced by the audioholics score card of the VTF-MK3 from 6 years ago?
so if with go by their score card then that means that their top of the line HSU VTF-15H is a inferior sub vs the VFT-MK3?

it doesn't make sense right?
post #44 of 93
Thread Starter 
I ended up placing an order on the outlaw lfm-1 plus for 499 shipped because the fiance didn't approve of the xv15 for 799.

From the reviews I've read and the recommendations the lfm1 plus should be more than enough for this room. Thank you guys for all the help! Ill post pictures when I recieve it smile.gif

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post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

looks like you are more convinced by the audioholics score card of the VTF-MK3 from 6 years ago?
so if with go by their score card then that means that their top of the line HSU VTF-15H is a inferior sub vs the VFT-MK3?
it doesn't make sense right?
Doesn't make sense at all and there was a huge debacle about that 15h review that Paul from Audioholics did. So much so that they did a second review and Paul's attitude was still unprofessional about it. From what I took of that review Paul was bashing the 15h for starting to roll off at 30hz, but so does the xv15 and they give it sub of the year??? There was all kinds of accusations from money exchanging hands and hsu doesn't support them, but other companies do blah, blah, blah. Take those reviews with a grain of salt. I like real world fellow forum members reviews and the shoot out thread here on AVS help me make up my mind and I have no regrets at all.

I also own the lfm-1 plus and for the price it is a kick ass sub, but it can't compare to the 15h and I don't think duals would either. At the end of the day all of these subs that are regularly mentioned from hsu, SVS, psa, rythmik, outlaw, epik, etc. are all very similar and you should be happy with any one of them if it meets your price point at the time. Get the one that at the very top of your budget and if you like it and get bit with the upgrade bug in the future buy a second! Grats on your purchase.
post #46 of 93
Your better off buying a pair of lower priced subwoofers, that meet your budget, rather than one higher priced sub.

Multiple subs help even out the bass response over a larger seating area.
A secondary effect is to help reduce the excessively long decay times of the prominent modal frequencies.

Here's a terrific analogy of an A/C window unit versus central air.
The window unit (single sub) will deliver blasts of cool air at one spot, with little at others.

When it comes to bass, the goal is smooth and even at all listening locations.
post #47 of 93
>>>From what I took of that review Paul was bashing the 15h for starting to roll off at 30hz, but so does the xv15 and they give it sub of the year???<<<<br />


I'm not trying to step on any toes here but the XV15 has a very controlled rolloff undrer 30hz. From 30hz to 20hz I believe it measured only 2.5dB down....outside. This is *very* different from sharp filtering that it is being compared to here.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #48 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Doesn't make sense at all and there was a huge debacle about that 15h review that Paul from Audioholics did. So much so that they did a second review and Paul's attitude was still unprofessional about it. From what I took of that review Paul was bashing the 15h for starting to roll off at 30hz, but so does the xv15 and they give it sub of the year??? There was all kinds of accusations from money exchanging hands and hsu doesn't support them, but other companies do blah, blah, blah. Take those reviews with a grain of salt. I like real world fellow forum members reviews and the shoot out thread here on AVS help me make up my mind and I have no regrets at all.
I also own the lfm-1 plus and for the price it is a kick ass sub, but it can't compare to the 15h and I don't think duals would either. At the end of the day all of these subs that are regularly mentioned from hsu, SVS, psa, rythmik, outlaw, epik, etc. are all very similar and you should be happy with any one of them if it meets your price point at the time. Get the one that at the very top of your budget and if you like it and get bit with the upgrade bug in the future buy a second! Grats on your purchase.

Audioholics revised some of the test data since Paul's review of the 15H. IMHO, the numbers are still about 2-3db conservative on the 15H, but it is what it is. It would have been nice if Ricci could have measured the 15H as I suspect the numbers would be a little higher across the board.

The 15H and the XV-15 are a toss up IMHO. If you have the extra cash, I would tend to say get the 15H. If your budget is a hard $800, then get the XV-15. Can't go wrong with either choice and it seems both companies are well supported.
post #49 of 93
The XV15 has a better warranty on the electronics, you can get an extended warranty on the 15H but you also have to pay extra for it. HSU has a longer warranty on the woofer over PSA but I'm pretty sure a amp would go before a woofer. Also the warranty is transferable on any PSA product, which is another plus. Just a few things to keep in mind.
post #50 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The 15H and the XV-15 are a toss up IMHO. If you have the extra cash, I would tend to say get the 15H.

Suppose that you are asked to justify the 15H's higher price (including shipping and five year warranty so it can actually match the XV15's value). What will you say? What's in the 15H that explains why it costs so much more? Mind you "so much more" means $900 to start, then $140 to ship, and another $100 for a real amp warranty.
post #51 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Suppose that you are asked to justify the 15H's higher price (including shipping and five year warranty so it can actually match the XV15's value). What will you say? What's in the 15H that explains why it costs so much more? Mind you "so much more" means $900 to start, then $140 to ship, and another $100 for a real amp warranty.

I own the 15H but haven't heard the XV-15. I wish I had the chance to audition several 15" subs before buying one but I guess that is all part of the game. I would have trusted my ears more than any numbers. If I had it to do over again I would have found a way to listen to the XV-15 and Rythmik's 15 incher before making a purchase. I think I made a good decision but was it the most informed one? Hardly. The shipping charges on the sub were a real sore spot with me. Just add the shipping into the price like everyone else does so there is a better apples to apples comparison on price at least.

Internet Direct companies allow the consumer to get more bang for their buck but the model also allows way too much static and misinformation to enter into the sub research process. The lack of a place to go and actually audition any of these subs really puts a buying decision in limbo. I guess if you live in one of those cities where the ID subs are made you can go and listen for yourself but 99.9% of us don't.

We see one review on a sub and it's the greatest thing ever and then it's reviewed by the next company and the sub has major shortcomings. Supposidly all of these 'professionals' all look for the same thing from the subs.

Yeah, there is a 30 day return on most of them but who really wants to go through paying a huge shipping return fee and lug those huge things around again if they aren't broken.
Edited by Prime316 - 12/27/12 at 8:55am
post #52 of 93
Don't doubt yourself. Continue enjoying your killer sub, which the VTF-15H is, by any reasonable interpretation. Me, I'm still very much in love with my PC12-NSD, which is outclassed in measurable ways by every sub being discussed here. I'm cool with that, it does exactly what I'd hoped, was bought at a small price, and still makes me happy. Who cares what some other dude bought? I ain't him.

It's just that I've been closely watching PSA's offerings and it looks like each one of their products is targeted at the consumer as a cheaper and as-good-or-better version of another sub that's well regarded by the community. Anybody else notice this? Inspect those price points and those measurements, and especially specific frequency response charts. It's hard not to see once you've seen it.

"Clever girl..." -- a dude who's about to get snuffed
post #53 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

>>>From what I took of that review Paul was bashing the 15h for starting to roll off at 30hz, but so does the xv15 and they give it sub of the year???<<<<br /> I'm not trying to step on any toes here but the XV15 has a very controlled rolloff undrer 30hz. From 30hz to 20hz I believe it measured only 2.5dB down....outside. This is *very* different from sharp filtering that it is being compared to here.
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Thanks Tom maybe you can help me out. From what I've read the xv15 has about 1.5db greater output than the 15h at 40-60hz, but has about 2db less output than the 15h at 20-35 roughly? I am just trying to get a better understanding of how different these 2 subs actually are as they look pretty similar to me. Besides just being curious I have been wanting to get a second 15h, but with your new subs out and the value that they are I may end up getting an xv15. Do you think they would mesh well. You can PM me if you don't want to discuss in the public forum. Thanks!
post #54 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Thanks Tom maybe you can help me out. From what I've read the xv15 has about 1.5db greater output than the 15h at 40-60hz, but has about 2db less output than the 15h at 20-35 roughly? I am just trying to get a better understanding of how different these 2 subs actually are as they look pretty similar to me. Besides just being curious I have been wanting to get a second 15h, but with your new subs out and the value that they are I may end up getting an xv15. Do you think they would mesh well. You can PM me if you don't want to discuss in the public forum. Thanks!

That's about right IIRC.

The one difference Josh Ricci and Power Sound Audio had when doing the CEA stuff was the subwoofer orientation. CEA specifies the active drive unit to face the mic. Well, the XV15 is a down firing unit so we weren't sure what would be the correct(fair) orientation. When I looked at Josh's past measurements the only down firing subwoofer I could find was the outlaw which he did lay on its side to have the driver firing right at the mic even though no one would use it that way in-room. So we did 6 measurements, 3 oriented down firing and 3 oriented like the outlaw in Josh's test. Then we average all 6 and posted the numbers on our website. Josh's number's are down about 1 to 1.5dB from ours because of this difference. That would make our 20-31hz average about 107 and the 40-63 average about 116.5dB(if Josh would have measured out unit the same way he did with the outlaw)..

If you already have one 15H I'd just go ahead and get a second identical unit if budget allows. It's a good design and this way you don't have to worry about any potential issue that may arise when mixing different subs. I'm sure dual 15H subs will really rock in your room..smile.gif


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #55 of 93
Thread Starter 
My lfm1 should by coming in on friday. Any suggestions for placement of the sub? Ideally theres only two places where I can put it which I illustrated a few posts back but maybe I can work something out?

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post #56 of 93
Now that's class.
post #57 of 93
Thread Starter 
If I do experience the port chuffing other people have had would polyfill help with this?

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post #58 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

If I do experience the port chuffing other people have had would polyfill help with this?
No. Chuffing is caused by a insufficient port area. Insufficient port area is usually the result of making the box too small to begin with, which doesn't allow a port of adequate area to fit into the cab.
post #59 of 93
Thread Starter 
edaqedut.jpg
Nice looks like it'll be here a day early. Perfect as I just got the sub cable from momoprice today. Should be here by tomorrow when I get home from work. I'll post pics whem I can.

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post #60 of 93
Thread Starter 
Finally got it today. First thing I've gor to say is its huge and it has a very very nice finish. MUCH nicer than what you see on the pictures in the product site. Won't have time to play with it till tomorrow but here are some pics:

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