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Complete Noob sitting in my basement stumped on setup

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
So I just finished the basement and setup an area for watching movies. The basement is like 25 by 18

I have

60 inch panasonic st50
2 polk audio monitor 70's
cs2 center
polk monitor 30's for the sides

and some polk in ceiling speakers in the rear.

Subwoffer Oulaw lmf ex

Denon 3212.

I ran auddesy and it sounds crappy. I cant even hear the sub but it is on. It is in max output with both ports open. 3 gain. What gives!!mad.gif Please help im sitting down here scratching my head. i could use some one to walk me through it.
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan34 View Post

So I just finished the basement and setup an area for watching movies. The basement is like 25 by 18
I have
60 inch panasonic st50
2 polk audio monitor 70's
cs2 center
polk monitor 30's for the sides
and some polk in ceiling speakers in the rear.
Subwoffer Oulaw lmf ex
Denon 3212.
I ran auddesy and it sounds crappy. I cant even hear the sub but it is on. It is in max output with both ports open. 3 gain. What gives!!mad.gif Please help im sitting down here scratching my head. i could use some one to walk me through it.

1) Can you list the speaker trims Audyssey has set including sub?

2) Did you switch all speakers to "small" and set crossovers to 80 Hz?

3) Care to share a couple of photos of your room showing speakers setup?
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
post #4 of 13
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan34 View Post


Hi Titan, sorry for not coming back to you, actually I live in a European time zone and it's been too late to do anything, had to go to bed.

Nontheless, I also agree that "batpig's world" is the best source for setting up a Denon with Audyssey on-board. Should you still have questions you may move to the Audyssey thread, there are many knowledgable guys there ready to help, including batpig. smile.gif
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Is there someone I can talk to that would be willing to help me set this up.
post #7 of 13
it is going to sound crappy because there is no back wall and the left side wall is really far away compared to the right wall being close.

if you are seriously not happy with the result of the auto calibration, you could try 'tricking' the computer by moving the microphone either closer to the right wall or further from it.
remember what the auto calibration is trying to do, it looks at the ringing of the room (the wet) and compares it with the dry direct signal.
(yet, perhaps at a master's level, only the wet signal is analyzed)

audyssey has you place the microphone in more than one listening position?
i look at it simply like a puzzle and there should be a way to trick the processor into getting a better final result .. and moving the microphone is going to be the key for that trick.
(yes.. that means trying to pull the microphone back further away into the back area of the room for the front speakers, simply as the last option)
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by anwaypasible View Post

it is going to sound crappy because there is no back wall and the left side wall is really far away compared to the right wall being close.
if you are seriously not happy with the result of the auto calibration, you could try 'tricking' the computer by moving the microphone either closer to the right wall or further from it.
remember what the auto calibration is trying to do, it looks at the ringing of the room (the wet) and compares it with the dry direct signal.
(yet, perhaps at a master's level, only the wet signal is analyzed)
audyssey has you place the microphone in more than one listening position?
i look at it simply like a puzzle and there should be a way to trick the processor into getting a better final result .. and moving the microphone is going to be the key for that trick.
(yes.. that means trying to pull the microphone back further away into the back area of the room for the front speakers, simply as the last option)

If he had a rear wall directly behind his seats, he would have the common acoustic issues that go along with placing the seats along that wall. So, I think just the opposite. The larger space, with walls farther away (that can't cause things like early reflections) should provide a better listening environment.

He might have the sub in the worst position, where the result is little bass with no impact. To the OP... Did you try the crawl test?
Do you have the settings on the sub, as well as the receiver set properly? What crossover number are you using?

From looking at the photo's, the obvious potential problems exist with simple speaker placement.

It looks like the center speaker is placed inside a cabinet on a lower shelf, and also pushed back inside the cabinet. You couldn't hide it any better. At least pull it to the front of the shelf. Better yet, place it on the very top shelf, on top of something that will raise it to just below the TV screen...keeping it to the very front edge of the shelf.

Pull the left and right speakers forward, away from the rear wall, and tow them in towards the seats. Towing them in, among other things, will cut down on early first side wall reflections. Make sure that the speaker wires are correct. Having them out of phase will result in little or no dynamic range...no punch.

This is a nice system, capable of providing a convincable sound experience.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan34 View Post

So I just finished the basement and setup an area for watching movies. The basement is like 25 by 18

I have

60 inch panasonic st50
2 polk audio monitor 70's
cs2 center
polk monitor 30's for the sides

and some Polk in ceiling speakers in the rear.

Subwoofer Oulaw lmf ex

Denon 3212.

I ran Audyssey and it sounds crappy. I cant even hear the sub but it is on. It is in max output with both ports open. 3 gain. What gives!!mad.gif Please help im sitting down here scratching my head. i could use some one to walk me through it.

The source of the crappy sound is probably the crappy room. It is bare.

It seems to be devoid of signficant absorptive material and diffusive surfaces except the floor, and all the floor has is carpeting, which is one of the crappiest absorptive materials there is.

If you sit and listen for a while, you might be able to hear some things that are wrong with the room.

If you walk around the room, you might be able to clap your hands when the room is quiet, and determine if their are any places with high frequency ringing, AKA slap echoes.

The room needs some odd-shaped acoustically obstructive objects to break it up. Some large equipment and media cabinets would help. Maybe a bar or food service counter in the rear. Right now it looks like a wasteland. You might want to look at some of professionally designed listening rooms.











Hope this helps. Google is your friend! ;-)
post #10 of 13
the right wall is only going to help encapsulate pressure lop-sided from the left side.

i had the urge to say something about moving the whole thing sideways to get the two walls even.

if the front speakers can get the audio to touch the floor and the ceiling in the middle of the space between listener and speaker.. then the rear speakers could help fill up the ambience if they were pointed at the same spot.

looking at the size of the speaker, they might have trouble getting soundwaves to spread out enough.
you seriously should try the rear speakers pointed in the middle between listening position and television.

you didnt say if it was only the rear speakers that sounded bad or the front speakers too.
i would imagine the left speaker sounds empty compared to the right side.
and i would imagine the sound is grossly negligent sounding with the two rear speakers pointed at eachother.

if you need more .. try setting the distance of the front speakers to half, if you can do it manually.
and if that doesnt work, try double the distance.

as i said.. it is a game of distance settings and microphone placement to trick the auto calibration into providing something better.
for all we know, one half of the room is 180 degrees of phase different than the other speaker.. quite a load for the chip holding the data.
i would imagine the engineering concept is to prepare the chip for 360 degrees of difference, or 180 degrees of difference, or perhaps less.

but seriously..
one speaker with reflections compared to the other speaker without reflections sounds remarkably dumb without some serious audio engineering going on to make the right wall sound invisible compared to the left side.
and then if you finally got it, you would still realize you need the wall for the 3d effects (different than the front speakers mixing with the rear speakers)

again.. gotta try the surrounds pointed down towards the floor in the middle, that way you get some ambience instead of listening to something that sounds like somebody blowing up a balloon as the audio slides down the strip of wall they are mounted to.

i would probably pull the two front speakers apart and put the right one in the corner, twisted towards the center spot between chairs and tv. (twist the left speaker too)
and i would flip the subwoofer around for the right speaker.
i would also measure to make certain both speakers are the same distance from the spot they are pointed at.
that could really get you a better ballpark ambient fill.. and the first reason is because the right speaker simply isnt pointed at the wall, it is pointed away from it.
that means the whole half of that right wall wont be giving reflections, comparable to the other side.

get the subwoofer out of the corner and close to the little table thing with the center channel and you will probably get less long-term fatigue from the subwoofer sounding like it is 'way over there' as if it is a single side of headphones.


i think adjusting the speakers the way i said will do more than $10,000 worth of sound paneling.. and if you can hold that against me as false, then you are already doing some seriously advanced (think master's) audio engineering principles.


maybe you put the sub in the corner because it helped the output .. or maybe because it helped the low extension.
but get it away from the wall and let audyssey calibrate it's frequency response anyways, you should be back to something similar for output and|or low extension (and if not.. then that auto equalizer is similar to a toy at toy's r us)
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Anway,

About to try some of your suggestions. I will be back after tinkering for awhile. Thanks to all that have provided me with a little education.
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Well I did what anway suggested. Moved speakers and ran aud again. I keep getting an alert saying the left side surround is out of phase. I double checked all the wires and it was correct. So I switched one just to see and it still said out of phase. every time I run Aud that mid left speaker runs the sound check like three times going louder louder and once more. I set all the surrounds to small and 80 hrz. Bumped up the sub from -3.0 db to plus 1. Everything seemed to sound much better. Alot more punch and bass. Definitely dug a little deeper.
post #13 of 13
yeah i was going to say the next choice would be to lower the crossover setting on the surround speakers (setting 'em to large if necessary) to see if it would allow the calibration to pick up on the signal.
it sounds like your receiver has the option to set the speakers to small, and then adjust the actual crossover frequency .. that's a rather nice feature, especially when considering the difference between cone size (like 4 inch compared to 6.5 inch or 8 inch).
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