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Should I keep my Treble tone setting to "0dB" or bump it a little bit ? - Page 2

post #31 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodnerb View Post

I would adjust the hue just a bit.

I always thought the original Mona Lisa has the flaw of colors being too "warm". I always brighten it up on my PhotoShop program . .it looks much better now.
post #32 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

The whole reason I got into this debate is that I just bought a completely new audio system with new receiver, speakers and subwoofer.

Of course you have to adjust the channel levels depending on their location compared to the listener. But I found myself going one step further, and becoming the Assistant Recording Engineer for each CD, sometime each track, adjust the treble and bass to "correct" the bad sound engineering of the original. Sometimes I found the original was too bright, sometimes not enough treble or bass etc. Then I gave it up and thought, maybe the Artist wanted the soound to be bright, or muddy , or whatever. Now I just sit back and relax, let the recording engineer do all the work. And if I dont like his finished product, I have access to 100,000s of others on mog or spotify anyway.
That's quite a bit different from your previous posts about how true audiophiles don't touch tone controls as a matter of principle. The OP is asking about setting treble +4dB, not about making adjustments on a track by track or disc by disc basis. I gather you are OK with that, yes?
post #33 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

The whole reason I got into this debate is that I just bought a completely new audio system with new receiver, speakers and subwoofer.

Of course you have to adjust the channel levels depending on their location compared to the listener. But I found myself going one step further, and becoming the Assistant Recording Engineer for each CD, sometime each track, adjust the treble and bass to "correct" the bad sound engineering of the original. Sometimes I found the original was too bright, sometimes not enough treble or bass etc. Then I gave it up and thought, maybe the Artist wanted the soound to be bright, or muddy , or whatever. Now I just sit back and relax, let the recording engineer do all the work. And if I dont like his finished product, I have access to 100,000s of others on mog or spotify anyway.

Yes, but the recording engineer wasn't in your room listening to your speakers...but in the long run if you prefer not to eq in some way, then don't. Some of us definitely will. As Gizmologist said, suum quique.
post #34 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Yes, but the recording engineer wasn't in your room listening to your speakers...but in the long run if you prefer not to eq in some way, then don't. Some of us definitely will. As Gizmologist said, suum quique.

This is one $illy thread. biggrin.gif To the OP: just go on and set your treble to + 4 dB and see/hear for yourself. No need to ask anyone, coz as you can see.....
post #35 of 139
Are you saying that there are some rooms that suck up +4 DB of treble and therefor you have to compensate and add 4 DB of treble? He is really trying to change the sound of the recording, not make up for some unusal physical set up in his listening room.
post #36 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Are you saying that there are some rooms that suck up +4 DB of treble and therefor you have to compensate and add 4 DB of treble? He is really trying to change the sound of the recording, not make up for some unusal physical set up in his listening room.

Maybe he's adjusting for his ability to hear those frequencies. Maybe he just likes the sound that way. Personally I don't use a treble control, but if that's all I had I might use it, but I probably wouldn't go as high as +4. YMMV.
post #37 of 139
Are there roving studio- based acoustic police who will enter your home and see where the tone/EQ adjustments are set, compare them to the legal standards and fine you accordingly? Or maybe confiscate your recordings?

Really. All this over a treble and bass control?

Oh LORD let's not even think about the LOUDNESS control!
post #38 of 139
Fine, but let's not pretend that someone who uses the Treble and Bass control is a true audiophile. But if it makes them happy, that's okay.
post #39 of 139
Count me among the people who not only like to have a quality system but who has NOT forgotten the purpose of said system is to enjoy music. I have yet to see any definition of 'audiophile' that says to be considered one, you MUST forgo any use of tone controls on an AVR or preamp.
post #40 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Fine, but let's not pretend that someone who uses the Treble and Bass control is a true audiophile. But if it makes them happy, that's okay.

Do you count among true audiophools that they must have golden ears, use magic cables, can tell the difference among various amps at the same spec, etc? smile.gif

So with your new setup did you get measuring equipment? Let's see your flat response at your LP.
post #41 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Fine, but let's not pretend that someone who uses the Treble and Bass control is a true audiophile. But if it makes them happy, that's okay.

Lets not pretend that someone who thinks tone controls are necessarily bad is a true audiophile. Audio snob is I think a more accurate term.
post #42 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Fine, but let's not pretend that someone who uses the Treble and Bass control is a true audiophile. But if it makes them happy, that's okay.

Well Mitch, I didn't know that not only is there criteria for being a "true audiophile", but you also let us know that you have an "audiophile receiver". I feel like both myself and you need to be educated as to what a "true audiophile" is. Does putting your "audiophile receiver" on your subwoofer make you a "true audiophile"? What other "true audiophile" rules might I be breaking? biggrin.gif
post #43 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodnerb View Post

I would adjust the hue just a bit.
I would use a polarizer to knock out the reflection that the room lights are adding. But then I'd be accused of changing the Mona Lisa.
post #44 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

I am mainly talking about the jokers who change the tone settings with every different audio track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

I found myself going one step further, and becoming the Assistant Recording Engineer for each CD, sometime each track, adjust the treble and bass to "correct" the bad sound engineering of the original.
So the "joker" you were describing was yourself?
post #45 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeJunta View Post

If I may raise one point that hasn't yet been raised.

I find that it takes a certain amount of time for me to adapt to the sound of whatever system I'm listening to. That means that I easily tweak myself into a state of hopeless confusion. This applies to tone controls as much as speaker placement and such. I don't even have the knowledge or skills to do room treatment or correction at this point, so the only thing I'm going on is my own perception of how things sound.

Instead, I find it helpful – once the extremely obvious problems have been sorted out anyway – to just listen to to the system for a while, say a few hours, and only then make any adjustments if there's something that bothers me about it. In other words, resist the temptation of constant tweaking; instead, listen for a good long while between adjustments and make a note of what you changed in case it made things worse and you want to go back.

I guess I shoulda raised, not just called.rolleyes.gif
post #46 of 139
After reading some of these comments, I have actually changed my mind to an extent. Let's say you don't have the greatest stereo equipment or speakers. Maybe they are lacking in bass or treble response. Under those circumstances, you would have no choice but to use the various treble and bass controls.

I have had equipment like that in the past, and would usually tweak the treble and bass 2 db, which distorts the rest of the sound. Fortunately my new audio equipment is high quality enough that that is no longer necessary.
Edited by MitchFlorida - 5/13/13 at 5:29am
post #47 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

We each choose different speakers because we each enjoy a particular characteristic of the speaker including the assembly materials and techniques, the crossover points, etc. Then add in room acoustics and environment (temperature and humdity affect the speakers and the transmission of various frequencies through the air to your ears, your body's own daily changes in 'performance' as well as personal preferences do not allow for any flat 'rules' on the use of tone controls.

That's one way to do it.

I choose speakers based on accuracy in both the frequency and amplitude domain, based on the requirements of the particular application. To me things like materials, and crossover points are relevant only to me as they relate to final performance.
post #48 of 139
I would say set the tone controls to what sounds best.

But if you wanted to take things to the next level, getting a measurement mic and software will tell you accurately what not only what the speaker is doing, but what the room is doing, and give you a much better sense to what the make up is of what you are hearing. If you are having to boost the treble for it to sound right, its quite possible that the room is absorbing more high frequency content than mids and lows. This is typical given the characteristics and nature of high frequencies. If this is the case, a better sound may be derived by either changing the room so less high frequency content is being absorbed or increasing the absorption in the mids and lows to even things out. Once the room is more flat, you may find you dont have to increase the treble for it to sound right.
post #49 of 139
Am I the only audiophile who doesn't like to listen to music with 5 speakers? I think 2 front speakers and a subwoofer is the way to go.
post #50 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Am I the only audiophile who doesn't like to listen to music with 5 speakers? I think 2 front speakers and a subwoofer is the way to go.

No. 2 front speakers and a subwoofer is my set up.
post #51 of 139
It is hard to find a good 2.1 receiver these days. Everything is geared toward 6 or 8 speakers. Soon we will have get 10 or 12 speakers.

Last time I checked, we only have two ears.


It's weird to hear music so that the flute player is sitting BEHIND you.
post #52 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Am I the only audiophile who doesn't like to listen to music with 5 speakers? I think 2 front speakers and a subwoofer is the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

It is hard to find a good 2.1 receiver these days. Everything is geared toward 6 or 8 speakers. Soon we will have get 10 or 12 speakers.

Last time I checked, we only have two ears.


It's weird to hear music so that the flute player is sitting BEHIND you.

If it's recorded in two channel, as is most music that I listen to, then I listen in two channel (with subs on) I do have some recordings in 5 and 7 channel and listen to those as recorded.

If the flute is behind you in a 5 or 7 channel recording then perhaps the recording engineer felt that he wanted to seat you in the band/orchestra.

Most multichannel receivers are just fine in 2 channel mode in any case, just the economies of scale that make those more prevalent...
post #53 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

It is hard to find a good 2.1 receiver these days.

All the audiophiles I know dont use receivers at all.
post #54 of 139
Right, but you have to pay for 7 channels of which you are using only 2. Then they short-change you on the two with 70 watts RMS each and you have wasted the output of the other five unused speakers. I think the surround sound 5.1 and 7.1 is a very succfessful gimmick, but a gimmick none the less. If I am watching a tv show or nightlly news on tv , I need to have 7 channels?
Most serious music sounds like crap with 7 speakers placed all over the place like that

Someone is getting hoodwinked,
post #55 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Last time I checked, we only have two ears.
What does that have to do with number of speakers used? Like saying our eyes are a few inches apart, so no need to have screens any wider.
post #56 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

Right, but you have to pay for 7 channels of which you are using only 2. Then they short-change you on the two with 70 watts RMS each and you have wasted the output of the other five unused speakers. I think the surround sound 5.1 and 7.1 is a very succfessful gimmick, but a gimmick none the less. If I am watching a tv show or nightlly news on tv , I need to have 7 channels?
Most serious music sounds like crap with 7 speakers placed all over the place like that

Someone is getting hoodwinked,

Yes, but you pay less for those 7 channels than you would for two in most cases. If you don't enjoy multi channel sound then don't bother. You watch tv news? Why? You like talking heads? Some tv shows have very nice 5 ch soundtracks. Personally my setup is primarily about movies, but music a strong second and with the remote I can easily go from one to the other. YMMV.

Now, where are your room measurements to show you have a flat response at your LP?
post #57 of 139
I trust my ears, not some microphone and software program to tell me what sounds good.
post #58 of 139
I think one must define what your space is used for. If its audio only, then thats one thing. If its A/V, then thats a different story.

For audio only rooms, I see no benefit in more than 2 channels (plus subs if they are needed) when the recorded material is 2 channel.
post #59 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida View Post

I trust my ears, not some microphone and software program to tell me what sounds good.

Ultimately, yes. But a microphone and software will point out things that are affecting what you hear adversely that using ears alone will not.
post #60 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchFlorida 

Last time I checked, we only have two ears.

Last time I went to the symphony, there were more than two instruments playing on stage.

That number of sources (speakers) should match the number of our ears has nothing to do with what is natural, and everything to do with the way audio technology developed and the early limitations of that technology.

That being said, if you like two channels that's the way you should listen to music. Recurring theme here.
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