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High output, multiple driver DIY main recommendations? - Page 6

post #151 of 538
I'd hasten to point out that Dolby must feel that height is the most important after basic 5.1/7.1, since that's all their PLIIz system offers. I'd guess the first movies with a genuine 9.1 mix will have the extra channels be height. Width seems like more of an enhancement than a channel effect anyhow. Audyssey is selling their technology as a superior experience and since Dolby doesn't do wide, of course they say that's the big deal. Maybe they are right. I preferred height having been forced to choose. I'm sure it's seamless and sublime for those who can have it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subyguy View Post

And just for a different pov, imo wides are the most important after the basic 5.1 if your room can handle them. Makes a super wide soundstage that just sucks you into the action. I don't disagree that in your room highs are better than wides but to just say that wides aren't important will mislead many people. In fact audessey states that wides are more important than heights as well. I'm currently running 7.2 surround with wides off my 4311 which is capable of 11.2 with my separate amps but my ceiling isn't high enough in my current theater for highs. The new house we're building has 9' basement ceilings so I will likely go 9.2 or 11.2 there.
post #152 of 538
Dolby, eh? wink.gif

I really wish all the new sound formats/processing didn't use heights as "above the fronts" but as an overhead channel. That would have been much more effective in creating a full sphere of sound, imho.
post #153 of 538
Well, I am jumping between PLIIz and NeoX, each has it's charms. I'm also enjoying 2-channel sound, it still packs a punch. More options - more playtime, that's about it. An 'overhead' channel has to be on the drawing board, gotta be what movie theaters are most interested in. IMO, the surround back channels should have a 'high' option which allows them to work in concert with the front high channels to create an 'overhead matrix' or whatever. The traditional 5.1 layout (or 5.1 plus wides) would take care of the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Dolby, eh? wink.gif
I really wish all the new sound formats/processing didn't use heights as "above the fronts" but as an overhead channel. That would have been much more effective in creating a full sphere of sound, imho.
post #154 of 538
Just plug in a 'matrix' processor to the center and rear center. People have been trying that out for a decade now.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/796992/thunderous-overhead-surround-world-trade-center
post #155 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Dolby, eh? wink.gif
I really wish all the new sound formats/processing didn't use heights as "above the fronts" but as an overhead channel. That would have been much more effective in creating a full sphere of sound, imho.

Damn Scott, Spot on sir, spot on!!!
post #156 of 538
This thread got the old wheels turning. I read back through the manual on my RX V2400 and it has the PLIIx option but calls the front height speakers Presence Speakers. Does anyone know if this is the same thing just different terminology?

I have another pair of 8330's that I was going to use on these channels as I am unable to use them for the rear surrounds to complete a 7.1.

Chris
post #157 of 538
Pretty sure that's some proprietary Yamaha scheme. PLIIz added the height speakers, not PLIIx
post #158 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

This thread got the old wheels turning. I read back through the manual on my RX V2400 and it has the PLIIx option but calls the front height speakers Presence Speakers. Does anyone know if this is the same thing just different terminology?
I have another pair of 8330's that I was going to use on these channels as I am unable to use them for the rear surrounds to complete a 7.1.
Chris

Totally different animal there. I rather like the Yamaha DSP's myself. They use different technology than Dolby, DTS, DSX. They uses reflection data to try and recreate a space. It's pretty cool, actually though most don't like that kind of processing.

Go try it out.
post #159 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Pretty sure that's some proprietary Yamaha scheme. PLIIz added the height speakers, not PLIIx

If I am reading the Dolby site correctly the PLIIx is a different method of processing. http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-pro-logic-iix.html

I don't know if this is saving me money or costing yet. tongue.gif The Presence Speakers can only be run in lieu of the rear surrounds it seems. http://www.avsforum.com/t/325274/yamaha-rx-v2400-dpiix-uses-the-presence-speakers-to-create-a-9-1-surround I read right over that part in the manual in haste. I need to sit back down with it.

I really need to find someone that has properly implemented the height speakers into a 9.1 before I think about making a move. The good thing is, I have time.

Chris
post #160 of 538
The current Aventage Yammies allow 9.1 and have now four presence channels for "11.1" but one needs an extra external amp to power some channels for that.
post #161 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Totally different animal there. I rather like the Yamaha DSP's myself. They use different technology than Dolby, DTS, DSX. They uses reflection data to try and recreate a space. It's pretty cool, actually though most don't like that kind of processing.
Go try it out.

I def will. Thanks for the suggestion Scott. Maybe I can get some time this weekend to experiment.
post #162 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The current Aventage Yammies allow 9.1 and have now four presence channels for "11.1" but one needs an extra external amp to power some channels for that.

I am drooling at the newer models on Yamaha's site right now. I am forming my new want list.

Edit: It seems that the Yamaha receivers are all PLIIx based.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a3020_black_u/?mode=model

Looking at the Dolby site, it seems only Pioneer and Onkyo utilizes the PLIIz.

Sorry to go so far off the beaten path here. Just trying to sort it out.

The Dolby PLIIx, "Dolby Pro Logic IIx extends the original Dolby Digital Pro Logic II technology, which derives 5.1 surround from stereo programming, to derive 6.1- or 7.1-channel surround from both stereo and 5.1-channel content."

The Dolby PLIIz, "By adding front height channels, Dolby Pro Logic IIz creates a 7.1 or 9.1 playback system that enhances the spaciousness of music, movies, and video games, bringing a new dimension to surround sound listening. An additional pair of speakers located above the front left and right speakers enables Dolby Pro Logic IIz to introduce a vertical component to the horizontal soundfield of a conventional 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound system.

I am going to spend some time in the Receivers, AMPs, and Processors section.
Edited by filtor1 - 1/3/13 at 9:15pm
post #163 of 538
We love our yammy. And control the entire rack gear remote using the AV controller app via tablet in the living room.
It's the V867 for it's pre outs for all channels to all the pro amps and for dual hdmi output feeding tv and pj at same time. Has worked out perfect.
Picked up my dad a yammy for his setup to give the same functionality and he can just use his phone.
post #164 of 538
Can anyone tell me what receivers currently on the market allow for height and wide channels? Does the Denon AVR-3312 offer this? Or just the new AVR-4520?
post #165 of 538
Do you mean concurrently, or switchable? That would be a good list to compile. Most receivers that do height and width simultaneously are going to have an 11.1 or 11.2 designation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can anyone tell me what receivers currently on the market allow for height and wide channels? Does the Denon AVR-3312 offer this? Or just the new AVR-4520?
post #166 of 538
The 3312 allows height or wide, but not both at the same time. It, as far as i can tell (and i own one) can only process 7 channels plus an sub channel at any given time. You can however switch between them on the fly if you have all of them wired.m
post #167 of 538
I'm gonna go 'mad scientist' today and see what happens. I need to go scour the local Best Buys for some literal best buys. I'll build out my speaker system to 11 channels by the end of the day. My receiver does 'automatic switching' for wide versus high playback. Then I get to try out every mode. I've been planning to audition music in different surround modes and perhaps start a list of what mode compliments different albums the best, with 2-channel sound serving as the standard reference.
post #168 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can anyone tell me what receivers currently on the market allow for height and wide channels? Does the Denon AVR-3312 offer this? Or just the new AVR-4520?

The 4311 can do both smile.gif
post #169 of 538
Thread Starter 
4311 FTMFW.

So....uhh....anyone else have any ideas/suggestions for others viewing for high output mains?

biggrin.gif
post #170 of 538
The current crop of Onkyo TXNR, both 3010 and 5010 also support full 11.1 audio with DTS:NEO-X and DSX audio. Also Dolby PL2z is supported.

I own the Onkyo TXNR3007 which allows one to hook up a full 11.1 setup but only allows up to 9.1 playback at any given time. I have the same modes but DTS:NEO-X was not out to the home market at the time. Dolby PL2z is usually used but if I wanted to switch to wides I could listen in various DSX modes and toggle between height and wide with a push of a button on the remote. There is also an option (just in DSX mode) to use both heights and wides but I would have to give up my surround rears which I'm not going to do.... ever. Not in this room.
post #171 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

4311 FTMFW.
So....uhh....anyone else have any ideas/suggestions for others viewing for high output mains?
biggrin.gif

dang, I mean there are just too many other options too. I don't have enough space to try all the things I want to try. the Threepi, four pi, BFM's arrays, if I don't sell my 4648's then I still want to try and put some big ole horns on top of them and see how they do. Mains with dual ported 15's just sounds so exciting. Hey, I might even take them down and put the SEOS12's on top this weekend and use the DCX to XO them and see how it sounds. Might be a fun little excercise!
post #172 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

dang, I mean there are just too many other options too. I don't have enough space to try all the things I want to try. the Threepi, four pi, BFM's arrays, if I don't sell my 4648's then I still want to try and put some big ole horns on top of them and see how they do. Mains with dual ported 15's just sounds so exciting. Hey, I might even take them down and put the SEOS12's on top this weekend and use the DCX to XO them and see how it sounds. Might be a fun little excercise!

You really, really, really should try this before selling.
post #173 of 538
I think the comprehensive list of AVR's/PRE's that do some kind of 11.X processing includes:

Denon 4810
Denon 4311
Denon 4520
Marantz 8801
Onkyo 3010
Onkyo 5010
Yamaha Adventage 3000
Yamaha Adventage 3010
Yamaha Adventage 3020

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 1/4/13 at 10:37am
post #174 of 538
hopefully gorilla isn't too unhappy about all this discussion about receivers and technologies for additional channels!
looking at denon has me looking at the marantz av8801 now
post #175 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

hopefully gorilla isn't too unhappy about all this discussion about receivers and technologies for additional channels!
looking at denon has me looking at the marantz av8801 now

Tell me about it...I just got my 4520 for the family room and now I am looking at the 8801 for the HT. It never ends, does it:confused:
post #176 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I think the comprehensive list of AVR's/PRE's that do some kind of full 11.X processing includes:
Denon 4810
Denon 4311
Denon 4520
Marantz 8801
Onkyo 3010
Onkyo 5010
Yamaha Adventage 3000
Yamaha Adventage 3010
Yamaha Adventage 3020
James

The Yamaha Adventage AVR's are 7.1 + presence. Not exactly the same thing as 11.1 in the sense that there are 11 discrete full range channels with panning and such. The Yammy uses the 2 or up to 4 channels of presense to output reflection data stored in the DSP. DTS:NEO-X uses panning effects to create the effect of more channels for smoother pans. DSX also uses fake reflection data extracted from the original signal for it's other channels but not the same way Yamaha does.
post #177 of 538
^ no it really doesn't (end) and sometimes it's just plain stupid.

I'm perfectly content with my 4311 and I'm actually very disappointed with the 4520's inability to play 2 channel PCM to the zones (like the 4311 can) yet I'm STILL trying to conjure up workarounds so I can pay more money to get the 4520...even though it really offers nothing over the 4311 for me other than Neo X processing.

How's that for stupidity?

James
post #178 of 538
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

You really, really, really should try this before selling.

X2!

As far as receivers go - I don't feel any need to upgrade at this point as I don't use 60% of my current 4311 features. I'll probably wire up for heights soon enough, but I'm out of extra speakers for now. eek.gif

I am thinking of either picking up a couple more EP4000's to power the rest of my speakers OR going to a higher powered 5 channel amp something like the Emotiva XPR-5. I'm not worried about externally powering rear surrounds or heights.

Pros for the EP4000s x 3: (825 plus fan mods)
-Much lower cost
-More power

Pros for the XPR-5:(1700 on sale)
Single enclosure, 1 amp, less space
Looks nicer
No fan mods needed
12V trigger built in, no relays required

That's a big price difference! eek.gif
post #179 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The Yamaha Adventage AVR's are 7.1 + presence. Not exactly the same thing as 11.1 in the sense that there are 11 discrete full range channels with panning and such. The Yammy uses the 2 or up to 4 channels of presense to output reflection data stored in the DSP. DTS:NEO-X uses panning effects to create the effect of more channels for smoother pans. DSX also uses fake reflection data extracted from the original signal for it's other channels but not the same way Yamaha does.

I didn't realize there was ANY discrete 9/11 channel material. Even the scant few 9/11 Neo titles are simply matrixing existing content as far as I've read...cept it's embedded on the disc- there is no new discrete data. All the methodologies vary of course.

It was included because it offers 11 channels of sound, nothing more.


James
post #180 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I didn't realize there was ANY discrete 9/11 channel material. Even the scant few 9/11 Neo titles are simply matrixing existing content as far as I've read...cept it's embedded on the disc- there is no new discrete data. All the methodologies vary of course.
It was included because it offers 11 channels of sound, nothing more.
James

There is no >7.1 discrete content. I should have said, "independent channels" instead.
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