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THE Tape VCR Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 91
Thread Starter 
Whatever happened to Moxi, PrimeTV, and Slingbox?
post #62 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Yeah, I don't understand. DVRs are the new thing. I can totally understand why people like DVRs. It's convenient to time record and there's no loss in picture quality. But what if you want to keep what you record? With removable media being dead, there's barely any way to do that. What if I want to record and keep a World Series game or something? That's not something I can just buy.
You buy a TiVo then use its network transfer capability to send the recordings to your PC where you use Video ReDo to edit out the commercials and save the recording as an .m2ts file (native BD format). Then you store it on your portable HDD's (many people consider them to be removable media) or, better yet, your network storage server where it can be streamed throughout your house to inexpensive media players and/or you burn it to BD-R for archival storage. Been doing this for four years now -- everything is in original quality HD/5.1.

And who says optical media is dead?
SD DVD Recorders are dead, but optical media will live on for quite some time.
post #63 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

You buy a TiVo then use its network transfer capability to send the recordings to your PC where you use Video ReDo to edit out the commercials and save the recording as an .m2ts file (native BD format). Then you store it on your portable HDD's (many people consider them to be removable media) or, better yet, your network storage server where it can be streamed throughout your house to inexpensive media players and/or you burn it to BD-R for archival storage. Been doing this for four years now -- everything is in original quality HD/5.1.
And who says optical media is dead?
SD DVD Recorders are dead, but optical media will live on for quite some time.

Interesting. I didn't know that. All I hear about are DVRs where the cable company sends you a STB with a DVR built in. You record onto its hard drive. I didn't know there are ways to transfer the videos to a PC.

And yes, optical media is dead. Blu-ray is dead because most people today stream. Within the next few years, both DVD and Blu-ray will die and everything will need to be streamed or downloaded. Despite its infancy, Blu-ray is just barely hanging on but it's very close to obsolesence.
post #64 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Whatever happened to Moxi, PrimeTV, and Slingbox?

Moxi went to a whole house system. Slingbox is still around, but is really a delivery solution, not a recording system. Not familiar with PrimeTV.
post #65 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Interesting. I didn't know that. All I hear about are DVRs where the cable company sends you a STB with a DVR built in. You record onto its hard drive. I didn't know there are ways to transfer the videos to a PC.

Cable DVRs don't have that capability. Only TiVo.

You can't get the files off a cable DVR unless you let it output in real time to a recorder, in standard def only, which you then have to rip to a PC. It's easier with DVD-RAM, but still a multi-step process, and still not an HD solution.

TiVo is an actual file transfer. Strip off the .tivo wrapper and it's a video file that is yours to do with as you please.
post #66 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

You buy a TiVo then use its network transfer capability to send the recordings to your PC where you use Video ReDo to edit out the commercials and save the recording as an .m2ts file (native BD format). Then you store it on your portable HDD's (many people consider them to be removable media) or, better yet, your network storage server where it can be streamed throughout your house to inexpensive media players and/or you burn it to BD-R for archival storage. Been doing this for four years now -- everything is in original quality HD/5.1.
And who says optical media is dead?
SD DVD Recorders are dead, but optical media will live on for quite some time.

Or if that's too complicated, you get a Magnavox DVD recorder with a HDD, record your OTA/cable/satellite programming to the HDD (or real-time transfer stuff from your cable/satco DVR - not the fastest system, but that's how we dubbed things back in the VCR days), slice/dice/remove commercials, and burn to a standard-definition DVD. Not high-tech or cutting edge, but if you just want to preserve the content for future viewing and accept that it's not in high-definition, this gets the job done.

Some folks on here have already made the move to server-based storage. Some of us figure that one day in the future we'll be ripping our DVD-Rs to a server.

Thing I need to do is really start my VHS dubbing project in earnest, so I can get rid of the old tapes and then eventually sell off the VCRs to folks who are even further behind in this evolution than me. As more and more VCRs still in daily use break down, I'm wondering if the market price for working, fairly late-model used units will go up. (My parents and brother still do all their TV time shifting with VHS tapes. eek.gif) When I was buying up VCRs ca. 2008, the going rate was about $25....maybe up to $50 or $75 for a desireable, good-condition Mitsubishi S-VHS machine. But I digres....
post #67 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Cable DVRs don't have that capability. Only TiVo.
You can't get the files off a cable DVR unless you let it output in real time to a recorder, in standard def only, which you then have to rip to a PC. It's easier with DVD-RAM, but still a multi-step process, and still not an HD solution.
TiVo is an actual file transfer. Strip off the .tivo wrapper and it's a video file that is yours to do with as you please.

That's the thing. Cable DVRs are the new thing because of convenience. Just select your desired program from the program guide and presto, your show is time recorded!! Many people love that convenience. If you have any external device to record that is not provided by the cable company, you need to program your cable box to turn on and off and then program your external device to a specific time. And what makes matters worse is that most cable companies are "upgrading" their STBs so you cannot program your cable box to turn on and off thereby making it very hard to time record unless you just want to leave your cable box on all day. So, in a way, these cable companies are forcing their subscribers to use their DVR service.

So, that's how DVRs took over. People loved the convenience and cable companies were able to force people into it.
post #68 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

If you have any external device to record that is not provided by the cable company, you need to program your cable box to turn on and off and then program your external device to a specific time.

Or you go to the cable company and say, "I have TiVo, give me a cableCARD." And they give you a card, you pop it into the TiVo, and you have a DVR that works just as well as (if not better than) the cable DVR, and has file transfer capability. If you want to make DVDs or even Blu-rays, you can do it on your computer, or just keep it on the computer and stream it.

You don't have to be tied to a cable DVR.
post #69 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Or you go to the cable company and say, "I have TiVo, give me a cableCARD." And they give you a card, you pop it into the TiVo, and you have a DVR that works just as well as (if not better than) the cable DVR, and has file transfer capability. If you want to make DVDs or even Blu-rays, you can do it on your computer, or just keep it on the computer and stream it.

I could be wrong, but isn't there a monthly fee for TiVo?? During the VHS and DVD recording days, recording was free.
post #70 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

I could be wrong, but isn't there a monthly fee for TiVo?? During the VHS and DVD recording days, recording was free.

You can pay by month (just like a cable DVR), or you can pay a lifetime fee one time and not pay again.

Yes, VHS and DVD recording was free, but they didn't have onscreen guides, they didn't have HD recording (unless you shelled out for a DVHS VCR), you were limited to a few hours (unless the DVD recorder had a hard drive), you had to futz with timers (unless you had TVGOS), you had to make sure the tape was rewound, or the DVD was blank, or sometimes the DVD had a bad burn making a coaster, etc., etc.

To have a DVD recorder that had TVGOS and a hard drive, you had to put up about what a TiVo with lifetime service costs, and you still didn't have HD/5.1 recording.

edit: TiVo also has multiple tuners, so you can record more than one channel (up to four, I think.) To do that with VCRs or DVD recorders, you needed multiple units.
Edited by Tulpa - 1/8/13 at 11:34am
post #71 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

[TiVo/Cable Cards are not an option for everyone]

Not an option for me as my cable co won’t support cable-card. Also my cable co and many other cable cos are starting to send more and more mpeg-4 AVC/H.264 down the pipe.

Then there are all the satellite service subscriber folks with no cable card option.

For all the above folks you need a cable/sat DVR and archive SD to a DVD recorder or get a capture card like the Hauppauge 1212 and archive in full HD.

Folks with Tivo Knowledge:
Does Tivo support mpeg-4 AVC/H.264 send down the cable pipe? Does Tivo support Switched Digital Video (SDV)?
post #72 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Not an option for me as my cable co won’t support cable-card.

You're in Canada, correct? Yeah, Rogers and whatever the other big Canadian cable company aren't bound by the "separable security" mandate for US cable companies. Which kinda bites.
post #73 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

And yes, optical media is dead. Blu-ray is dead because most people today stream. Within the next few years, both DVD and Blu-ray will die and everything will need to be streamed or downloaded.
Even at the height of DVD recorders, the overwhelming primary use of optical media -- then and now -- is on PC's. And that use is large enough to maintain the optical media industry for some time to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

So, that's how DVRs took over. People loved the convenience and cable companies were able to force people into it.
I don't think they have to force anybody. There are tons of people today who are successfully scheduling recordings with their DVR's who couldn't set the clock on their VCR. People paid substantial premiums to put an automatic transmission in their car so they didn't have to deal with a stick shift (a.k.a. manual transmission).

People don't seem to like that advanced tech comes with a fee.
"VCR recording was free"
Well, it's still free, that hasn't changed. But that doesn't mean the new tech should also have to be free.
post #74 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

You can pay by month (just like a cable DVR), or you can pay a lifetime fee one time and not pay again.
Yes, VHS and DVD recording was free, but they didn't have onscreen guides, they didn't have HD recording (unless you shelled out for a DVHS VCR), you were limited to a few hours (unless the DVD recorder had a hard drive), you had to futz with timers (unless you had TVGOS), you had to make sure the tape was rewound, or the DVD was blank, or sometimes the DVD had a bad burn making a coaster, etc., etc.
To have a DVD recorder that had TVGOS and a hard drive, you had to put up about what a TiVo with lifetime service costs, and you still didn't have HD/5.1 recording.
edit: TiVo also has multiple tuners, so you can record more than one channel (up to four, I think.) To do that with VCRs or DVD recorders, you needed multiple units.

Forgive me for the ignorant question as I've never used TiVo before, but if I were to buy a TiVo, does that mean it will replace the cable STB that I currently use?
post #75 of 91
Yes. You put in a cableCARD to get the encrypted channels. It works just like a cable STB or DVR.

You have to give up on-demand and PPV content, though.
post #76 of 91
Well, then that's probably frowned upon by my cable company, which is Time Warner. They want their subscribers to rent their STBs since they make money that way. I guess that explains why they never advertise TiVo, only their DVR service....
post #77 of 91
They HAVE to provide a cableCARD if asked. It should also be on their rate sheet (typically $1-3 per month.)
post #78 of 91
Yeah, I know they HAVE to, but that doesn't mean they WANT to. And whenever I ask the reps at TW for something they HAVE to do, they give me a hard time about it. When I get the chance, I'll talk to one of the reps about it. Something tells me that it will be a fun chat....
post #79 of 91
Next time one gives you a hard time, ask them why it's on their website:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/residential-home/tv/equipment.html


I feel your pain, though. I have TWC, too, and have had the run around once or twice from them.
post #80 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Forgive me for the ignorant question as I've never used TiVo before, but if I were to buy a TiVo, does that mean it will replace the cable STB that I currently use?

Just another question, will the TiVo "share" with the house server "all" the records? Is there any restriction? Thanks.
post #81 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

Just another question, will the TiVo "share" with the house server "all" the records? Is there any restriction? Thanks.
If the CCI bit is set to copy-once, you will not be able to transfer the recording off the TiVo. All OTA broadcasts and local channels on cable are not copy-protected. Some cable companies do not copy-protect any of their cable channels except the premiums. Other cable companies will put copy-protection on everything they are allowed to.
post #82 of 91
Quote:
Other cable companies will put copy-protection on everything they are allowed to.

I have heard of cable companies that have put CP on everything, whether they are allowd to or not. The only exception would be the over the air channels.
post #83 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I have heard of cable companies that have put CP on everything, whether they are allowd to or not. The only exception would be the over the air channels.
It is my understanding that OTA channels are the only exception, per FCC regs. Cable co's are entitled or allowed to copy-protect everything else. I have read that FIOS doesn't copy-protect any of their non-premium cable channels whereas some cable companies in the mid-west protect everything (except the OTA channels). It appears to be more a cable co choice than something demanded by content providers.

One must be careful in discussions of this type to maintain the distinction between "copy-protection" that prevents transfer of the recordings, and encryption (or scrambling) which prevents recording in the first place without STB or cable card.
post #84 of 91
Does this "encryption" prevent DVD recorders from recording as well? I use a DVD recorder (hooked up via composite) to record my programs and have yet to encounter any problems recording. I record from both OTA and cable channels, but never tried premium channels since I don't subscribe to any.
post #85 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

If the CCI bit is set to copy-once, you will not be able to transfer the recording off the TiVo. All OTA broadcasts and local channels on cable are not copy-protected. Some cable companies do not copy-protect any of their cable channels except the premiums. Other cable companies will put copy-protection on everything they are allowed to.

Thanks for the clear answer! I guess in case of Copy-Once a valid option would be to connect the TiVo to an external recorder, press Play and do the "transfer" (not share, sorry) in real time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Does this "encryption" prevent DVD recorders from recording as well? I use a DVD recorder (hooked up via composite) to record my programs and have yet to encounter any problems recording. I record from both OTA and cable channels, but never tried premium channels since I don't subscribe to any.

Unfortunately, YES.
post #86 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Does this "encryption" prevent DVD recorders from recording as well? I use a DVD recorder (hooked up via composite) to record my programs and have yet to encounter any problems recording. I record from both OTA and cable channels, but never tried premium channels since I don't subscribe to any.

Yes, and some recorders are more sensitive than others. All of them will not record when a legit copy protection signal is encountered, but some (like Sonys), will often get tripped up by false signals, or key off of a song on a commercial, ending your recording prematurely.

As to who puts on what copy protection, it really depends on the cable company, or even different areas within the same overall system.
post #87 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

One must be careful in discussions of this type to maintain the distinction between "copy-protection" that prevents transfer of the recordings, and encryption (or scrambling) which prevents recording in the first place without STB or cable card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Does this "encryption" prevent DVD recorders from recording as well? I use a DVD recorder (hooked up via composite) to record my programs and have yet to encounter any problems recording. I record from both OTA and cable channels, but never tried premium channels since I don't subscribe to any.
You put the word encryption in quotes so I am assuming you are specifically referring to digital cable transmission encryption (scrambling) that I enumerated in my post.

So the answer to your question is yes -- at the tuner level. As we all know DVD recorders have only clear QAM tuners and so cannot tune, let alone record, any of the scrambled cable channels. You cite being hooked to composite which means you are recording from the cable STB which takes care of any transmission scrambling. Any copy-protection you may encounter at that point is analog CP such as macro-vision and there are lots of threads on analog CP filters.

A cable co can allow their digital channels to be unencrypted but still apply the CCI bit for copy-once. In that case the DVD recorder can tune and record that channel to the HDD but not burn the title to DVD-R -- you get some little icon in the title list that indicates the title is copy-protected. There have been plenty of posts complaining about that.
post #88 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I have heard of cable companies that have put CP on everything, whether they are allowd to or not. The only exception would be the over the air channels.
It is my understanding that OTA channels are the only exception, per FCC regs. Cable co's are entitled or allowed to copy-protect everything else. I have read that FIOS doesn't copy-protect any of their non-premium cable channels whereas some cable companies in the mid-west protect everything (except the OTA channels). It appears to be more a cable co choice than something demanded by content providers.

One must be careful in discussions of this type to maintain the distinction between "copy-protection" that prevents transfer of the recordings, and encryption (or scrambling) which prevents recording in the first place without STB or cable card.

Yes of course, you are very correct in this. CP and encryption are not the same thing. I was referring to some providers that only CP premium channels like HBO, but others CP everything but what is available over-the-air, so stuff like USA and TNT are copy inhibited. All of the premium channels (again, like HBO) are encrypted (scrambled) but going through their STB decrypts the signal. After decryption, it COULD additionally have CP, or maybe not. So far, I have been able to make DVDs from all of the channels I get, but I wonder how long that will last.
post #89 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

So far, I have been able to make DVDs from all of the channels I get, but I wonder how long that will last.
I have been very fortunate over the past 24 yr to get good OTA from Philly so I've never had to deal with the nonsense of cable. Anything on cable that I want to watch I can get at the library or Netflix.
post #90 of 91
Thread Starter 
I spotted a late 90s Panasonic VCR in the movie V/H/S...with the blue strip on the tape door.
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