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High output, multiple driver DIY main recommendations? - Page 14

post #391 of 538
I like the trend that I'm seeing on these last couple pages. smile.gif I knew I wasn't crazy! tongue.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

What are the amplifier requirements at 20Hz for these speakers...say...yours or Gorilla's?
Is the woofer staying within linear Xmax  at those frequencies and wattages?

As Bill F said, we're simply talking about another subwoofer existing in the same box as the speaker.

So, wouldn't another caveat be that the amplifier requirements for full range are similar to what we need in subs: 300w, 1000w, etc.?

If they can extend 20 Hz with authority, then they're like the two channel Hi Fi stereo speakers, and they're either not sensitive or they're humongous!

I'd add another caveat that we should be able to measure the change so we're not going backwards more than forwards?


Okay... these are two totally different systems. Beast and Gorilla have two systems that are vented bookshelf designs. They just happen to get awesome response down low cuz they had the balls to test them full range instead of shoving in the "manditory" crossover @ or above Fb. Their systems will probably not take a full onslaugt of crazy bass movies at or near reference level. I encourage them to give it a shot but be careful doing so. Start -10dB and work their way up maybe. The amplifer requirements are not unlike any other speaker. You look at the sensitivity in the passband you're interested in. Being that theirs are resonant designs they shouldn't be very sensitive ~20hz. I forgot where their speakers were tuned to.

Mine will also be not so sensitive down low and I understand this. I'm using JBL 2226's which are not subwoofers. They are more like woofers/midbass. I am cheating though and using them sealed and clustered in sets of four raising their sensitivity in that way. Be sealed they will be MUCH more sensitive down around 20hz than theirs as they are tuned higher and 'should' be crossed in the normal sense. In that situation theirs would be +20dB down (or more) ~20hz and even moreso down in the 10hz range. I may have a 40dB advantage ~10hz simply because I went sealed. However, being that this drivers are limited in throw, even with four of them together won't produce a ton of SPL down low. I think it's still important to let them contribute to that overall output into the room, full range. I designed my system to have a flat excursion profile so they won't 'hit Xmax'. That will never be an issue even with an excess of 1,000w in each driver. Still the deep bass won't be as couch shaking as a lot of the awesome subs around here can do. What it WILL be able to do is crush your skull with midbass. biggrin.gif
post #392 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

It'd be interesting to see response graphs of 1 sub with 60-80 hz crossover, versus 1 sub / and speakers run Large. 
And then 2+ subs with crossover and run Large.

I'm wondering if some of the fullness is due to excessive bass at certain frequencies, and just how much smoothing one gets. 

For instance, Gedde's method doesn't call for 4-5 "subs" at the front of the room, but that's what you get if you have 1+ subs at front, plus 3 full range capable speakers.

Eyle, I agree with you on all fronts man.

I'll play devil's advocate just for the sake of debate.

Maybe this fuller sound is attributed to the track information. The information below 120hz being played through the LCR and surrounds is different than the .1 channel. As least in movies.
post #393 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post


Eyle, I agree with you on all fronts man.

I'll play devil's advocate just for the sake of debate.

Maybe this fuller sound is attributed to the track information. The information below 120hz being played through the LCR and surrounds is different than the .1 channel. As least in movies.

That's true, the LFE track is up to 120Hz...forgot about that.

 

Some people are doing this mainly for music, so I guess it doesn't apply there...unless concert BluRays use an LFE track? I have no idea.

post #394 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Eyle, I agree with you on all fronts man.

I'll play devil's advocate just for the sake of debate.

Maybe this fuller sound is attributed to the track information. The information below 120hz being played through the LCR and surrounds is different than the .1 channel. As least in movies.

One doesn't necessarily get 120hz LFE playback. This is completely dependant on the AVR/pre-pro. Some do not give you a choice at all and filter out 80hz and above. Some let you choose and people still pick 80hz or it is set by default.
post #395 of 538
I knew I was not crazy to build the Xploders. Big mains - capable of full music range reproduction - are big fun biggrin.gif If I did not have these already, I know I'd joining you guys in building these SEOS mains.

xploded.jpg
post #396 of 538
No you were not. smile.gif

Those cones look so much better blank with out the logo. Nice work.
post #397 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

For instance, Gedde's method doesn't call for 4-5 "subs" at the front of the room, but that's what you get if you have 1+ subs at front, plus 3 full range capable speakers.

Geddes does run the mains full range with no high pass though; depending on the main's output, chances are very good that they will contribute to the overall smoothing effects.
post #398 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I knew I was not crazy to build the Xploders. Big mains - capable of full music range reproduction - are big fun biggrin.gif If I did not have these already, I know I'd joining you guys in building these SEOS mains.

xploded.jpg

Thank you SO MUCH for removing the Xplod logo from your creation! Even though you had tested them thoroughly and reported nice results, my cerebral cortex simply would not let me give these things a fair shake -- your eraser job makes them look like new speakers to me! biggrin.gif
post #399 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Geddes does run the mains full range with no high pass though; depending on the main's output, chances are very good that they will contribute to the overall smoothing effects.
Ah ok.. hadnt heard the LCR were full range. Thanks!
post #400 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Ah ok.. hadnt heard the LCR were full range. Thanks!

You bet.

Gotta love the weather in your 'hood today and tomorrow! Highs of -10 to -15 with wind chills of -50...Nice! I used to work in Bismarck & Minot monthly for about 3 years in the late 90's and have to say I don't miss the weather one bit; although I still get to experience some nasty stuff in Dickinson and the High Line of MT. The company I do most of my work for is looking at 8 new sites in the 'Oil Patch' (with 2 in Minot), so I may get the opportunity to have fun over there again (the money would be nice but I'm kind of hoping it doesn't go through). smile.gif
post #401 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

That's true, the LFE track is up to 120Hz...forgot about that.

Some people are doing this mainly for music, so I guess it doesn't apply there...unless concert BluRays use an LFE track? I have no idea.

Agreed on music front. No idea about LFE in concert Blurays. IMO, anything other than "true to source" for music playback would be annoying...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Ah ok.. hadnt heard the LCR were full range. Thanks!

Of course one would want to re-measure after changing their crossover setting.
post #402 of 538
Ha, yeah, record lows. Then again, last year weirdly reached 60s in January...another record.

After the Bondo stink I made in the basement yesterday, I'm banished to the garage for the rest of my SEOS build. wink.gif But too cold to heat up enough to paint. Either I do crossovers for a few days, or beg a friend for the use of a heated garage!
post #403 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post


If they can extend 20 Hz with authority, then they're like the two channel Hi Fi stereo speakers, and they're either not sensitive or they're humongous!


Yes indeed
post #404 of 538
Thread Starter 
Finished crossover modifications - check
Completed/wrapped grills - check
Cut wood and assembled stands for Left and right - check













post #405 of 538
The grills add a nice finished touch. Looks real clean.
post #406 of 538
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

The grills add a nice finished touch. Looks real clean.

Thank you. With all the grills on the front of the room is almost too dark. heh.
post #407 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I seem to have much better luck thoroughly covering the filler/compound when using a black latex base and smooth roller first. Last night I did the bottoms in Duratex and after two medium coats I could still see specs of white when you look up close. Never had that issue when laying the flat black down first.

Oh, and using less Duratex is a bonus too. biggrin.gif

having just finished the fusions i know exactly what you mean with covering the filler. i think i may just git the filler areas with some black spray before i duratex the tempests
post #408 of 538
Those grills are great Andrew, I like the black hole front stage look.

How high are the stands, about 8"?
post #409 of 538
primer gentlemen, primer biggrin.gif
post #410 of 538
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

primer gentlemen, primer biggrin.gif

All day, every day. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

having just finished the fusions i know exactly what you mean with covering the filler. i think i may just git the filler areas with some black spray before i duratex the tempests

That would for sure be the easiest and quickest way to take care of those areas. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Those grills are great Andrew, I like the black hole front stage look.

How high are the stands, about 8"?

Thanks Matt! I need to break out my regular camera and take some better pics, the grills really do look pretty cool. The stands are 7" tall. When combined with the 'stands' in the floor they put them right at ear level.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 2/3/13 at 5:42am
post #411 of 538
Thread Starter 
A couple more - borrowed a camera for these pics:

Nude




Griills


All


post #412 of 538
Nice shots Andrew. I am realizing quickly how Busch my finish is biggrin.gif. I got so anxious to get these complete today and get a listen that I botched the finish...no biggie, I can sand and put another coat on, I jsut couldn't wait to hear em. These are really very good speakers, and my testing area/equip doesn't do em' justice. I am only running 200w to each and can't get the damn left and right more than 5 feet apart with me sitting about 8 feet away. I've gotta mess with the room a bit, but there's only so much I can do until the house is done. Until then, I have to be happy with the little space I can use in my dad's basement.
post #413 of 538
Looks fabulous and I am stunned by the extension. Well played, fracking awesome.

Do you have the center tilted up at all?

Did your system take too much power out of the grid in NewOrleans tonight?
post #414 of 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


Did your system take too much power out of the grid in NewOrleans tonight?

If it did, he should have cranked it one more time. Freaking Niners. frown.gif
post #415 of 538
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

If it did, he should have cranked it one more time. Freaking Niners. frown.gif

Ha, that was interesting for sure. Never expected the game to be that close after how the first half went.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Nice shots Andrew. I am realizing quickly how Busch my finish is biggrin.gif. I got so anxious to get these complete today and get a listen that I botched the finish...no biggie, I can sand and put another coat on, I jsut couldn't wait to hear em. These are really very good speakers, and my testing area/equip doesn't do em' justice. I am only running 200w to each and can't get the damn left and right more than 5 feet apart with me sitting about 8 feet away. I've gotta mess with the room a bit, but there's only so much I can do until the house is done. Until then, I have to be happy with the little space I can use in my dad's basement.

Thanks Jake. What type of content have you played with them so far? Played anything with decent midbass yet? smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Looks fabulous and I am stunned by the extension. Well played, fracking awesome.

Do you have the center tilted up at all?

Did your system take too much power out of the grid in NewOrleans tonight?

Thanks Dave! The extension is much better than I would have guessed for a high sensitivity design. I've still got to re-measure now that I've updated the crossovers as well.

I've got a small wedge for the center that will tilt it up, but I'm going to finish/paint it when I do the stands tonight or tomorrow night. cool.gif

The stands are about ready for final sanding and then paint now. cool.gif
post #416 of 538
Rilla, How would you describe the sound of the seos? I really want to do a TD12m/Seos build, but am wondering how these would match up with My Axioms; which lean towards the brighter side of the spectrum. I will be utilizing Axioms for height, wide, and surround while using these for mains and center.
post #417 of 538
You guys running full range brought back some memories I had when I first calibrated my JBL's. This was my center JBL 3622N at my center seat or main LP.



Here is how it measured on small with an 80hz XO



Here were the subs with an 80hz XO



Here they were together running small, 80hz Crossover, with subs



Then I tried to measure them ful range with no subs and I got this!



I said to myself what the hell do I need a sub for and then ran some movies comparing the two and it was no contest, subs remained but the graphs looked similar and I don't know why.
Then I added dual DTS-10's which replaced the 8 sealed subs and this was their response

post #418 of 538
post #419 of 538
Thread Starter 
I had a chance to rerun Audyssey tonight after the crossovers were updated. Guys they are sounding AWESOME! I played a bit with placement using the omnimic as a guide to reduce nulls and peaks as much as feasible. I listened to a few of my test tracks and they sound by far the best I've owned so far. Incredible clarity and dynamics overall, can't wait to listen more this weekend.

Also got a few coats on my speaker stands as well - they will be installed tomorrow night. I also made a small wedge to tilt the center up.

post #420 of 538
MK,

what's that low row of woofers in the picture? are those an open baffle mount?
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