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Got my Marquee fired up again - Page 3

post #61 of 121
Thread Starter 
Just finished a set of boards for Tim Martin.







Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #62 of 121
Thread Starter 
Here's a few more for ya Tim...

Took the brightness on the Marquee up a few notches for these.




post #63 of 121
Thread Starter 
Yesterday in the mail I received some much waited for part. Spent a good time of last night working on another version of the neck board mods. I got into this next version to address two particular problems in the stock version that would for the most fix a minor but can be a real problem on the right setup.

One of the problems is usually on a Marquee the Contrast Control is usually set at 50 or anywhere between 50 and 60. Usually and what you'll find on most other CRT projectors, is a contrast operating range between 60 and 70. the reason for the higher contrast setting is mostly because whatever device they use to control the contrast gain, it has a better noise level when at the higher end of the range. On the AD835 in the Marquee, it's a noisy chip and even with my noise lowering techniques, it's still has more noise than what should be found in a video chain for true high end performance.

So I found that to improve on this and the make for an even lower noise video chain, I needed to address the problem in the neck boards. And I did..cool.gif

The other problem is very similar to what they do in audio output circuits when they make sure the signal is properly distributed between the top and bottom outputs of the Push-Pull output section. in most of those audio stages, there are adjustments to make sure the both sections are getting the same signal (but out of phase). On the neck boards, its similar, but the circuit has to Mirror the signal which is very similar to the Push-Pull operation of an audio output stage. The key here for this problem is being able to have a super good Offset Voltage level coming from the pre-drivers. When this is done right, the image is more linear, and with good video linearity, you'll also have great low end to even better black level performance.

I'll post more shots later tonight when the room is more light controlled. I'll also be showing the contrast setting, when all of my previous shots were taking with the contrast set between 50 and 60. It's now up to 80.eek.gif


The following shots were taking about an hour (9am) ago with much light getting into the room. Lowering the noise level also improved on the overall detail in the image. Now my contrast operating range is between 80 and 90.





post #64 of 121
Thread Starter 
Now back to the Panasonic Blu Ray

there were some nice things about the Samsung player, but sharpness was not one of them. So now with the Panasonic back in play, especially on this set of neck boards (very linear), I'm not only getting better sharpness, I'm also getting an ever more linear image (bright throughout and more evenly shows like a picture instead of a video).













post #65 of 121
Thread Starter 
I have a bunch of Pm's on this thread that I'm being asked various questions. one is on sharpness:

"So how's your projector in this test? Can you discern all lines clearly at 1080?"

I'll also answer that question here, and with my very latest changes (linear video) and going back to the Panasonic, I should be able to convey the answer better based on the most recent shots. Again, I don't use Photoshop or any other software for image enhancement or sharpening. I just have one neck of a Marquee mounted on my ceiling..biggrin.gif And so far, there's NOTHING out there that can touch it. And I'll include the digitals in this, and that may explain why none of the pixel guys has posted any shots.

I will be posting a few more, and in about a week, I should be ready to move a few sets. I will then provide a link to a site that will show you how to test your boards to confirm if they are up to this. I'll also be offering two versions of the neck boards. I'll get into that later.

here we go (below shots) full and right out the camera 1920X1080P 60hz:







post #66 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

"So how's your projector in this test? Can you discern all lines clearly at 1080?"

I'll also answer that question here, and with my very latest changes (linear video) and going back to the Panasonic, I should be able to convey the answer better based on the most recent shots.
I'm afraid these photos don't tell much. A much telling photo would be a close-up of the pattern I sent you smile.gif
post #67 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I'm afraid these photos don't tell much. A much telling photo would be a close-up of the pattern I sent you smile.gif

Well, since I'm not able to download that file because it seems to would take a few days to do so. Why don't you post a screenshot of it, to better show what you're taking about. Or better still, like I mentioned in the PM. Use either one of the mentioned test patterns that are standards in the industry for a test like this.

The best and is also the most recognized is the SMPTE test pattern. It is also on the Digital Video Essentials Blu Ray. And don't forget the Sony Blu Rays would also have a good reference pattern for this.

But also keep in mind when dealing with test pattern, they would have to be verified by some group or organization, because not all "resolution" patterns would be suitable for the aspect ratio of 1920X1080P.

And for now, there's a lot of ways of telling if 1920X1080P is being properly resolved even in screenshots, but I'd rather wait for you to post your pattern, and then we go from there..smile.gif
post #68 of 121
Thread Starter 
Now, I've fired up my Marquee and took a shot of the Sony test pattern for sharpness. And so that you'll know I don't know of a better sharpness pattern out there.

Anyway, remember that my Marquee is not warmed. I took the shot after it was on for about 1 minute. My focus takes about 5 minutes to dial in properly after warmup, but I wanted to show you how easy it is for this projector to resolve 1920X1080P. Actually, that resolution is no challenge at all for my video chain..smile.gif

post #69 of 121
I don't know which thickness corresponds to 1080 on that picture. Here's the test I was talking about: (Test2) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1014030/fpd-benchmark-software-for-the-professional-information#post_20673945
And to make it better do a crop of the bottom portion of the pattern where 1080 is. Because on the last photo you pasted you can't really tell where the lines begin to mix.
post #70 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

Now, I've fired up my Marquee and took a shot of the Sony test pattern for sharpness. And so that you'll know I don't know of a better sharpness pattern out there.

Anyway, remember that my Marquee is not warmed. I took the shot after it was on for about 1 minute. My focus takes about 5 minutes to dial in properly after warmup, but I wanted to show you how easy it is for this projector to resolve 1920X1080P. Actually, that resolution is no challenge at all for my video chain..smile.gif



Damn Mike!!!! Having this focus at a contrast setting of 83 on a Marquee is sick!!!!! Congrats on the new mods!!!!
I am a very satisfied user of your previous mods. I have both the VIM mod and the neck boards mod since I believe 2008 on my 8500.
All I can say is that my tubes have over 13,000 hours on them, but my focusis even better than when the tubes had 0 hours due to Mike's mods.
The only issue I had was with low IRE detail, which was crushed after the modded boards were installed.
I do want to let everybody know, however, that Mike did offer to fix that free of charge. However, I had already ceiling mounted the projector and it would be too much of a hassle to lower it and remove the boards.
I am compensating the issue with a gamma correction from the Moome HDMI card and a gamma correction from the Lumagen Radiance XS.
I did not want to change my G2 levels in order to bring out more low level detail to avoid raising the black level floor.
I cannot recommend Mike's mods strongly enough. They are by far the best upgrade I have ever performed on my 8500. Much better focus, sharpness, and ridiculously high bandwidth!!!
post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I don't know which thickness corresponds to 1080 on that picture. Here's the test I was talking about: (Test2) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1014030/fpd-benchmark-software-for-the-professional-information#post_20673945
And to make it better do a crop of the bottom portion of the pattern where 1080 is. Because on the last photo you pasted you can't really tell where the lines begin to mix.

That is a test pattern for motion resolution. A CRT will outperform any other technology display in this test. I have even compared my Marquee 8500 to my Panasonic PZ80 50" plasma display, and the Marquee performs better on this test.
It does not however provide a suitable pattern to post a screenshot of, because the pattern is moving during the small test video clip. If you were to pause the video clip in order to take a screen shot it would only display a specific frame of a moving pattern and based on luck and your bd player's performance it might be sharp or it might be blurry.
post #72 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by napos View Post

That is a test pattern for motion resolution. A CRT will outperform any other technology display in this test.
I know what this test is smile.gif And I happen to look at Sony FW900 now, so I know it so well smile.gif CRT rocks for motion resolution.
Here's a picture of this pattern http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5986/00001mplssnapshot293520.png
Or this http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6567/sharpnessadjust.png (beware, it's 1920x1200)
post #73 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by napos View Post

Damn Mike!!!! Having this focus at a contrast setting of 83 on a Marquee is sick!!!!! Congrats on the new mods!!!!
I am a very satisfied user of your previous mods. I have both the VIM mod and the neck boards mod since I believe 2008 on my 8500.
All I can say is that my tubes have over 13,000 hours on them, but my focusis even better than when the tubes had 0 hours due to Mike's mods.
The only issue I had was with low IRE detail, which was crushed after the modded boards were installed.
I do want to let everybody know, however, that Mike did offer to fix that free of charge. However, I had already ceiling mounted the projector and it would be too much of a hassle to lower it and remove the boards.
I am compensating the issue with a gamma correction from the Moome HDMI card and a gamma correction from the Lumagen Radiance XS.
I did not want to change my G2 levels in order to bring out more low level detail to avoid raising the black level floor.
I cannot recommend Mike's mods strongly enough. They are by far the best upgrade I have ever performed on my 8500. Much better focus, sharpness, and ridiculously high bandwidth!!!

The offer still stands. if at anytime you want to remove your boards, let me know and give me about a week to get a set of boards ready to send you. You pay the shipping and I'll get you a very latest set of modified boards and you then return the set you have back to me.
post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

The offer still stands. if at anytime you want to remove your boards, let me know and give me about a week to get a set of boards ready to send you. You pay the shipping and I'll get you a very latest set of modified boards and you then return the set you have back to me.

Thank you very much Mike!!! I have already sent you a pm regarding this. Once again, this after sales support goes to show what a true professional you are!
And just in case anyone missed my previous post, your mods are AWESOME and the best performance upgrade I have performed on my 10 year old Marquee so far!!!
I truly believe that the modded boards are what is keeping my Marquee in top condition, despite having over 13,000 hours on the tubes!!!
post #75 of 121
Thread Starter 
A few more shots..

These very last changes really put things on another level...




post #76 of 121
This is William chiming in. About a page back, Mike had mentioned the blended MP mod'd Marquee Ultras that I've got. The 6 year development is just about done. We (Mike and I) started in 2007 to create a Marquee 9500 Ultra blend. We started with my old Marquee 9000, and a Marquee 8500 Ultra I bought from Mike. Over the years, the 8500 Ultra was converted to a 9500 Ultra, the 9000 was replaced by a 9500 (which was then upgraded to a 9500 Ultra), and successive sets of Mike's VIM, neckboard, LVPS, HVPS, and various other mods have been added. At times development would occur quickly, then stop over exended periods of time. Sometimes the stoppage occurred because Mike had sickness issues, or other family issues. Other times, stoppage would occur because I was working on first an MS in System Engineering, then a PhD in System Engineering. There was one year (2010) when the MS and PhD programs overlapped. That year I had a full time job, and took 11 graduate engineering courses (8 PhD, and 3 MS). No development occurred in 2010. I graduated with the MS in 2011 May. On January 31 of this year I turned in my PhD dissertation. I defend on March 5th, and will graduate in May. After I had turned in the final version of my scholarly journal publication (describing major aspects of my PhD dissertation research results) in early December, I got back with Mike in late December, and he has provided me with his latest neckboard mods. My 50-2035-03 VIMs had the latest level of MP mods already, and Mike verified this last Thursday. Mike also completed the latest round of LVPS and HVPS mods, removing a lot of noise in the Marquee video chain, at the source.

Late in December, Mike brought over one set of latest mod neckboards, and we installed them in the left projector. He had also attempted to convert 6 of my previously mod'd neckboards to the latest mod level. That did not work so well, and this is where Mike learned about starting with stock neckboards to do his latest level of modding. We did install upgraded neckboards on the green and red CRTs on the right projector. The blue CRT had a stock neckboard. I could easily see the difference in the image between the left (fully modded) projector and the right (partially modded) projector. The left projector had a sharper image with no blooming at higher constrast levels, with exceptional low IRE detail. In 5th Element, the main villan wears a clear plastic skullcap. The skullcap really stands out after the latest neckboard and power supply mods. It was not even visible before the modding process began.

Three weekends ago, I met Mike at a local church (where he was working) and picked up a new set of neckboards for the right projector. Two weekends ago (Sunday, February 10) I spent the afternoon installing them. That night my wife and I watched the live HDTV broadcast of the Grammy Awards. I was using DirecTV as the source, so we were looking at my worst source (the OPPO BDP-83 is the best, the Toshiba HD-XA2 is second, the Samsung OTA tuner is third, with the DirecTV tuner last). Since both projectors now had the complete mod'd video chain for the first time, the images matched. I sat there all night with a big smile on my face, watching that 12 foot wide image. Ever notice how in the morning, if the Sun light is streaming in through the window at a low angle of incidence, you can clearly see the dust particles and other small crap floaing around in the air (due to preferential scattering)? At one point in the broadcast, one of the performers was on a dark stage, and in a bright spotlight. We could clearly see the dust particles and other crap floating in the air around the performer. I have never seen anything like this in the Home Theater on any broadcast or movie before Mike's latest video chain mods. The clarity, brilliance of the colors, and low level IRE detail during that broadcast were unbelievable!!! (Hence the smile on my face.) The blendzone had almost completely disappered in all scenes, and this without the geometry perfectly matching in the blendzone, and with the projectors not properly grayscale calibrated. (The only time during the Grammy Awards broadcast I could see any blendzone at all was when a full screen of a secondary color was broadcast. Then there was a slight mismatch in the secondary color being projected by the left and right projectors, resulting in a very faint "blendzone" showing up.) The next morning, I called Mike up to thank him for the quality of the image I was now able to see in the Home Theater.

Left yet to do is to complete the geometry setup, then redo the grayscale calibrations of both projectors, matching them to each other. Mike has heard me say for a number of years now that once the geometry setup and grayscale calibration were properly completed, the blendzone would completely disappear, without the use of any CMS anywhere in the video chain, or the use of any image intensity softedge curve adjustments in the blendzone.

Anyone in the Northern Virginia area is welcome to stop by and see a demo of the blend in operation, most any time. I am at home almost all the time, preparing for my PhD dissertation defense. It would be well worth the time to travel here. There is no other setup like this in the world. I would like to have a Spring Meet, if I can get the geometry setup and grayscale calibration done to my satisfaction (and I can get my new powered Seaton surround speakers installed, and Mark Seaton out to complete the audio integration of all 9 Seaton speakers in the Home Theater.) Mike is intending to come by in the not-too-distant-future, take some pictures of the blend in action, and post them in this thread. Those images might begin to convey some semblence of what we are seeing on the screen.
Edited by wkosmann - 2/20/13 at 5:18pm
post #77 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkosmann View Post


Late in December, Mike brought over one set of latest mod neckboards, and we installed them in the left projector. He had also attempted to convert 6 of my previously mod'd neckboards to the latest mod level. That did not work so well, and this is where Mike learned about starting with stock neckboards to do his latest level of modding..

I found out what was causing that problem, so now that problem is now solved we'll be able to do most pre-modified boards.

I'll try and come your way one day next week. I have some church work at the same place you met me at, so I'll shoot out your way as well. We get some shots of your setup while there..wink.gif
Edited by mp20748 - 2/25/13 at 5:16pm
post #78 of 121
Thread Starter 
Mission accomplished....and now after almost three months, the For Sale sign is up..smile.gif

APOCALYPTO - Mel Gibson Movie







Edited by mp20748 - 2/25/13 at 4:19pm
post #79 of 121
AWESOME Mike!!! Can't wait to get the boards with the latest mods!!!
post #80 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by napos View Post

AWESOME Mike!!! Can't wait to get the boards with the latest mods!!!

I finished the neck boards today. The VIM was finished last week. I'll check them once more tomorrow, and they are out the door from there.

Here's a few more...





Edited by mp20748 - 2/25/13 at 5:11pm
post #81 of 121
That is great news! Please take your time in testing the boards. Until then I can drool over these AWESOME screenshots!
Please PM me about shipping when you are ready. Once again, I can't thank you enough for this!

Nicholas
post #82 of 121
Hey mike here is a shot of the new neck boards with a stock VIM. NO alteration whatsoever... panny to moome

Thanks Steve
post #83 of 121
Thread Starter 
That's pretty good, especially being your first screen shot. I can see good detail.

Why are you using a stock VIM?

I know a stock VIM could show sharper edges, but it can also show more hash noise, that clouds up the background. The modified VIM is what gives you the "everything in the background is crystal clear" look. Well, it helps, but the real power is the neck boards.

I was watching a part of the Watchman Blu Ray yesterday. I forgot I had it. It gets the award for low end performance. Unbelievable black levels and just plain true dark film look. I'll see if I can capture a few shots later today and post them.
post #84 of 121
Thread Starter 
I've been waiting to get my laptop fixed (hard drive) before taking more shots, because I think its about time I calibrated the colors. Well, the HD that I purchased off Ebay did not work, so it's back to going without the calibration. Also, by me changing boards, and swapping VIM's, it's not going to be easy to maintain a color calibration, so I discovered something kinda neat using my camera.

The following four shots show colors really being off, and the eyeball calibration would not solve the problem:






The following three shots I took using the camera to get the colors better. I simply used a test step pattern on the Blu Ray as reference, and then looked at the screen on my camera to get the best grey scale. Not perfect, but leaps better.





post #85 of 121
Truly amazing screenshots Mike! Can't wait to see what my 8500 will look like with the new mods! If it is anything close to that, it will be awesome!!!
By the way, have you measured the new neck boards' resolution resolving improvement on an 8" Marquee?
post #86 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by napos View Post

Truly amazing screenshots Mike! Can't wait to see what my 8500 will look like with the new mods! If it is anything close to that, it will be awesome!!!
By the way, have you measured the new neck boards' resolution resolving improvement on an 8" Marquee?

I don't have functioning 8" Marquee to verify if the mods can make it resolve 1080P at this same level, but I can tell you without a doubt that it can. I know because I've been able in the past to get my 8500 to nearly resolve 1080P, and that happened way before I was able to reach this level of bandwidth performance. You should be able to resolve 1080P /72hz as well. And be able to do so flawless. But it would require a very tight setup of magnetics and electronics, something I've not really done on mine yet.

I shipped a set of the mods to Italy a little over 17 day ago and they have not yet arrived. I sent them "First Class" and they still show in the tracking as not leaving this country. I've been wondering about that shipment, not knowing or remembering how long it should take to arrive. I usually ship Priority or even Express at times. I have your set ready, and maybe I should not be concerned about the shipping and just get you ready to go out the door.


Anyway, the much higher bandwidth experience makes for an even more natural and film like image. Everything is better, especially the low end and background detail. It's very interesting to be able to look at the paint on walls and see the indentations on almost everything in the scenes.
post #87 of 121
Fantastic!!! I remember how good your 8500 looked with the previous mods, and since the new mods improve on that I will be very pleased with the result!!!
Please don't worry about the cost of shipping. Choose the fastest and safest option and give me the quote they will provide you for it, so that I can credit your PayPal account.
I will also use the same option to return to you my stock boards with your packaging.

Nicholas
post #88 of 121
Thread Starter 
OK, I'll get it ready tonight and get back to you later.
post #89 of 121
Thread Starter 
The first three shots were taking earlier today. You'll be able to see the light coming through the painted sliding door my screen covers.






These were taking a few minute ago




post #90 of 121
Thread Starter 
My 9500 can mop the floor with any digital out there..







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