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Tekton Pendragon - Page 40

post #1171 of 1749
The beauty of internet forums. These two statements from the same post:

"I wouldn't base my buying decisions on some VERY SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS that can change on a dime."

"But, man, stay away from Tekton. There is nothing high quality about this company from what I've read."
post #1172 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensctt View Post

The beauty of internet forums. These two statements from the same post:

"I wouldn't base my buying decisions on some VERY SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS that can change on a dime."

"But, man, stay away from Tekton. There is nothing high quality about this company from what I've read."
Yes, I know. I value his input though because of the speakers and equipment he has right now and has gone thru. Hell, he owns more quality speakers at one time than most of us will never see or hear in our lifetimes.
post #1173 of 1749
Having wads of cash to me doesn't lend credence to your subjective opinion . Pro reviewers have heard five times as many speakers but we can't put much stock in what they say cuz there all in the pockets of the speaker companies . :screwy:
Oh and reading other posts makes you an informed opinion on a product you have never heard eek.gif
post #1174 of 1749
I've managed to fight my way through this entire thread and find myself with one essential question. For those of you who have ordered Enzo's in recent months, have they been delivered to you? And no, I don't care about grills ( I don't use them). Earlier tonight on E-Bay, I lost out, with three seconds left, no less, on a pair of Zu speakers that I really, really wanted. These particular speakers wont be available again, as they haven't been made in several years, and Zu was only selling them for a friend in the business. Given that I unfortunately missed out on those, the Enzo's are likely my only remaining truly desirable, and usable option in this price range. I would also have considered the Seas Pendragons, but based on comments, it seems the Enzo's have surpassed those, and the smaller footprint would work better for my situation.

I am hoping that they are able to be ordered and received within a three to four month window.


John
post #1175 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Having wads of cash to me doesn't lend credence to your subjective opinion . Pro reviewers have heard five times as many speakers but we can't put much stock in what they say cuz there all in the pockets of the speaker companies . :screwy:
Oh and reading other posts makes you an informed opinion on a product you have never heard eek.gif
This too.
post #1176 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TRUE ONE View Post

Hell, he owns more quality speakers at one time than most of us will never see or hear in our lifetimes.
This just makes a man an Eccentric speaker collector. The only reason I see for a man owning multiple sets of speakers at one time for the same room is he just has not come across the ONE yet. Anyone who goes on threads solely to be negative about a speaker they have never heard or a company they have never dealt with should speak more about the person posting then their actual posts.
Instead of being negative, Why not Just Let it be?
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 9/6/13 at 5:01am
post #1177 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Having wads of cash to me doesn't lend credence to your subjective opinion . Pro reviewers have heard five times as many speakers but we can't put much stock in what they say cuz there all in the pockets of the speaker companies . :screwy:
The thing about the Internet is that it's allowed for the creation of all sorts of experts. Millions of social media experts. Thousands of websites and reviewers of alternative medicines and nutritional supplements. And of course, many so called pro reviewers of all sorts of audio equipment. While the Internet has spawned an unprecedented glut of information, the same cannot be said for a commensurate glut of knowledge.

The work that's submitted by many so called pro reviewers isn't vetted for accuracy. By no stretch of the imagination are the writings intended to provide a reasonable overview of the person or company WRT the health of the business or its ethics. There are in fact some businesses that provide product or services that are not even properly registered in the state in which they operate.

When companies send out products for review, they have a fairly good idea what sort of reception they'll receive. Likewise, not every reviewer who requests a product for review will be accommodated. Companies would like to be fairly sure their product will not be judged harshly and that the reviewer will choose the right audiophile approved terms and phrases even when there are deficiencies so as not to make them appear glaring.

This is no different when it comes to what TV or radio network a political candidate will appear on. If you're liberal you don't want a no holds barred Q&A session on a conservative program. You go on MSNBC. The converse is equally applicable. If you're promoting Coral Calcium, you don't appear at a bona fide medical convention.

In general, when it comes to audio publications, they shun controversial reviews which cast products in a negative light. There's a reason why a reviewer such as nwavguy gets banned on some websites after he points out inconsistencies in a particular product by Schiit.

Now it's true some of these reviewers have heard a great many products. More than us for sure. But just because someone has heard a wide body of speakers does not by extension automatically give their personal assessment great weight. After all, the person at the counter who sells you your prescriptions does not make him qualified to offer an opinion as to their efficacy.
Quote:
Oh and reading other posts makes you an informed opinion on a product you have never heard eek.gif
Well, reading posts from some who have had a product for a while may well point out issues WRT its operation, service, and reliability, no?

Earlier, it may have been you or others who said how can it be that all these 'pro reviews' are saying the same thing? Does not the general uniformity count for something? Well, if they all arrived at their positions independently of each other, maybe yes. But it's a trivial matter nowadays to read about what's being said. After all, if I borrow heavily from one person's writings, that's considered plagiarism if I borrow from many people, that's considered research.
post #1178 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


This just makes a man an Eccentric speaker collector. The only reason I see for a man owning multiple sets of speakers at one time for the same room is he just has not come across the ONE yet. Anyone who goes on threads solely to be negative about a speaker they have never heard or a company they have never dealt with should speak more about the person posting then their actual posts.
Instead of being negative, Why not Just Let it be?
Chris

No one should really be that surprised, he goes on about how crappy JTR speakers sound while only ever hearing some of the first generation 888's before they even had the CD&crossover upgrades and tells people that Klipsch Ultra2's would sound better then 228HT's because they measure so awesome while never hearing them for himself.

Anyone that puts down speakers without hearing then for themselves always seems to make me wonder what's going on in their head.
Edited by jbrown15 - 9/6/13 at 8:48am
post #1179 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

No one should really be that surprised, he goes on about how crappy JTR speakers sound while only ever hearing some of the first generation 888's before they even had the CD&crossover upgrades and tells people that Klipsch Ultra2's would sound better then 228HT's because they measure so awesome while never hearing them for himself.

Anyone that puts down speakers without hearing then for themselves always seems to make me wonder what's going on in their head.

I understand what you are saying, but I do not have to hear some speakers to know that they are not going to be the right tool for the job. As an example, a customer that wants clean reference levels from 12' away is not going to get that with a speaker that has 86 db sensitivity and 200 watts power handling. I think you have two things that you have to look at. One is if the speaker is capable of providing what is wanted and two, if the customer likes the sound of the speaker.

I am referring to speakers in general, not to the speakers this thread is about.
Reply
Reply
post #1180 of 1749
^^^^ and I understand that too, but its funny that he goes on about Tekton speakers being a terrible design while never hearing them for himself. And does he design speakers for a living? No, so how does he know if they're a good design or not.
post #1181 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

The thing about the Internet is that it's allowed for the creation of all sorts of experts. Millions of social media experts. Thousands of websites and reviewers of alternative medicines and nutritional supplements. And of course, many so called pro reviewers of all sorts of audio equipment. While the Internet has spawned an unprecedented glut of information, the same cannot be said for a commensurate glut of knowledge.

The work that's submitted by many so called pro reviewers isn't vetted for accuracy. By no stretch of the imagination are the writings intended to provide a reasonable overview of the person or company WRT the health of the business or its ethics. There are in fact some businesses that provide product or services that are not even properly registered in the state in which they operate.

When companies send out products for review, they have a fairly good idea what sort of reception they'll receive. Likewise, not every reviewer who requests a product for review will be accommodated. Companies would like to be fairly sure their product will not be judged harshly and that the reviewer will choose the right audiophile approved terms and phrases even when there are deficiencies so as not to make them appear glaring.

This is no different when it comes to what TV or radio network a political candidate will appear on. If you're liberal you don't want a no holds barred Q&A session on a conservative program. You go on MSNBC. The converse is equally applicable. If you're promoting Coral Calcium, you don't appear at a bona fide medical convention.

In general, when it comes to audio publications, they shun controversial reviews which cast products in a negative light. There's a reason why a reviewer such as nwavguy gets banned on some websites after he points out inconsistencies in a particular product by Schiit.

Now it's true some of these reviewers have heard a great many products. More than us for sure. But just because someone has heard a wide body of speakers does not by extension automatically give their personal assessment great weight. After all, the person at the counter who sells you your prescriptions does not make him qualified to offer an opinion as to their efficacy.
Well, reading posts from some who have had a product for a while may well point out issues WRT its operation, service, and reliability, no?

Earlier, it may have been you or others who said how can it be that all these 'pro reviews' are saying the same thing? Does not the general uniformity count for something? Well, if they all arrived at their positions independently of each other, maybe yes. But it's a trivial matter nowadays to read about what's being said. After all, if I borrow heavily from one person's writings, that's considered plagiarism if I borrow from many people, that's considered research.

Chu its well known your hatred of pro reviewers. Yet you give your opinions of what speakers are good without ever hearing them. And to top it off your chicken to ever say what speakers you have. You say its not relevant ! Bs ! Its totally relevant because it shows your pattern of buying .

You always assume that we the consumer are mindless idiots ,not up to your level of sophistication that you posess. We are not aware of bias , can't read a a review and read between the lines. Many reviews are not glowing . If the rating is 4 out of 5 and the product only gets a 4 which many due then its just OK . Only 5 out of 5 is outstanding .

Yes reading one reviewer and taking their word as Gospel is silly. When ten reviewers say basically the same thing then it has some credence .

What I dislike about the internet isn't people with little knowledge . Its people who just wait to pounce on a thread and be negative . I just finished reading a six month old thread on audioholics where you argued with a dozen people about the value of diy speakers . You must be real fun to go with on a car trip
post #1182 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

^^^^ and I understand that too, but its funny that he goes on about Tekton speakers being a terrible design while never hearing them for himself. And does he design speakers for a living? No, so how does he know if they're a good design or not.

What I love about the terrible design is that it assumes eric doesn't know about the beaming issues in using a 10" driver and any issues with three tweeters . He is going to throw away the 15 years experience to create a speaker with huge gaps in sound that only are appreciated by neandrathal owners.
Guess these same designers would have forced jim furyk to change his golf swing along with Bubba Watson . They don't follow convention either. Russell Wilson is to short for the NFL and usain bolt is too tall for a sprinter. Before you say its apples and oranges , I am talking about judging something on its results .... not its technique . If you have heard tekton and measured them in your own house and then compared that measurement to another speaker in your own house then that would count for more to me. Measurements are part of the picture not all of it. Just read a great article about jeff bagby , and how he voices his speakers . He uses measurement and his ear roughly 50/50.
post #1183 of 1749
Okay, back on the subject, there are 3 reviews I know of that basically rave about the pendragons. There are at least 2 different people in this thread that had blown tweeters but, I believe just 1 person had 2-3 of them alone which I would say is probably something on his end at fault.(just guessing) Of the people who did buy them and have posted pics, they have mostly loved them and kept them. Quality wise for the money you can't complain about the cabinets at all, maybe the components but, I am not that knowledgeable about that section to give an opinion. Customer service is a hit or miss it seems like, either you wait for a few months for your order or just a few weeks like it should be. And I won't even get into the grille issues, that's just a thread on it's own. I would just like to hear them once before I bought them though.
post #1184 of 1749
I believe the blown tweeter was for the lore model. I wouldn't buy tekton for at least a couple of months to make sure the production times tighten up.
post #1185 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Chu its well known your hatred of pro reviewers. Yet you give your opinions of what speakers are good without ever hearing them. And to top it off your chicken to ever say what speakers you have. You say its not relevant ! Bs ! Its totally relevant because it shows your pattern of buying .
Let's clarify this a bit. I don't hate all reviewers. I simply don't think many aren't particularly thoughtful and rely on a very predictable format that doesn't require much effort. It's like when it seemed everyone was designing webpagres using Microsoft's Frontpage.

Further it's a cold day in hell when I EVER give an opinion or recommendation on speakers. I will comment on what I perceive as design deficiencies such as with crossovers and occasionally on their suitability for a given purpose. I'll also comment on business ethics and customer service. But as far as recommending them when people ask what they should buy, nope.

As to what speakers I own, I don't feel that's of any relevance. But since you're just so curious, I've got a pair of older Whispers, Time Windows from back in the day, NHt Super Zero 2.0’s for HT, a very old pair of large Marantz that I'm refurbishing, and I do a fair amount of listening through some Stax Earspeakers. But so what? BTW, I trust that you don't advocate teaching your children to goad people by calling them chicken.
Quote:
You always assume that we the consumer are mindless idiots ,not up to your level of sophistication that you posess. We are not aware of bias , can't read a a review and read between the lines. Many reviews are not glowing . If the rating is 4 out of 5 and the product only gets a 4 which many due then its just OK . Only 5 out of 5 is outstanding
If I wanted to say that, I would have. People wouldn't have to read between the lines if reviewers spoke forthrightly. And just because some may be aware of bias, doesn't mean they can control for it. But really, if one puts serious stock in what CNet, PF and some others have to say while never once asking pertinent questions, that's pretty mindless. Haven't we had enough of blind trust when it comes to what companies, the government, and the media feed us?
Quote:
Yes reading one reviewer and taking their word as Gospel is silly. When ten reviewers say basically the same thing then it has some credence.
It might or it might be plagiarism masquerading as research. If a teacher asks students to write on a subject and they uniformly say essentially the same thing I know what I call it.
Quote:
What I dislike about the internet isn't people with little knowledge . Its people who just wait to pounce on a thread and be negative . I just finished reading a six month old thread on audioholics where you argued with a dozen people about the value of diy speakers . You must be real fun to go with on a car trip
So what is it you like? Every thread should be kumbyah session where we all get along and sugar coat everything? Nice to know I'm being followed by you though. Not everyone in that thread was in accord with DIY and one of my points was that IMO, one can't place a $0 value on one's time when evaluating the cost of some project. Point, counterpoint. You decide.
post #1186 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post



Further it's a cold day in hell when I EVER give an opinion or recommendation on speakers. I will comment on what I perceive as design deficiencies such as with crossovers and occasionally on their suitability for a given purpose. I'll also comment on business ethics and customer service. But as far as recommending them when people ask what they should buy, nope.

I have never seen a better example of semantics. I trash the design, components, and proper use , and have never heard it but I don't make recommendations. Sounds like a politician to me

As to what speakers I own, I don't feel that's of any relevance. But since you're just so curious, I've got a pair of older Whispers, Time Windows from back in the day, NHt Super Zero 2.0’s for HT, a very old pair of large Marantz that I'm refurbishing, and I do a fair amount of listening through some Stax Earspeakers. But so what? BTW, I trust that you don't advocate teaching your children to goad people by calling them chicken.

I am not communicating with a child , and your one who has taken pot shots at Eric in dozens of posts.

Haven't we had enough of blind trust when it comes to what companies, the government, and the media feed us?

Who said blind trust. Another example of you skewing the facts. I said that collecting several pro reviews is a part of the research process. Included is other members feedback, hearing the speakers if you can, as well as phoning the company and talking with them as well. For some measurements is a big part but for me not as big.


It might or it might be plagiarism masquerading as research. If a teacher asks students to write on a subject and they uniformly say essentially the same thing I know what I call it.
So what is it you like? Every thread should be kumbyah session where we all get along and sugar coat everything?

If I as a woodwork teacher (which I am for 18 years) ask my students if they like the project they just completed and my survey concludes that 8 out of ten students really enjoyed it and give logical, well thought reasons then this is plagiarism ??? I constantly ask my students for feedback and incorparate that feedback into my program. I don't follow it blindly but it plays a roll.

As for kumbyah do you actually read my posts. I just said i wouldn't buy tekton right now until they can show a better track record with production lead times. I have called Eric a flat out liar with some of his business dealings. I don't have an issue with balanced conversation. Your track record on almost all threads is negativity and making accusations of people being dishonest without any direct knowledge of the situation.

I will sum up my post with a challenge. I know you think Andrew Robinson is biased, paid off, and a terrible pro reviewer. You show me a link to one of his speaker reviews ( can go back 8 years) where his final conclusion of that speaker is way off. You must have heard that speaker yourself. Many of his reviews are not all rosy. . Is he perfect , no... is he biased to a certain sound, sure.. Does he use some of the flowery language ... sure. Would I buy something just from his opinion... hell no. Believe it or not we are all not mindless zombies
post #1187 of 1749
I cannot think of a reason to comment favorably upon a crossover design that lays out the inductors where they're not orthogonal to each other yet are in close proximity, can you? And just because others may do it does not justify it. It's only saving grace is that it's expedient. One doesn't need to hear a speaker to make such comments.

Pot shots, if that's what you want to call them, WRT his business practices are fully justified. Should one prefer the 'dog ate my homework' rationalizations offered by some reviewers? Companies don't get better if consumers don't demand better treatment and point out their screwups.

Let's look at another example of pro reviews. Recently I saw the movie, 'Looking for a Friend for the End of the World' with Steve Carrel. Google that movie up and read the many websites that review it and offer a synopsis. Think they all came up with those words independent of each other?

I respect your profession and have fond memories of wood and metal shop in high school. And yes, I do read your posts and acknowledge your cautioning statements regarding Tekton. We are not so different in this regard. As to not having spoken with Eric, why would that give anyone a fair and honest assessment? If the NSA and IRS can lie (misspeak) to the American Congress and public what on earth would make anyone think that one automatically gets the truth from talking to someone?

WRT Robinson, he should recuse himself from offering reviews from a company that has been not only a paid advertiser but has also graciously donated a pair of speakers to him. People tend to be accommodating and speak nicely when they've benefitted in some way. To my knowledge, in his past writings going back years he did not have his own website. I further can't speak to any accommodations he may have received.

Over and out!
post #1188 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TRUE ONE View Post

Yes, I know. I value his input though because of the speakers and equipment he has right now and has gone thru. Hell, he owns more quality speakers at one time than most of us will never see or hear in our lifetimes.

I'm just speaking nonchalantly. I'm not trying to write a dissertation or thesis. So I'm not going to lose any sleep over a few wordings. biggrin.gif

But, apparently Tekton fanboys care about that sort. biggrin.gif

Bottom line, it's disconcerting seeing all the complaints regarding such a small company - 3 complaints of blown tweeters seem extraordinary high for such a small demographic & no one has even gotten their promised grilles?

I've read enough reviews and heard enough speakers to believe the Tekton speakers can sound very good.

I wholeheartedly believe that Andrew Robinson loves the sound of Tekton speakers the same way he loves the sound of so many speakers.

I also like many speakers. biggrin.gif

So my qualm isn't regarding the subjective SQ. It's regarding the equivocal honesty and speaker design.

There are other less risky alternatives. wink.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 9/7/13 at 8:35am
post #1189 of 1749
Chu Gai, I've got a pair of the Pendragons and they are the bomb yo. Even using ghetto terms, my opinion holds much more credence than yours. I own them. Didn't order grills, but got the speakers in 6 weeks or so. Took 2 months for the subwoofer. You sound like a deluded old man that has been lied to and screwed over so much in life that he's skeptical of everything and everyone. My dad was like you. Go here, http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/, It's more your speed. I agree that the grill issue needs to and should have already been resolved, but every post I read from you is so negative, It's almost like someone that wants Tekton to fail paid you to write them smile.gif
post #1190 of 1749
No need to personally attack anyone. We are just expressing opinions.

Nothing personally. smile.gif

Let's all grab a few beers. wink.gif
post #1191 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

No need to personally attack anyone. We are just expressing opinions.

Nothing personally. smile.gif

He has personally attacked Andrew Robinson and Eric Alexander.
post #1192 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxriggs View Post

Chu Gai, I've got a pair of the Pendragons and they are the bomb yo. Even using ghetto terms, my opinion holds much more credence than yours. I own them. Didn't order grills, but got the speakers in 6 weeks or so. Took 2 months for the subwoofer. You sound like a deluded old man that has been lied to and screwed over so much in life that he's skeptical of everything and everyone. My dad was like you. Go here, http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/, It's more your speed. I agree that the grill issue needs to and should have already been resolved, but every post I read from you is so negative, It's almost like someone that wants Tekton to fail paid you to write them smile.gif
Oh SNAP;)
post #1193 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxriggs View Post

He has personally attacked Andrew Robinson and Eric Alexander.

He hasn't attacked Eric, he's questioned his business practices. Which should be considering some of the things he's done.
post #1194 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxriggs View Post

Chu Gai, I've got a pair of the Pendragons and they are the bomb yo. Even using ghetto terms, my opinion holds much more credence than yours. I own them. Didn't order grills, but got the speakers in 6 weeks or so. Took 2 months for the subwoofer. You sound like a deluded old man that has been lied to and screwed over so much in life that he's skeptical of everything and everyone. My dad was like you. Go here, http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/, It's more your speed. I agree that the grill issue needs to and should have already been resolved, but every post I read from you is so negative, It's almost like someone that wants Tekton to fail paid you to write them smile.gif
post #1195 of 1749
Daxx.Tell us more about your new speakers.
post #1196 of 1749
DAX from my understanding you shouldn't need subs with the pens. But you have them. What's your thoughts on a sub with. The pens - and which sub do you have?
post #1197 of 1749
For movies you would need the sub . Which sub did u get ?
post #1198 of 1749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I've got a pair of older Whispers, Time Windows from back in the day, NHt Super Zero 2.0’s for HT, a very old pair of large Marantz that I'm refurbishing, and I do a fair amount of listening through some Stax Earspeakers.

You have DCM Time Windows? I love those speakers! I grew up with them (and the TF series). I have a pair of Time Windows that I got off a guy on Craigslist. They are in perfect shape and sound like I remembered. Steve Eberbach was/is a genius...

Update on my Pendragons: These speakers are still blowing my mind with how great they are. I've pretty much decided on getting the center and surrounds as well. So I guess I'll be dealing with Eric again soon... wink.gif
post #1199 of 1749
AcuDefTechGuy what do you mean bad speaker design?
I looked up some of the speakers crossovers in your list and B&W, Revel, Focal have similar placement of the coils. If anything, the Tekton are point to point wiring with no connectors or circuit boards, which I gather is a better way of doing them from the little reading on the net I did. Also I gather the less parts you can use in the crossover to meet your design targets, usually the better.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/rocky501/BW800D-9_zps1258251c.jpg

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/rocky501/focal1006mfnews1_zps16351b71.jpg

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/rocky501/prod_salon_circuitwebb_zps1655c1e8.jpg

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/rocky501/prod_C12_crossover_resizeb_zps33751c32.jpg

My Tekton Enzo
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/rocky501/P1130745_zps8c62dd72.jpg

Most speakers I have owned or tried, I would have no idea what the crossovers looked like. I normally go by how they sound to me. I am sure it is the same for you?
Edited by rocky500 - 9/7/13 at 8:41pm
post #1200 of 1749
^^^^ honestly I'm surprised at how amateur and cheaply made those crossovers look. Guys over in the DIY section make better looking crossovers then the ones in your Enzo's.
And I say that as someone that is still interested in actually buying some Pendragons.
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