THE Tape VCR Thread

I also still like to use vcr's. Often tape favorite discs to them as a backup

Their also good to hookup other devices to the inputs.

I'm not a tech guy, and probably will only post occasionaly but I

agree with your opinion about vcr's & hope they will not 'fade away'.

There is nothing to "keep alive" - we can barely keep DVD Recorders (the subject of this subforum) alive, never mind VCRs. USA/Canada consumers have almost completely abandoned removable media recording: all of it is "dead" except for a hardcore consortium here of geeks and luddites, who make strange bedfellows indeed.

Unless you somehow manage to make this thread a sticky, it will disappear within a couple weeks the way most threads do. But don't worry: there are many VCR-related AVS threads in the DVD Recorder forum, they come and go as needed when a fresh group of members suddenly becomes interested in VCRs (either because they're just now switching to DVD instead, or they've finally decided to tackle a long-delayed VHS>DVD conversion project). And you'd be surprised how many unrelated threads get diverted onto a VCR nostalgia trip, when the original topic gets exhausted and someone name-drops a classic VCR.

The difficulty nowadays with the VCR topic is that there's little left to discuss that hasn't already been hashed over in other threads going back years. Of the thousands of VCR models made over the past 30 years, few of the "top" or "best" models were recent or relevant enough to have survived thru the DVD transition. These few models have been discussed and debated hundreds of times. All other VCRs have either been junked because they break down, or are so ordinary there isn't anything to say about them beyond "they're reliable, pedestrian, cheap, and still usually work when you find them." Most members currently interested in VCRs aren't interested in ordinary: they're chasing down the "top" models, usually to use in making digital transfers.

But I'll play with you, its always fun to talk VCRs, and they have a typical lifespan at least triple the durability of the average DVD recorder:

JVCs are always good to launch a hotly debated VCR thread. They made some of the best VCRs, in terms of video quality, which could simultaneously be some of the worst in terms of reliability and tape destruction. Your new love the 7600 is a perfect example: you were lucky and got a good one, other owners would make your hair turn blue and fall out at the roots with their 7600 horror stories. Classic JVC SVHS with DigiPure TBC/DNR are very much a heaven or hell proposition, and its a coin toss which experience any potential owner will have. (Strangely, the "budget" JVCs like 3900 and 5900 are much more reliable: definitely worth seeking out).

The only really notable Panasonic is the AG1980 and its twin the AG5710. These are the only Panasonics with a TBC/DNR system comparable to the JVC DigiPure feature. The implementation is different enough to make owning both a Panasonic 1980 and a JVC DigiPure a worthwhile investment for those with huge tape libraries: each brand has different playback strengths. The drawback with the AG1980 is rapid decay of the electronics with age. Mechanically they are extremely durable and repairable, the opposite of JVC, but their electronic boards utilize dozens of discrete capacitors which tend to fail and are hard to diagnose (making complete replacement of all caps the only practical, if costly, solution). When fully recapped, a Panasonic AG1980 can blow the doors off nearly any other consumer VCR, but the typical second-hand as-is sample one can find today will not approach that level of performance without an overhaul.

All other Panasonic VCRs can be classified in three broad categories: still functional, decent performance, cheap and durable -OR- troublesome with fatal design flaws that already killed them dead long ago -OR- made after 2001 in which case they're junk not up to par with earlier models. My personal fave of "lesser" Panasonics are the 4500 series, 4600 series, and AG2560.

Mitsubishi made some great VHS and SVHS models, over the course of roughly three generations: pre-1995, 1995-2000, and post-2000. None had TBC or significant DNR. The pre-1995 are prone to age-related breakdowns that can no longer be repaired due to lack of custom parts (rectifiers primarily). The models from 1995-2000 were the peak of functionality and a pleasure to use, but most have hit the scrapyard because of the ridiculously fragile thin nylon loading mechanism which shatters into pieces after four or five years and cannot be repaired. Post-2000 models like the 448 and 748 are the most ruggedly-built VCRs of the period, very durable, with excellent tracking but very mediocre video playback quality.

Sony was all over the place with SVHS, none had TBC/DNR, the better models are highly prone to breakdowns, and no two model years used the same parts so repairs are a lost cause. For awhile there was a huge cult following for a couple of rare-ish Sony SVHS because they delivered truly exceptional record/playback. But the cult died when it was realized they would blow their fussy expensive power supplies repeatedly and become impractical to maintain. Other than a handful of oddly-durable nondescript budget models, Sony VHS is best avoided today.

Toshiba made a couple of VHS models with extravagant DNR features unmatched by other brands, but they are incredibly rare now, and Toshibas in general had a bad rep for durability. Hitachi VCRs could make incredibly good recordings but were average or worse at playback. Sharp made a lot of models, too many to single out any individuals: most made throughout the 1990s were excellent with great tracking and good durability (today they're a fantastic bargain as "spare" VCRs).

Anyone now needing the best possible playback of their VHS and SVHS for digital conversion should skip all the above listed and head straight for the far more recent and much more reliable DVHS models made by Mitsubishi and JVC. These VCRs are all less than ten years old and were designed to record HDTV signals from compatible cable/satellite decoders via FireWire, to expensive DVHS tapes (as well as make standard VHS and SVHS recordings). They were very pricey machines when new and most hold their value today at $300-$500 depending on condition (many are still new in box or mint). Their high resale value is partly due to a small but thriving DVHS cult, and the fact that they all have a DigiPure TBC/DNR system similar to classic JVC SVHS models housed in a more reliable chassis with more durable tape mechanics. Mitsubishi made only one such model, the HS-HD2000, and it was marvelous. JVC (amazingly) managed to field a dozen or so models, a few even have built-in ATSC tuners. The oldest JVC HM-DH300000 can have overheating problems, later models are preferable.
Edited by CitiBear - 1/2/13 at 4:43pm

That`s weird.
I TOO years ago, bought a JVC S5800U and when I got it was broken!
The seller LIED about it being in working condition.
I bought that from liar in California. It had no Video either.
I had to return it, and naturally, I got screwed out of money.
Since then, I don`t buy JVC vcr`s anymore..
I still have my S6700U, and it WORKS, AND it`s for sale, but for $500, since I had to put ALOT of money into it, to get it fixed. It come with the remote and 2 manuals, 1 S5800U, and 1 S6700U.
Heck, at 1 time I had 2 of these S6700U JVC SVHS vcr`s, like shown in the picture
Greg`s%20Stereo%20system%20012.jpg 102k .jpg file

I almost bought that Aiwa, it had a very good Price Point(~$399 I believe) unlike the Panasonic AG-W1 which was more a commercial VCR and as I recall was close to $2000 USD when new. I did actually rent a AG-W1 for a weekend from a local AV shop(I think $100 for the weekend) and converted over all my PAL VHS tapes to NTSC VHS(this was before DVDRs, or at least before I had one) later I converted those NTSC tapes to DVD. Many years later I reconverted the original tapes using a Aiwa PAL VCR into my Panasonic EH-59 DVDR(set to PAL mode). I then burnt and finalized the PAL DVDs. Finally I played the PAL DVDs in one of my Pioneer DVD players(a 410) which can play a PAL DVD and output as NTSC. I recorded the NTSC output of the Pio back to my EH-59 set to NTSC and finally burnt NTSC DVDs off the EH-59. The final NTSC DVD quality of my last conversions(VHS DVD DVD) was noticeably better than my original VHS VHS DVD conversions where I used the AG-W1.
Part of the reason my original VHS conversions looked worse than my EH-59 conversions is because the original conversions suffered from a IRE mismatch(video was too light) but using my EH-59 I was able to correct this and the final NTSC DVDs were 0 IRE as they should be.

I really don't believe the system converting Aiwa is anything related to the original Panasonic AG-W1, that would be comparing a consumer machine to more a pro machine. Not that the Aiwa wasn't a good consumer machine but it was NOT pro grade. My little 505 Aiwa PAL VCR was a pretty decent machine which I purchase new from a NY grey market photo shop.
Edited by jjeff - 12/21/12 at 2:43pm

I haven't used the Aiwa converting VCRs but when both were available new the Panasonic was many times the cost of the Aiwa(although by that time the Panasonic was on it's last legs of being available new). Comparing the two isn't really fair, one being commercial and the other consumer but it other than build quality it's possible the newer Aiwa may actually have a better more current converting technology. I don't know this for a fact but generally things like that get better with each generation while build quality gets less.
Like I said I almost purchased the Aiwa but would have not been able to afford the Panasonic when it was new. I did see a great price for a AG-W1 several years ago(on Craigslist I think) for something like $100, I almost bought it but I hesitated and it sold. Probably for the best, I have too many antique VCRs the way it is, I probably don't need another one on the shelf......although the AG-W1 was a beautiful machine thats for sure

Still use a Mitsubishi HS-U748 from time to time for a few VHS only titles. Fun to use, if anything else.

People that record with PC's are recording in HD/5.1.
People that record in HD/5.1 don't care too much about burning to DVD (and not at all to VCR) -- it's either BD-R or HDD farms.

I have 2 of those I used them to increase the inputs from 1 to 4 on my TVs that only had one composite input and also sharpen commercial VHS tapes before copying them to blank tapes. I'd still be using them for DVDRs but they lack S-video inputs(composite only) and other than with VCRs I don't use composite any more. I would still like to fine one of those, mainly to darken the input to my international EH-59(which is looking for a 0 IRE input but N. American devices output a +7.5 IRE. Have one of those I wouldn't mind one of those but I'd rather get one of the much smaller models that Citibear occasionally mentions which I've seen closer to $200 at NY camera shops, that one also has color correction options. I think?? the TBC 1000 is the more commercial rack mount model?

You mean those places that Citibear says are run by guys who look like John Lennon on the 'Hey Jude' album cover?  

Nah TBC1000 is a small prosumer TBC, not one of those big rack mounted things.. Its about 200 x 200 x 60mm high (roughly) so certainly managable in the home enviroment. The $180-$240 TBC your are probably thinking of is the CTB100/AVT8710 and its other equivalant re-badges.

Sima CT-2 and CT200 are not TBC's. They are not TBC's and are not the same as CTB100/AVT8710 although they are made by the same people

The Sima CT-2/CT200 is the equivelant to the Cypress CCR9
http://www.cypconverters.com.au/video-processors/ccr-9.html

Or the CCR9 is slightly newer i am not sure.

Sima CT2/CT200 are long gone and pull crazy prices these days.

The only other brand new TBC's in realistic price ranges for most people are the TV One 1T-TBC which is also made by Cypress and is much the same as CTB100/AVT8710 but in a better case and theres the Kramer FC400
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/21/12 at 7:52pm

Canopus ADVC100 is a capture device which converts the video to DV format and is transfered via firewire to PC. Its not a TBC or a macrovision remover. Actually the 100 you can adjust something on it to remove macrovision but not on the current 110 model??. Its not a supported feature anyway. I dont think you can get the 100 new anymore.

Really the Canopus and Sima devices are totally different things. All those Sima/Cypress devices are just basic filters for removing copy protection. For the price people ask for the Simas you are either better off getting the Cypress CCR9 or the Copiall DPX7000 (think i got the number right) if thats all you want is a cheap filter box with s-video. Or better still get the Cypress CTB100 or AVT-8710 which are actual TBC's at the bottom end of the scale and then up from that you have the even better quality Data Video TBC1000. You may find that you need a TBC1000 and a CTP/AVT-8710

Since you have gone and bought good quality VCR’s I would not just use a cheap CP removal box but it depends on what your tapes are? old, worn and damaged home recorded stuff? or good condition commerical tapes?

Dont be fooled into thinking the Sima stuff is fantasic stuff and better than the Cypress stuff as its an 'American brand' and seems to get mentioned a lot on all the video forums. Other countries had the same stuff but it either went under the Cypress name or another name, I have some Cypress and Sima stuff and they are absoloutly identical, except for labels/minor cosmetics and packaging. Cypress is the OEM for many of the 'American brands'

Some other things you may want to consider are the Sima SCC color correctors and their Cypress equivalents. Its not pro gear but it does a reasonable job of altering things. The sharpness controls do not give great adjustment but they were designed like that to prevent you from over sharpening the video according to the manual.

Sima SCC-2 is the same as Cypress/CYP CCR-8 (i have both)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sima-SCC-2-2-Video-Color-Correctors-Rack-mountable-/200867607543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec4a473f7
Thats had rack mounts fitted

Only place i found that has CCR-8
http://www.normwandler.de/product_info.php?info=p11_Multisystem-Color-Corrector-CCR-8.html - should be still current, they had stock as of middle of this year

Both handle PAL/NTSC

Then theres the older more basic Sima SCC color corrector which is NTSC ONLY
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIMA-SCC-Color-Corrector-Pro-Series-/271126132249?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f20607619

Outside USA there was 2 versions of this one made by Cypress

http://www.converters.tv/products/ntsc_to_ntsc/55.html - this one is NTSC only and the same as the ebay Sima one above - should be still current, they had stock as of middle of this year


The CCR-7 which was the same as the Sima being NTSC only

And then there was another CCR-7 which was PAL only (it may have had 'P' on the end of the part number i am not sure). The difference was that the NTSC verion had a tint control and the PAL version had a fade control instead. I have not been able to find one of these yet but i am not really looking anyway as the CCR8 does everything the CCR7 does, although i have seen them on old ebay UK listings and in google cache etc. In UK they went by another name. Not Cypress or Sima.
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/22/12 at 8:38pm

Wow....lot of good info

My six-head Toshiba M781 with DNR (a M782 clone sold by Video Only in 1996) was a real workhorse that I used heavily between 1996-2005 and again in 2007 during my large dubbing project.

That Toshiba M781, and my Sony SLV555UC (1990), are my all-time favorite VCRs of the twenty or so I owned beginning in 1986.

The Sony 555 spent a lot of time in the shop until the extended service contract expired. The Sony's power supply failed in 1996. I kept the Sony in it's original box until around 2008 when I gave up on finding a good power supply for it.

The DynaMorphous Metal Head feature was more a marketing gimmick than anything else: don't tumble for the hype and "white papers" that were circulating thru the consumer video press of the era. The only practical advantage of DM heads today is that DM is much much harder to wear out in normal use: unless the VCR was really abused, it is rare for the heads to be in bad shape if they're made of DM material.

The illusion of "higher performance" or "better PQ" with Panasonic DynaMorphous Metal VCRs was more due to the advanced (for the time) video processing circuits they included along with the DM heads. When brand new and functioning absolutely flawlessly, Panasonic VCRs with the DynaMorphous Metal heads and their related video circuits would play back with demonstrably better color quality and (to a lesser extent) improved detail. But (and its a BIG "but"), this only applied if the VCR was tracking at 110% of spec: absolutely, utterly perfect. In the real world, this was seldom the case, and the first wave of Dynamorphous Panasonics were perversely afflicted with atrocious tracking ability. The lousy tracking performance triggered constant errors in the DynaMorphous color circuits, resulting in a signature Panasonic playback fault known as "color shimmer." This was especially obvious in large areas of red: they would flicker like a rapid candle flame if tracking was the tiniest bit off center (which it always was). Instead of a huge video improvement, most buyers of Panasonic Dyna VCRs saw a steep decline.

So, I wouldn't go to any extremes to acquire an old Panasonic VCR with the DynaMorphous Metal heads: their playback today is often worse than the "lesser" models in a given year's lineup. Each year, Panasonic would offer two mid-range VCRs that were identical aside from the more expensive model having the DynaMorphous system: I would opt for the non-DM model today. It took a remarkably long time for Panasonic to fine-tune the interaction between tracking errors and the DynaMorphous color circuits: it doesn't work reliably in anything but the semi-pro AG1970, AG1980, AG5710 and AG2560 vcrs. Beware of Panasonic's bad habit of recycling model numbers during later years: the 45xx and 46xx models of the mid-1990s are not the same as the ones sold in the early 2000s. After 1999, Panasonic dumped all its consumer VCR production to a junk factory and quality went downhill fast.

Regarding FF/REW speed: this should be a very minor consideration unless you are planning to center your AV system around VHS. Playback quality is much more important, although speedy FF/REW is certainly convenient. The fastest winders ever were the late-model MGA (Mitsubishi) vcrs: they could FF/REW a T120 in about 40 seconds flat, but offer mediocre playback quality (aside from the phenomenal HS-HD2000U DVHS, which is one of the best VCRs ever sold). The best compromise between playback quality and FF/REW speed is a late-model JVC.
Edited by CitiBear - 12/31/12 at 1:06pm

Mitsubishi HS-Ux48 series (ca. 2003-2004).....last of the breed. Decent playback and reliability, and most importantly, many of the machines you find weren't used very much because folks soon upgraded to DvD players, DVRs, and DVD recorders. Like the condition of collector car's body becomes a paramount consideration, the lack of original wear-and-tear is critical in buying used VCRs.

I remember buying my first 748 new in 2003 at a Milwaukee B&M A/V place (Flanners). It seemed so flimsy compared to the ca. 1998 model I had....and no job/shuttle on the remote or even the front of the unit. I asked the guy if he had a "better" model, and he prickled only a little when he told me that was Mitsu's top of the line S-VHS. Of course, I never ever used the S-VHS part, so could have save 50 bucks and gotten the 448, since except for S-VHS capability, both units were pretty much identical.

Got two nearly NIB JVCs in the closet. They tend to be tetchier with tracking older/thinner tapes than the Mitsus, though they're both lower-end models (a 3912 and a 5902). One or both of them offered the jog/shuttle I so missed with the x48 Mitsu (though in the end I lived a full, rich, rewarding life without it). Subjectively, I'm willing to say they offer slightly sharper PQ, at least when they're tracking the tape correctly and kind of a nicer, "thunky" feeling to the mechanism than the Mitsubishis. But the Mitsus will plow through just about any off-spec or damaged tape. One time I had a commercial tape whose hi-fi stereo tracks just would not play. The channels kept fading in and out, making you kind of sea sick. I went into my Mitsu 748's setup menus and cut it back to the linear mono track. Played clean and stable.

I have to say, though, that I shoved a lot of T-160 tapes that had been recorded on a different machine through one of the JVCs, and it mostly handled them fine, the occasional "VIDEO CALIBRATION" message across the screen notwithstanding. I have a couple of late-model Sharps and Toshibas that I've never really played with.

Anyway, if you're still in the market for a VCR right now, the fine points of 20-year-old Machine A vs 20-year old Machine B are probalby moot. Many old machines have just seized up from lack of use, or the belts have failed or the grease has dried up. VHS playback is living on borrowed time. Just get a fairly new machine that tracks decently. No matter what machine you get, the picture is never going to look pretty on a modern HDTV. Probably sticking to an LCD with a smaller screen size (32" or 37" and under) is your best bet for SD VHS material.