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$2500 Budget what would you go with. - Page 3

post #61 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post


Talk to Tom Vodhanel from PSA about the XV30 before you start to take peoples "hypotheticals" on what it can and can't do at 12.5hz compared to other subs. He'll give you an honest answer. Tom was the "V'" in SV Sound before he left so he knows his stuff. Just go over to the Power Sound Audio thread and shoot him a PM.

 

This is what Tom said on the PSA thread a few days ago:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post


The XV30 is essentially a larger, more powerful XV15. The sound quality and extension will be identical or at the least *very* similar. The only real performance difference is the maximum output capabilities. The XV30 will have about 4dB more headroom. Another way of looking at that is a single XV30 in a front corner will perform nearly identical to dual XV15s with one placed in each front corner. So basically, if you want to know how a XV30 "sounds"....just read a XV15 review and factor in the additional output capabilities.
Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 
Below is the measurements taken by Ricci for the XV15 on the Audioholics website:
 

 

This data and Tom's response is why I said the XV30 (if like the XV15) would likely not be able to produce a 12.5hz signal (or one with significant output). It's less "hypothetical" and more from the horses mouth, so to speak.

 

Powersound makes great subs, and both the XV15 and XV30 are great examples of that. However, like all subs, there are design compromises. Extending to the 12.5hz realm and below was one of them. Note that this is by no means sub par performance...most ported subs can't dig as low and loud as the PSA's. Just when compared to the FV15HP, it does not extend as low. But again, that's where I believe the FV15HP separates itself from the rest of the commercial ported subs.

 

post #62 of 106
So at 12.5hz the XV30 would be at 96.3db? and at 20hz they're within 1db of each other right? How much real world content is there at 12hz were it would really make a difference. Probably less then 10% of movies.
Edited by jbrown15 - 12/30/12 at 12:58pm
post #63 of 106
Sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should have gotten dual FV15HPs over dual XS30s, but honestly the amount I saved over the FV15HPs and also factoring in that my room is only 2100cubic/ft and I'm not too concerned about having super high db below 15hz I'm glad I stayed with the XS30s. Of course to each their own. With the subs you're looking at your really can't go wrong with any of them. All of them will more then likely sound great without being able to directly compare them in a head to head testing.
post #64 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So at 12.5hz the XV30 would be at 96.3db? and at 20hz they're within 1db of each other right? How much real world content is there at 12hz were it would really make a difference. Probably less then 10% of movies.
No. The chart indicates that the SPL is in red which means there was too much distortion to make clean output. Look at the left columns for clean output. The 12.5 hz is NA.
post #65 of 106
oh okay, so basically the XV30 doesn't really make anything that registers other then distortion at 12.5hz? Sorry I'm still learning about all of this stuff. In your honest opinion should someone really be concerned if a sub isn't putting up big numbers below 15hz? How much really content is even at that level in movies or music? I know of less then a dozen movies that really have material at that level, unless I'm mistake.
post #66 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

oh okay, so basically the XV30 doesn't really make anything that registers other then distortion at 12.5hz? Sorry I'm still learning about all of this stuff. In your honest opinion should someone really be concerned if a sub isn't putting up big numbers below 15hz? How much really content is even at that level in movies or music? I know of less then a dozen movies that really have material at that level, unless I'm mistake.

Not many films go that low...but Id still love to have a sub that can play that low when their is that sort of content biggrin.gif HTTYD for one biggrin.gif
post #67 of 106
HOLY CRAP dominguez1, I just clicked on your sig to look at your setup. I think you have a bass problem!!! ..lol Yikes that room must almost shake apart at times in movies! biggrin.gif
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

HOLY CRAP dominguez1, I just clicked on your sig to look at your setup. I think you have a bass problem!!! ..lol Yikes that room must almost shake apart at times in movies! biggrin.gif
The system is sweet but I really like that room too. Very nice sir.
post #69 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

HOLY CRAP dominguez1, I just clicked on your sig to look at your setup. I think you have a bass problem!!! ..lol Yikes that room must almost shake apart at times in movies! biggrin.gif

 

I enjoy it. smile.gif I'm flat to at least 5hz (can't measure below that). When you've got reference level playback at very low frequencies, you'll never settle for anything less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


The system is sweet but I really like that room too. Very nice sir.

Thanks dstew! It's not super fancy like some other HT's, but it certainly get's the job done. smile.gif

post #70 of 106
Dominguez set up WAS sweet...till he betrayed his outlaw brothers and went with the FV15HP....

hahah just kidding. That is a nice upgrade! Thinking about selling my quad outlaws to add to my lms 5400 budget (or maybe XS30s)
post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So at 12.5hz the XV30 would be at 96.3db? and at 20hz they're within 1db of each other right? How much real world content is there at 12hz were it would really make a difference. Probably less then 10% of movies.

Look at the chart, it's not putting much out at 20hz nevermind what's below it.
post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

oh okay, so basically the XV30 doesn't really make anything that registers other then distortion at 12.5hz? Sorry I'm still learning about all of this stuff. In your honest opinion should someone really be concerned if a sub isn't putting up big numbers below 15hz? How much really content is even at that level in movies or music? I know of less then a dozen movies that really have material at that level, unless I'm mistake.

That's a individual choice. For some it matters and for some it doesn't. I'm in the middle with my dual Hsu 15Hs. wink.gif
post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Dominguez set up WAS sweet...till he betrayed his outlaw brothers and went with the FV15HP....
hahah just kidding. That is a nice upgrade! Thinking about selling my quad outlaws to add to my lms 5400 budget (or maybe XS30s)

LOL! I did like the look of the Outlaws and that plexiglass top. Much better 'end tables' compared to the FV.

 

LMS? Nice, go big or go home! If you're going the DIY route, have you checked out the Dayton 18 or new Stereo Integrity 18? Many are doing dual-opposed with those drivers. For 1 LMS you could get 4 of those drivers. Another one to throw into the mix is the UXL-18.

 

Commercially wise, I am very intrigued about the XS30. It doesn't appear to have the rolloff like the empire. If that's the case and at its price point, it's a heck of a value. Definitely keeping an eye out for that product...

post #74 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Commercially wise, I am very intrigued about the XS30. It doesn't appear to have the rolloff like the empire. If that's the case and at its price point, it's a heck of a value. Definitely keeping an eye out for that product...

That's where I'm stuck. Right between the FV15HP and the XS30. I just haven't seen enough info for the XS30 compared to the 15HP unless I haven't run across it yet.
post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post


That's where I'm stuck. Right between the FV15HP and the XS30. I just haven't seen enough info for the XS30 compared to the 15HP unless I haven't run across it yet.

You're likely going to need roughly 2 XS30s to equal the output of the FV15HP from 25hz to 12.5hz if I had to guess.

 

The benefit to the XS30 is that it is sealed (no possibility of port noise) and beyond 12.5hz it will have more output if there is no HPF in place. If that is the case, you can just add XS30s to your system to get more output. Granted, not the cheapest route, but the upgrade path is clear if you want a full bandwidth sealed setup.

 

If I had to pick just pick a pair right now, I'd go with the FV15HP. It's proven and a heck of a sub. smile.gif

 

Still looking forward to seeing what the XS30 can do however...

post #76 of 106
By the same token you'd need two FV15HPs to equal one XS30 in the 40 to 120hz range from what I can tell. FV15HP is at 117.7db in that range while the XS30 hits 122.5db A lot of that "slam" comes above 25hz too. Not everything is about having your subs play material at 15hz. But that FV15HP is a sweet sub too.
Edited by jbrown15 - 12/31/12 at 9:50am
post #77 of 106
[quote name="jbrown15" url="/t/1447350/2500-budget-what-would-you-go-with/60#post_22765514
Not everything is about having your subs play material at 15hz.[/quote]

No it's not however it's darn nice to have. I'd sooner have it than not.
YMMV

P.S. if you've felt it you'd want it.
post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

By the same token you'd need two FV15HPs to equal one XS30 in the 40 to 120hz range from what I can tell. FV15HP is at 117.7db in that range while the XS30 hits 122.5db A lot of that "slam" comes above 25hz too. Not everything is about having your subs play material at 15hz. But that FV15HP is a sweet sub too.

Where did you see that the xs30 hits 122.5db?

 

While certainly an impressive number, it's not a meaningful as high output in the lower octaves. The lower octaves are much harder to reproduce at high output. Additionally, if playing at reference level volumes are your goal, all you 'theoretically' need as far as output is 121db in room. Two FV15HPs at 117.7db ground plane should be able to produce the 121db in room (in medium-large sized HT rooms).

 

Again, not discounting the xs30, just sharing some knowledge.

post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post


LMS? Nice, go big or go home! If you're going the DIY route, have you checked out the Dayton 18 or new Stereo Integrity 18? Many are doing dual-opposed with those drivers. For 1 LMS you could get 4 of those drivers. Another one to throw into the mix is the UXL-18.

Quad silverbacks? Gorilla is a maniac, the good kind. How in the world do you feel the need to upgrade from dual passive caps on an XLS5000?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

If I had to pick just pick a pair right now, I'd go with the FV15HP. It's proven and a heck of a sub. smile.gif

+1, lots of good subs out there but you can't go wrong with the FV15HP, it's a great sub.

BTW I have the PSA XS15 from the recent NE GTG sitting here right now and a Rythmik FV15HP. I don't think the smaller PSA is supposed to sound different then the XS30, just less output. It is an incredible value at it's 750 price point. I'm going to be taking some measurements and doing some comparisons soon. Anything in particular you all think I should do? I was thinking basic graphs at 75 or 85db with and without audyssey XT32, then compression sweeps, then listening. I owe Tom and Jim a review.
post #80 of 106
I guess I'll cough up the extra 87 bucks and go for the FV15HP. I'm sure I'll be giddy as all get out. To bad they don't offer a senior citizens discount. tongue.gif I have another 9 days til I can order it.
post #81 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Where did you see that the xs30 hits 122.5db?

While certainly an impressive number, it's not a meaningful as high output in the lower octaves. The lower octaves are much harder to reproduce at high output. Additionally, if playing at reference level volumes are your goal, all you 'theoretically' need as far as output is 121db in room. Two FV15HPs at 117.7db ground plane should be able to produce the 121db in room (in medium-large sized HT rooms).

Again, not discounting the xs30, just sharing some knowledge.

After talking to you on this thread dominguez1 about the FV15HP I emailed Tom and asked him to give me his thoughts on how the two compare. It's in his email that he told me the XS30 can hit 122.5db in that range. I'm not saying you don't believe me but you can ask him yourself too.
post #82 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

I guess I'll cough up the extra 87 bucks and go for the FV15HP. I'm sure I'll be giddy as all get out. To bad they don't offer a senior citizens discount. tongue.gif I have another 9 days til I can order it.

The price difference is more then $87, the PSA sub price includes the cost of shipping. The Rythmik sub you have to pay at least another $100 to have it shipped i believe.
post #83 of 106
Cool. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss some published data somewhere is all.

I'm sure it can hit the 122! Impressive!
post #84 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

[quote name="jbrown15" url="/t/1447350/2500-budget-what-would-you-go-with/60#post_22765514
Not everything is about having your subs play material at 15hz.
No it's not however it's darn nice to have. I'd sooner have it than not.
YMMV
P.S. if you've felt it you'd want it.[/quote]

In room response with dual XS30s in my room is roughly down to 8hz, according to Tom from PSA with a scetch of my room. I'm pretty sure I can "feel" biggrin.gif
And from playing a bunch of movies over the holidays I'd say thats about right.
post #85 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The price difference is more then $87, the PSA sub price includes the cost of shipping. The Rythmik sub you have to pay at least another $100 to have it shipped i believe.

I'm going with the H550PEQ3 amp so it will be $100 less.
post #86 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Cool. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss some published data somewhere is all.
I'm sure it can hit the 122! Impressive!

Yeah like I've said to you before dominguez1, the FV15HP is a great sub and I almost bought dual FV15HPs. But I decided to give dual XS30s a try and so far I'm loving them. I'm still thinking about maybe ordering dual Rythmik F25s next year though.
post #87 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

I'm going with the H550PEQ3 amp so it will be $100 less.

Yeah, so that would be $1174 right? Plus isn't it $125 for shipping?
post #88 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Yeah, so that would be $1174 right? Plus isn't it $125 for shipping?

$1124 + $112 shipping.
post #89 of 106
$1124? I'm on the Rythmik webpage and they show it for $1274 less $100 for the 550watt amp. Am I looking at the wrong place? plus $112 for shipping.
post #90 of 106
The FV15HP is a great sub and I'm sure you'll love it. I just wanted to try out the XS30. Hell it sold out stupid fast. I think PSA sold like 60 subs in less then two weeks.
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