Got my Marquee fired up again - Page 4

The above post was brought to my attention, so I'll address it here.

I saw it and asked "Why are you using a stock VIM?"

and based on the thread, no reply. However, I did get a call saying that the VIM had a problem with a line on the right side of the image, so the stock VIM was used. The VIM came to me with a problem of the green channel cutting out intermittently and when you wiggle to board. It was previously modified by me some years ago.

I also received a set of neck board to modify. So I modified the neck boards and repaired the VIM. The VIM was used when the boards were picked up from me. We did not put the neck boards in my 9500, only the VIM - it worked flawless in my 9500. And knowing there was a repaired VIM along with the neck boards, I was wondering why the VIM was not also used. There was no charge for the VIM repair.

It's rare that I would charge to repair a problem with any of my mods, and that regardless of when they were purchased. That's the way I've always dome it.

So the problem with the VIM is a line of the left side. The neck boards were reported to be OK. Why that particular shot, I have no idea.

The VIM is coming back to me, and I'll check it again in my 9500, but will likely replace it in hopes of solving a problem I'm not able to see on my setup.

And for those if installing the latest neck boards, do not re-install the aluminum cover (pictured below).

That cover is an interference cover to prevent and isolate the neck boards from radiated noise. It has nothing to do with X-Radiation. X-Radiation protection or isolation is always associated with lead shielding (what you find around the front of the CRT's on a Marquee.

The removal of the shield allows the neck boards to ventilate better. You can also go one further and better seal off the Tube Assembly for better air flow to the neck boards. Not really necessary, but would make for a cooler neck board especially when running Full 1080P, which causes the neck boards to run hotter. Nothing really critical here, because I've been running and testing my 9500 without the tube assembly for years. I do the same with the test unit to make sure the boards can operate at long periods of time without any ventilation. The method for better air flow to the neck boards require only tape over the holes where the wires go into the assembly. I learned this practice a long time ago on the 24/7 Marquees. Those were the ones that usually had the burnt resistors on the neck boards.


Marquee neck Board Interference Shield


Marquee Tube housing

Yes, but it's both VIM and neck boards. The color performance is really related to bandwidth and speed when running at full 1080P. You'll be able to confirm this yourself by using stock boards at that rate. The colors would be there, but they would be muted and you should also notice that the range of colors is limited. You won't see so many reds, greens, blues, etc. The better video chain will allow for better colors and better shades and grades of colors. And that's why it takes a ton of bandwidth to bring out facial complexions and the ability to actually see the makeup they would be wearing in the shots.

1080P when properly resolved is very colorful.

There ya go Kev. I fixed it for you.

Let's call these two shots the Natural vs the UN-natural - or maybe the Film Look vs the Artificial look..





Edited by mp20748 - 3/8/13 at 5:58pm

Well, the missing modified boards that I shipped out of the country, did arrive..

And they have also been installed. Below is an initial report (from email) on what was observed:


"Mike,
at first you know that I found the lines problem. I have the Lumagen CRT 3D box, a little box extender, that works as passtrough between Lumagen and Moome to get impulse to the glasses emitter. So I have connected directly the Lumagen to the Moome card into the Marquee. Corrected lighly the colour drive and very lightly the G2.

Only now I have crazy images: Gladiator, Red, King Kong, Grand Torino. New and never seen details, perfect colourimetry, and sharp sharp images. The last but very old problem are the two or three 1080p vertical lines on the very left edge of the image. It disappears when I change resolution. I remember that many time ago you wrote something about.

Absolutely your mods are superb and the best radical mod ever seen
Thanks"

I had requested a picture of the lines that was previously mentioned to me, to find out in this email to me (above) that the problem is what is also common on a Marquee when running 1080P.
Edited by mp20748 - 3/9/13 at 4:16pm

Yo kev, are you aware of what happens when you apply sharpening to your images - especially when you apply too much?

And BTW, my shots have zero sharpening in the video chain, and they are not touched at all with any software.

don't you wish you could say the same thing..
Edited by mp20748 - 3/10/13 at 3:12pm

More from the same guy previously mentioned. He's running his Marquee at 1080P/75hz..



"Today I found the right output resolution for the Sky HD sat material: the input for this source is 1080i and the o. Res is now 1080p/75.
Fantastic

Before the week is out I'll post some pics pn the AVS"

again, artificial vs natural.

Try once more Kev..

Looking good..

What resolution are you running your 9500LC at, and gives us an explanation of what you're experiencing between the new mods and the version you got a few years ago.

Your shots are much better now. You should load them into a image service (I use imageshack). It will allow the shots to be shown full on the page without needing to click onto them. And you can chsoe the size you want them displayed.

Your shots are great, and they clearly show what I'm also seeing in mine, and you're running at an even higher bandwidth (1080P /72hz) than I am currently running mine. 1080P /72hz for some strange reason, looks better than 60hz, and there's no loss in sharpness..

I have one other set to arrive on the other side of the pond, and the very first person to have got them to post their evaluation.

And while we were at it, we also improved on the Moome card mod. And we are also back to an 03 VIM - had to also bring that up to level..

Check this out..Full 1920X1080 /60hz

The image is softer, but the same distortions still exist. No need for me to do a comparison. This test pattern still shows exactly why your shots look they way they do.

I've been spending the past two weeks trying to understand this problem napos mentioned in this post. he has received and installed the later version boards from me, to report that he's still having this same problem with the new boards. He also says the problem goes away with the stock VIIM board. I've had a problem very similar to this back in maybe 2006 or 2007 that was later corrected, and was with only one other person bringing it to my attention. Since then and before, I've never gotten anything but praise concerning low level performance. Craig Rounds has calibrated quite a few Marquees with my mods, and he always talk about how good the low end performs. He recently calibrated a Marquee back in December of November of last year.

Looking at the problem since getting the boards to napos has had me trying to figure out what could be causing the problem he's having. It was until last nigh when I got a phone call from beerbujit who posted the post below after coming over and seeing my setup:


So beerbjit came over and was blown away by what he saw on my setup. He later got a set of neck boards from me that had the very latest mods. And i had also repaired his VIM that had a short in it. He then installed the boards and reported back (on this thread) that he was operating his Marquee with a stock VIM, because HIS modified VIM when put in the projector caused lines on the left of the picture, and the picture still did not look like what he saw on my setup.

Anyway, I got a call from him yesterday, and from that conversation we both determined that his problem is his CRT's. This is something we knew from the beginning, because his Marquee 8500LC was in my shop way back in 2005 or 2007 or sometime between. At that time I had to replace his LVPS because it had high Filament voltage, and the tubes showed serous low end problem, though they worked and has been in use since then. But they were never able to focus thigh, or show 1800p resolved.

So after our chat last night, beerbujit is on the look-out for a set of tubes list.

Something I may have forget to mention is that the mods will not work properly if the tubes are not up to par. I've posted a thread on my forum that will allow testing for this before purchase. The test will show if the boards are workable for the mods, and will also show if the CRT's have been affected from high filament voltage.

Also, both Craig and I don't use the gamma in the moome card. All of the Screenshots I post do not use the moome cards gamma. It is disabled on my moome card. I don't use it because it does not adjust the gamma in a linear fashion. It ramps up the entire low end and this can effect the TRUE low end performance.

But as beerbjit indicated above: "I really wish the pictures here would show the amount of detail in the blacks"

My setup puts the entire low end on display. And it can do it without any gamma. I was just in the HT verifying the low end using DVE.

so over the past two weeks, napos and i have been shooting PM's back and forth. But the only thing I have not asked him to try is 1080P. The latest version of the mods should make 1080P easy to get resolved on a previously setup Marquee (8500 or 9500 60 or 72hz) but that's only if the tubes are 1080P capable. And if the tubes are not 1080P capable. They would also have low end problems.

The set I sent to Italy, once the boards were installed this is what was reported:

"New and never seen details, perfect colourimetry, and sharp sharp images" and he's running 1080P /72hz - he also claims that both 60hz and 72hz have the same sharpness.

Reported from Raphael:

"The Marquee's picture is now on a completely different level.
The picture quality is so amazing it is hard to believe it is so good. It gave the Marquee inky black blacks,
deeply saturated colors and is razor sharp just like Velvia slide film"

So with only two projectors witt this low end problem, one has bad tubes for sure. The other I'll need to get jury out and await the results. If 1080P 60 or 72hz is not achievable on a previously setup marque after the mods are installed. And if the low end also suffers, there is most likely a problem with weak or defective CRT's. And on any set that has that problem, you would not only be missing low end performance, but the ability to reproduce the entire IRE is not there. Nor would you be able to see a full ramp test pattern. meaning no video linearity.

I can take a break now..
Edited by mp20748 - 3/27/13 at 5:08am

No Gamma -- 02 VIM









Edited by mp20748 - 3/28/13 at 4:18am

Gamma Enabled in my Panasonic Blu Ray -- 02 VIM