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CES 2013 - Page 8  

post #211 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Let's say I buy all of that.... We're still pretty niche-y and future-y....
The need for this on a 55-inch 1080p OLED is stretching it.

Absolutely. But for 110" located in typical living room this could be quite different. Curved panoramic computer monitor is obvious benefit. In fact this 55" LED could be better used as a testbed in the computer monitor scenario. Essentially this shows OLED has bright and curvy future biggrin.gif.
post #212 of 412
Quote:
Marketing & manufacturing vaporware aside I think the curved display is marking something which may become significant and pointing to a radically new display paradigm. I call it the best future innovation shown at the CES 2013. This is also the way for OLED since it uses its inherent advantage.

Why curved is important? Look at the emerging new viewing scenarios which aim for covering larger part of visual field than the present 30 deg. Japanese 8K is targeting at least 60 deg. 4K displays show advantage when watched from < 2.5PH. Look at professionals and hardcore gamers surrounded by 3 or even 6 HD monitors in two rows. All these scenarios are banging into the limitations of flat displays since the viewing distance difference between the center of the screen and and edge areas becomes significant. This is not a problem of the display viewing angle, this is a problem of preservation of the viewing distance. Wall sized 4K displays (like those 110") would definitely benefit from the curvature (and rather modest is required). Wide desktop monitors could cover significant range of visual field with seamless equivalent the presently used separated monitors and that would be honey for the eyes. Thus, the curved idea has rather straight benefits in fact biggrin.gif.

Thanks, nice post. Now I understand why a curved panel makes sense (lame jokes aside) and *might work* for a better viewing experience (kind of "mini Imax"?)

In this video a Samsung rep, explains that this curved OLED panel is just a concept of what can be achieved with this technology (near future?) and that it will not be for sale this year, but indeed it does look promissing (IMHO).
http://ces.cnet.com/1606-34451_1-50138608.html
post #213 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post

Thanks, nice post. Now I understand why a curved panel makes sense (lame jokes aside) and *might work* for a better viewing experience (kind of "mini Imax"?)

Indeed, Imax viewing experience is a good metaphore here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post

In this video a Samsung rep, explains that this curved OLED panel is just a concept of what can be achieved with this technology (near future?) and that it will not be for sale this year, but indeed it does look promissing (IMHO).http://ces.cnet.com/1606-34451_1-50138608.html

The whole OLED stuff is uncertain due to colossal manufacturing problems which results in nonsense prices for 2K, not even talking about 4K and sizes above 55". But curving is potential
huge strategic advantage over the LCD. As far as I can see LCD can not be made curved, at least not using the current manufacturing technology.
post #214 of 412
I have a 55 LED and cant imagine a curve to it would do anything.I could see a curve in maybe a 60 and bigger giving the Imax effect but 55 is too small for it to have any positive effect except to make screen look smaller
post #215 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

I have a 55 LED and cant imagine a curve to it would do anything.I could see a curve in maybe a 60 and bigger giving the Imax effect but 55 is too small for it to have any positive effect except to make screen look smaller

Treat this 55" OLED just as a proof of concept curvy can be done while with the LCD it can't be (maybe???). I can easily imagine a 32:9 curved computer monitor instead of using two side-by side.
post #216 of 412
Off-axis watching must be lots of fun with a curved TV smile.gif
post #217 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Marketing & manufacturing vaporware aside I think the curved display is marking something which may become significant and pointing to a radically new display paradigm. I call it the best future innovation shown at the CES 2013. This is also the way for OLED since it uses its inherent advantage.
Why curved is important? Look at the emerging new viewing scenarios which aim for covering larger part of visual field than the present 30 deg. Japanese 8K is targeting at least 60 deg. 4K displays show advantage when watched from < 2.5PH. Look at professionals and hardcore gamers surrounded by 3 or even 6 HD monitors in two rows. All these scenarios are banging into the limitations of flat displays since the viewing distance difference between the center of the screen and and edge areas becomes significant. This is not a problem of the display viewing angle, this is a problem of preservation of the viewing distance. Wall sized 4K displays (like those 110") would definitely benefit from the curvature (and rather modest is required). Wide desktop monitors could cover significant range of visual field with seamless equivalent the presently used separated monitors and that would be honey for the eyes. Thus, the curved idea has rather straight benefits in fact biggrin.gif.

Help me to understand this a little better. First, yes, I certainly see this as a computer style monitor, take that off the table.

And yes, I get that this was to pave the way for whatever concept comes next.

But for movies/tv?

I don't see this as not applying distortion.

When I stare straight ahead out the front of my car (as I type this---j/k), the objects toward the L/R periphery are moving at ever increasing oblique angles. If I see a film shot out the front of a car, displayed on a flat panel, this is fairly preserved. The image comes in, and hits a *flat sensor* or *flat film*, and then that image is thrown back to a flat surface.

However if you take that same scene (via flat sensor) and wrap that partially around you, you now have things that would have optically moved obliquely, suddenly artificially moving that same oblique angle but drawn closer to you making it seem as if the screen was a tad bigger and the object was moving more sideways.

I've seen this effect even on films shot with Imax cameras but on overly curved screens. It's a headache in the making. I look specifically for theaters with minimal curving as a result.

Or better: Take a simpler static example of an extreme closeup of a face. Make it a poster. Laying flat against a wall, it will have each eye drawn to look straight ahead (give or take). Wrapped around you, the eyes will appear to suddenly start to stare inward to each other (in proportion to the curve).

I don't see a way for this to *not* produce distortive viewing if not shot specifically with cameras meant for that particular bend.
Edited by tgm1024 - 1/9/13 at 7:20am
post #218 of 412
Rogo, have you been able to get a hint on any pricing for any of the 110 inch models? I read one report that the Wesinghouse will be $300,000. I'm thinking (praying) that's a typo.
post #219 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post

Rogo, have you been able to get a hint on any pricing for any of the 110 inch models? I read one report that the Wesinghouse will be $300,000. I'm thinking (praying) that's a typo.

It was a typo, it should have been '2 for $300,000'. smile.gif
post #220 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It was a typo, it should have been '2 for $300,000'. smile.gif
No it was for one. But they forgot to mention free shipping.
post #221 of 412
Anyone that's got that kind of money well as may double down and pick up one of these bad boys for just south of 700.

http://www.cseed.tv/design/movie.html
post #222 of 412
A curved panel might solve some of the problems with 3D with no glasses, just tossing out some speculation as a target.
post #223 of 412
I can't find any coverage of the LG LED-LCD models. Do you suppose they even brought them to the show? I want to see the stuff I can actually afford.
post #224 of 412
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I can't find any coverage of the LG LED-LCD models. Do you suppose they even brought them to the show? I want to see the stuff I can actually afford.


http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/01/07/ces-2013-day-one-lg-press-event
post #225 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post


Indeed, Imax viewing experience is a good metaphore here.
The whole OLED stuff is uncertain due to colossal manufacturing problems which results in nonsense prices for 2K, not even talking about 4K and sizes above 55". But curving is potential
huge strategic advantage over the LCD. As far as I can see LCD can not be made curved, at least not using the current manufacturing technology.

We all realize they are having massive manufacturing issues with these sets, but the current yield i wouldnt think would result in the cost of one successful unit costing them anywhere from $8-10 grand. You gotta beleive the pricing structure is all supply and demand.

I honestly thought the days of TV's costing as much as cars were long behind us. This is beyond ridiculous.
post #226 of 412

Thanks greenland. But I should have been clearer, sorry: I want to *see* the things. A walk-around, or set of pictures per model, etc.
post #227 of 412
Thread Starter 
LG's EA9800 curved 3D OLED eyes-on @ CES 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSfXzkRWdME
post #228 of 412
pre 2013 Mitsubishi curved OLED stuff rolleyes.gif




Created with GIMP
http://www.oled-info.com/mitsubishi-completed-installation-curved-diamond-vision-oled-narita-airpot



http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1317904163

I also found a 2009 curved Shinoda Plasma smile.gif


Edited by 8mile13 - 1/12/13 at 8:13am
post #229 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck 
As far as I can see LCD can not be made curved, at least not using the current manufacturing technology.

What about the Ostendo CRVD 43'' curved monitor with LED backlit display?

http://technorati.com/technology/it/article/6500-dollars-for-ostendos-43-inch/


http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1434



AUO curved LCd panels
http://www.pocket-lint.com/auo
Edited by 8mile13 - 1/9/13 at 12:11pm
post #230 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

What about the Ostendo CRVD 43'' curved monitor with LED backlit display?

This is not LCD monitor, it looks like some kind of projection type. Ostendo does not mention it anymroe on its Web site.
post #231 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck 

This is not LCD monitor, it looks like some kind of projection type. Ostendo does not mention it anymroe on its Web site.
Right. I edited my post. found AUO curved LCd panels.
post #232 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Help me to understand this a little better. First, yes, I certainly see this as a computer style monitor, take that off the table.
And yes, I get that this was to pave the way for whatever concept comes next.
But for movies/tv?
I don't see this as not applying distortion.
When I stare straight ahead out the front of my car (as I type this---j/k), the objects toward the L/R periphery are moving at ever increasing oblique angles. If I see a film shot out the front of a car, displayed on a flat panel, this is fairly preserved. The image comes in, and hits a *flat sensor* or *flat film*, and then that image is thrown back to a flat surface.
However if you take that same scene (via flat sensor) and wrap that partially around you, you now have things that would have optically moved obliquely, suddenly artificially moving that same oblique angle but drawn closer to you making it seem as if the screen was a tad bigger and the object was moving more sideways.
I've seen this effect even on films shot with Imax cameras but on overly curved screens. It's a headache in the making. I look specifically for theaters with minimal curving as a result.
Or better: Take a simpler static example of an extreme closeup of a face. Make it a poster. Laying flat against a wall, it will have each eye drawn to look straight ahead (give or take). Wrapped around you, the eyes will appear to suddenly start to stare inward to each other (in proportion to the curve).
I don't see a way for this to *not* produce distortive viewing if not shot specifically with cameras meant for that particular bend.

Indeed, curvature have to be dosed properly. But if you go to big viewing field curved is natural. Take as as an extreme example a 48:9 computer monitor as equivalent to 3 x 16:9. Flat it would be crazy, curved it would be fine. For movies I can see gentle curvature making more natural impact at large viewing angle (say viewing distance 2PH and movie material in the 21:9 format. My quick back-of the envelope calculation shows that for the 2PH viewing the edge of the 16:9 display would have to 0.3PH closer than the center to attain equal viewing distance. This is not an excessive curvature.
Edited by irkuck - 1/9/13 at 12:30pm
post #233 of 412
tgm1024:

How about a look at the 84" 4K model. At the end of the clip, the camera does a bit of a walkaround to show depth.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwk9rs_20-000-4k-tv-lg-84lm9600-ces-2013-unbox-therapy-extras_tech
post #234 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Indeed, curvature have to be dosed properly. But if you go to big viewing field curved is natural. Take as as an extreme example a 48:9 computer monitor as equivalent to 3 x 16:9. Flat it would be crazy, curved it would be fine. For movies I can see gentle curvature making more natural impact at large viewing angle (say viewing distance 2PH and movie material in the 21:9 format. My quick back-of the envelope calculation shows that for the 2PH viewing the edge of the 16:9 display would have to 0.3PH closer than the center to attain equal viewing distance. This is not an excessive curvature.

Ok, perhaps it is just a matter of dosages, but I'm not so sure, because I still suspect the equal viewing distance isn't the bottom line if the image is distorted to achieve it, and it would need to: for every little bit you gain you only get there by losing.

(Maybe.)

If you're right that it isn't excessive, I'll have to approach the discussion this way: I'll put into quotes something that a verb doesn't exist for:

For an enormously wide screen, in order to "make it curve enough to mitigate it's otherwise too-wide-when-flat width effect", you'd have to introduce proportionate distortion. In other words, there might not be an equal balance to be struck anywhere----every amount you curve, mucks the image.

This would be solved of course with a matching bow to the image sensor, or some equivalent lens magic maybe, but I'm not sure. Then the close up to the face example I gave earlier would be fine with the eyes gently facing each other more. I'm fairly sure this couldn't be done in software: the information coming in on angle holds information you can't replace.
Edited by tgm1024 - 1/9/13 at 5:39pm
post #235 of 412
Or to put it another way, (for tv/movie content still), the distance to the screen is only a win if the image itself was meant to be drawn that way.

See why I'm skeptical of it?
post #236 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

tgm1024:
How about a look at the 84" 4K model. At the end of the clip, the camera does a bit of a walkaround to show depth.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwk9rs_20-000-4k-tv-lg-84lm9600-ces-2013-unbox-therapy-extras_tech

Yeah, but too many dots. I want 1080p. So does my bank account. Anything like the 7400, etc. around?

That TV seems pretty ergo'd up though. Nice. I so hope they solved their ridiculous flash-lighting problem of 2012 though! Nothing like having a TV that can display magnificent blacks so long as it isn't trying to display magnificent blacks.
Edited by tgm1024 - 1/9/13 at 5:41pm
post #237 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Yeah, but too many dots. I want 1080p.

After you buy it, I'll come over with a magic marker and get rid of the excess dots. biggrin.gif
post #238 of 412
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Yeah, but too many dots. I want 1080p. So does my bank account. Anything like the 7400, etc. around?

That TV seems pretty ergo'd up though. Nice. I so hope they solved their ridiculous flash-lighting problem of 2012 though! Nothing like having a TV that can display magnificent blacks so long as it isn't trying to display magnificent blacks.

LG has gone down the Google TV route with many of their models. If you wish to avoid getting trapped into using that software which is very unpopular, you might want to take a look at the Panasonic of LED/LCD lineup which has models up to 65inches.
post #239 of 412
post #240 of 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post

Rogo, have you been able to get a hint on any pricing for any of the 110 inch models? I read one report that the Wesinghouse will be $300,000. I'm thinking (praying) that's a typo.

It should go without saying that $300,000 is not what we'd call the price of a "product" per se. That's basically a one-off, like the trade-show Sharps from a few years back. It's funny because Samsung is showing a 110", pretending it's a product, getting irritated with me when I tell the guy next to me that it's a not a product, and then just today.... I said, "But if someone wanted one for a lobby, I'm sure they could order one for around $300,000."

This was before I read the Engadget thing. Irony much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It was a typo, it should have been '2 for $300,000'. smile.gif

What's interesting is that Hisense seemed somewhat motivated to actually offer theirs as a real product. As in sub $100K by a lot real. I was trying to get someone to commit to $39,999 but I didn't get very far. smile.gif
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