CES 2013 - Page 9  

So what are everyones thoughts on Sonys new TVs with this triluminos tech? It seems that it's a bit different from the triluminos tech from the XBR8 in that it utilizes QD Visions Colour IQ technology:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130107007150/en/QD-Vision-Launches-Color-IQ%E2%84%A2-World%E2%80%99s-High

According to the article it can be utilized for anything from TVs to mobiles, and going by the fact that Sony has prototype laptop displays using this tech at CES, I guess we might at least see it on laptops/tablets one day and maybe even phones.

Anyone here have a chance to actually see these TV sets for themselves at CES?

Yeah, would be interesting to know what is the factory price in China. The rest is then the Westinghouse fat guys salaries and perks . However, even for the 300 grands this is limited edition on product. Oligarchs, billionaires, sheikhs and the likes will be attracted to it since it is not too cheap . For normal mortals it would be nice to read a PQ report of it from the distance of 2PH and especially if the viewing angle is OK.

Update 1: This review od HiSense 110" LCD is better than nothing: 4K image slideshow looked more vivid than real-life.

Update 2: Trying to gather more info about Hisense
I bumped into this news release:

On December 26th 2012, Hisense began construction on the world’s largest R&D base in Laoshan District, Qingdao.

This base will focus on Hisense R&D multimedia industry technology, covering an area of 430 acres, with tens of thousands of R&D employees, and be a future technological hub for technology, information, and research. This R&D base will build a solid foundation for Hisense’s development over the next 30 years as the base is designed to be the world's most advanced and innovative research and development center. After completion, it will also become a famous ecological mountain park here in Laoshan District, Qingdao.

World's biggest R&D with tens of thousands . Now they have 110" UHD ready, next will be houses built of LCD walls .
Edited by irkuck - 1/10/13 at 2:53am

I believe you are right if the screen curvature is rather large. For moderate curvature I do not see it as a problem, there are in fact cinemas in which the screen is slightly curved. In any case this is relevant only to wide angle viewing at 2PH distance and even bit less, even in cinema not many people select this distance.

It’s basically a quantum dot film that goes between the backlight and LCD panel that allows them to get very pure red, green, and blue light from blue LEDs rather than phosphor coated “white” LEDs, or requiring RGB LEDs, giving them a much wider gamut. (Or perhaps their solution is to create their own “white LEDs” rather than using a film between the backlight and the panel)

Nanosys have been showing demos of similar tech for couple of years, but it seems more relevant now, as we move to 4K displays and beyond the BT.709 gamut.

http://youtu.be/xKfrSDMrMMU

Color IQ in new Sony panels is one of the most exciting developments at this CES, because it's an actual product that will go on sale this year, not a prototype. With this quantum dot film, at least the colors that LCDs generate should be perfect now. If only they fixed contrast and motion reproduction to same extent, we wouldn't need OLEDs.

It's not very exciting. Do the colors look better? Maybe a bit. Will they come out of the box with proper, calibrated color? I doubt it big time.

I mean, sure, better is better. But this is subtle stuff and mostly it's marketing over substance. "We have this thing, we are Sony, spend more for it."

It's exciting to me and other people. The colors will look better. I'm glad quantum dots are finding their way into TVs, albeit through a back door, but still.

So you think LCD viewing angles are satisfactory? Yup, I'll go down with the Plasma ship in such a display world.

Viewing angles are more then satisfactory,unless one is unfortunate to sit at such extreme off axis where it just doesn't look right even if one is watching on a OLED or Plasma..

^That is not universally true, soz. Even this 2012 Samsung 32" model purchased for a family member degrades noticeably, both vertically and horizontally, in comparison to the 3-year-old Kuro in the living room. File under less than satisfactory and "don't piss on me and tell me it's raining."

I think that point is up for debate. Some LCD's have passable/adequate off angle viewing.

No.

Most 32" and 40" samsung come with a SMVA panel which are not know for viewing angle.

Mid range or high end model with SPVA panels have acceptable viewing angles.

This was a higher end smart tv 32" model (>$500), though I can't be sure of the panel type (I believe it can be gleamed from the serial #).

is sharp showing any signs of life?

any new products from them at ces?

They announced their whole 2013 line, and talked a lot about IGZO. They also showcased their 32" 4K IGZO monitor
Here's one of a myriad of articles on the topic

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34435_1-57562862/at-ces-sharp-explains-benefits-of-its-igzo-display-tech/

"Satisfactory" is subjective, so that doesn't tell anyone anything. What is satisfactory to you probably isn't for me.

There isn't a single LCD display I've seen, old or new, from any manufacturer, that doesn't start to wash out as soon as I start moving off the sweet spot. Yes, some people may find they are still "satisfied"
but for me it's not satisfactory at all - not enough to make for a reference technology for sure.

Well that's disappointing. They need more than a slight improvement. Sounds like we are still going to be less than 30,000:1 once calibrated. ("9.5G" Pioneer)

I wonder what the response time of their new red phosphor is like. They still have "phosphor lag" issues on the current range.
This is the kind of reporting that I hate. If it was only a slight improvement over last year's model, then it's nowhere close to OLED black level.
32" panels are generally not the same as large LCD panels. And there are many different types of panels in use. (Samsung typically have poor viewing angles)

And I'll never understand why someone wants to buy a high-end set and then not sit on-axis to watch it.
H-IPS with an A-TW Polarizer has excellent viewing angles:



It depends entirely on the type of panel used, the size, room lighting conditions (LCDs tend to show viewing angle issues more in the dark) etc.

In fact most IPS panels are that good, the problem is that a lot of cheaper ones don't use an A-TW Polarizer - but you would only see that in the dark.

^Sure, if you're only one person. Seating arrangements don't always allow for everyone to be at a 90-degree angle from the panel, that's just reality.

And Samsung panels permeate more than just their own brand (though I am not so sure they provide Sony panels any longer).

Also, those ZT60 black levels could go deeper with the aforementioned continued software tweaks. The first-look reviews/measurements can't come soon enough.

I'm glad to learn you really like the colors on something you haven't seen. I've seen it, the improvements are marginal.

As for your excitement that something called "quantum dots" are in the TVs, I don't know what to even make of that. Are you also excited about quad core?

What about charmed quarks?

The ZT60 has a small change to panel construction, which goes to the heart of its better light rejecting. But either way, it seems like a decent upgrade.

I'm sure Kuro fans will reject it out of hand as they always do.

Yes, plenty. "4K Lite", using Quattron panels, a small incremental price bump... Looks very good. Real 4K, a big incremental price bump.... Looks very very good. Real 4K with ICC, astronomically priced... Looks even more amazing than last year, but fuhgedaboudit.

My problem with Sharp is this: I want an IGZO Sharp in a huge size, and that's not happening in 2013. Still, if one wanted a 70" or bigger LCD this year, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Sharp.

^Kuro fan here who hasn't begun to dismiss the ZT out of hand, but thanks for the prejudgement.

And I don't think as a Kuro owner that it's asking too much to expect something to come along after 4 years that at least matches in the technical area at which one's current panel excels.

You have to realize that Panasonic actually cares about gradation, and it's a lot harder to achieve such low black levels with the driving method they use.

You've seen these on, presumably, bright show floor? Need I add anything? Quantum dot film tunes RGB colors to their correct, narrow wavelengths, it's just science. The colors will be better as a result. Forgive me, but I don't particularly trust your opinion about what you saw.

Question:
This thing below:



Is not LED Backlight? Only EDGE-LIT???

If so, then this imo is NOT a successor to this then:

Sony Bravia HX950/HX955



Personally, if I'm talking about flagship LCD HDTVs AND am only forced to choose one feature, I'd take LED BACKLIGHT over 4K/UHD anyday.

Rogo is my friend and I trust what he sees.

Am I the only person in the world who has friends that come and watch TV with me and sit to the left and tight of dead on center?

Why would I or anyone else want them to see a significantly worse picture than me if I was sitting dead center?

I'm sorry--LCD NEVER has cut it when it comes to viewing angles and NEVER WILL.

The truth IS I just state what every "sophisticated" plasma lover here knows but is afraid to come out and say and that is once plasma dies--if all we have is LCD--that will be messed up!

They don't have the courage to say that about the gorilla in the room--I do!

Much of the yearning for OLED is not just about OLED but the HORROR of LCD without a plasma alternative.

Do a poll--ask plasma lovers once their set dies--if OLED never pans out--would they be happy with LCD?!

The answer is NO!!!

And before people here try to villify me or act like I'm crazy just do a poll of display reviewers around the world--people who know everything about video picture quality--THEY know that LCD doesn't cut it--but should we believe them?

as Belushi would say NOOOOOOOOO! We're supposed to believe that LCD is good because that's what the video display companies want to sell and this forum is one of the places where they push their products!

You know how much I hate LCD? If the only way to avoid an all LCD world was with curved screen OLED that you could only watch in public bathroom stalls then I would go for that over LCD!!!!

Forgive me, I just don't trust your opinion of (a) something you didn't see ever and (b) a meaningless statement that colors will be "better". How much "better"? How bad are they now? How will they be better? Accuracy? Can't the Sonys already reproduce the relevant color gamut? Supra-gamut reproduction has no known use since sources aren't encoded for it.

Everything can be explained one way or the other.

http://youtu.be/wuZFkHgl5ZU

My Panny G20 doesn't degrade even when watching at 45º off axis.

Sadly, it looks like that is the case. I will say this though, neither the HX920 or HX950 (the last digit denotes region) have matched the HX900 image quality, due to using lower contrast LCD panels, and implementing the “Peak LED” system which increases contrast at the expense of introducing more haloing, and I haven’t seen the option to use local dimming without Peak LED on them. I had hoped it would be introduced as a new setting above “standard” for the local dimming option, but it seems to have just replaced it.
4K will use an expanded gamut, and I think all the sets using this are 4K native, aren’t they? (If not, I assume they are designed to at least display 4K material) That’s a big leg-up over the rest of the competition, who are only going wide gamut like that with OLED. (And Panasonic’s ZT60 with the new red phosphor)

I don’t expect that it will have much, if any impact on BT.709 image quality though.
I think it could be measurably more accurate, but we are at the point where improvements will be so small you will only be able to measure them rather than them being noticeable by eye.
Image quality shouldn't degrade on that much at all, though you will start to see a double image on that panel due to the front filter design, from what I remember.

But I think his point was that the better LCDs don’t degrade the image much at all, at the kind of angles it’s reasonable to watch the TV at. Once you get to a certain point, the image is so distorted from being at a sharp angle, it’s unwatchable anyway.