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SVS PB13-Ultra Alternative

post #1 of 33
12/29/12 at 6:28am
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone. I currently have the original PB13-Ultra sub in my hometheater. I would like to start running dual subwoofers. However I really do not feel like shelling out $2,000 at this time. I am assuming there are some DIY alternatives out there that can match the specs of this bad boy?
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post #2 of 33
12/29/12 at 6:50am
Absolutely. Few questions though.

Will these be two new subs or are you keeping the ultra?

What are your size limits and budget?

What are your goals? Two subs that are on par with one ultra? Each sub as good as an ultra? Each sub better?
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post #3 of 33
12/29/12 at 7:03am
Thread Starter 
Looking to build one sub that is on par with the ultra13. I want to run it with that sub. The size can be similar to the current svs sub. Ideally under $500 but I am not sure if that is possible. Budget can move.
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post #4 of 33
12/29/12 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

Looking to build one sub that is on par with the ultra13. I want to run it with that sub. The size can be similar to the current svs sub. Ideally under $500 but I am not sure if that is possible. Budget can move.
best to look at the measurement done at data-bass.com to get a rough idea on your options.
let say you're looking for highest output from say, 20Hz-80Hz for home theater. that's what most people would look for. highest output at acceptable distortion would (usually) translate to lower distortion when operated in less output.

so let's look at the short term output average from 20hz-80hz.

wait, what? where's pb13ultra?
oh wait, there it is. so i supposed something higher up from where the pb13ultra is at is a viable option for your consideration. quite a number of choices there.
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post #5 of 33
12/29/12 at 6:00pm
if you can go larger, the dayton 18" for $250 in a ported 8 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 20hz will do about the same performance with 1000 watts on it.

the stereo integrity 18" in a ported 6 cubic foot cab tuned to 20hz will do a hair less with 1000 watts on it.

the si subs can be ordered in dual 4 ohm, which is nice because they can be wired to net 2 ohms.

many cheap pro amps such as the inuke3000dsp output max power per channel at 2 ohms or 2 drivers bridged.

the amp is $350 and outputs a real 1100 watts per channel into 2 ohms.

so ofr $600, you can get started and for another $250 go for another one. :-)
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post #6 of 33
12/30/12 at 5:58am
Thread Starter 
LTD02,
both of those driver choices sound great. The problem is I have no idea how to design a ported 8 cubic foot cabinet. I was hopping I could piggy back on someones plans here for a tried a true system.
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post #7 of 33
12/30/12 at 10:22am
Do you have size limitations?
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post #8 of 33
12/30/12 at 10:35am
Thread Starter 
My current PB13-Ultra is 23"H x 27"D x 21" W. I would like to keep the next enclosure at the same height and potentially the same depth but the width could increase to 28" wide.
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post #9 of 33
12/30/12 at 11:00am
Hmm if you can swing a little more space I was thinking you could sell the svs and build 2 sealed enclosures with dual 18" HO's (4 drivers all together). After selling the svs that setup wouldn't cost you much, and it would make your svs look like a sony.
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post #10 of 33
12/30/12 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
What kind of space are we talking? I am building a new house next year with a bigger dedicated room.
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post #11 of 33
12/30/12 at 11:17am
I haven't built them but many people have. I don't have time to model them right now so maybe someone else can before I get to it. Anyway, if you got 4 of those drivers you could probably squeeze by with an nu6000 and it would cost you a little under 1400 with the discount of buying 4 drivers at once. I would be jealous tongue.gif

According to this link the nu6000 should give you around 2000 watts per channel, so 1000 watts each is perfect for the 18" HO.

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202_page1.html

As for how much space, without modeling it each enclosure would likely be twice the size of your svs or more. You could ofcourse build 4 separate smaller ones and distribute them around the room.
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post #12 of 33
12/30/12 at 3:37pm
The inuke doesn't really put out 2000 per channel. More like half that. Also the Dayton's wired together make a 2 ohm load. The inuke 6000 doesn't do 2ohms. The best match for two dual oppsed Daytons is something like a Marathon 5050. The Stereo Integrity 18's can be wired so as to match up with the inuke6000.

The 6000 could power two single Dayton 18's


Either way, you are really better off selling the ultra and building two new subs if you don't want to buy another ultra.
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post #13 of 33
12/31/12 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
I am all about selling the ultra and building two better subs to replace it. The problem is designing the enclosure for the drivers. That is out of current knowledge. Building would be fine but the plans to build is where the problem would come from.
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post #14 of 33
12/31/12 at 7:15am
No problem. There are already plenty of proven designs. If/when you sell the ultra, what would your total budget be?

Edit: also what are your finish expectations? Are you ok with a duratex/flat black type finish?
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post #15 of 33
12/31/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

The inuke doesn't really put out 2000 per channel. More like half that. Also the Dayton's wired together make a 2 ohm load. The inuke 6000 doesn't do 2ohms. The best match for two dual oppsed Daytons is something like a Marathon 5050. The Stereo Integrity 18's can be wired so as to match up with the inuke6000.
The 6000 could power two single Dayton 18's
Either way, you are really better off selling the ultra and building two new subs if you don't want to buy another ultra.

Woops looks like I misread that test, so I guess the nu6000 is a no go for 4 drivers, but it would still work if you only wanted to go with 2.

@diesel, if you are decided on 2 18" HO's, then someone can model them for you. I'd recommend ported if you are going with less than 4 drivers, and it looks like it wants a tune in the upper teens. Download winisd pro and punch in the numbers and mess around with it.
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post #16 of 33
1/1/13 at 5:41am
Thread Starter 
Duratex/Black painted MDF cabinets are fine with me. I have built towers before, veneered them and such. I do not need to go that route with the sub. What about Gorrilla's dual opposed 18" Dayton sealed design? Looks like people in the thread were pretty pumped about it. How would one of these compare with the SVS PB13 ultra? I would probably start with one and then eventually build the other one. Not sure if I saw how they were wired together and how they were being powered.
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post #17 of 33
1/1/13 at 6:08am
Diesel - there are a lot of good suggestions in this thread. I would also recommend building matching subs. The money from selling your Ultra will go a long way in this part of the forum. smile.gif Start with the DIY FAQ in my signature. It will walk you through the modeling process in looking at different box sizes. Sure, we could do it for you but this section is all about learning. smile.gif Once you have the hang of the tool modeling additional setups only takes a few seconds.
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post #18 of 33
1/1/13 at 11:05am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info Gorrilla, At this point I am not sure I see any reason to vary a whole lot from what you did. I think even your box dimension sizes would fit in my theater. Do you know if one of the subs you made is about equal to one pb13 ultra? Or would I need to build two just to get to the output of the 13. Right now I am leaning towards duplicating your build smile.gif
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post #19 of 33
1/1/13 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

Thanks for the info Gorrilla, At this point I am not sure I see any reason to vary a whole lot from what you did. I think even your box dimension sizes would fit in my theater. Do you know if one of the subs you made is about equal to one pb13 ultra? Or would I need to build two just to get to the output of the 13. Right now I am leaning towards duplicating your build smile.gif

If you've got the room the DO 18 setup is really nice for the money. Here is a comparison from data-bass of a single 18" Dayton vs. a PB13 in 20hz tune. Add 6db for a double driver (dual opposed) setup and the Dayton will beat it across the board except right at port tune where the PB has a 2 DB advantage. In PB13 sealed mode vs. the Dayton which is more applicable comparison it's not even close.

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post #20 of 33
1/2/13 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
OK,
I think I am going to build 2 subs both modeled after your build. Looks like a killer setup. I will had 2 more as soon as the new home theater room is finished at the end of the year. The box build process looks straight forward. I am more concerned about an amp and how to wire the speakers up properly. In your thread there were many 2ohm, 4ohm, 8ohm type posts. I was getting a bit confused there. Could you point me in the right direction? I plan on running two boxes with the clone amp you purchased. By the way do you have a link to the site on where to order that from? Also what is your signal chain like? Currently I have the two sub's. I am not running any EQ besides whatever Audyssey XT32 is giving me. If I were to add a mini dsp where does that go? Reciever -->MinidSP--->amp--->sub? Ready to start cutting!
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post #21 of 33
1/2/13 at 2:54pm
This may help with your wiring configuration questions. It's really straightforward after you get the basic concept.

You can wire each enclosure (with two or more drivers) up to reach a desired impedance and/or you can combine two or more enclosures to reach a desired impedance/load.
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post #22 of 33
1/3/13 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

OK,
I think I am going to build 2 subs both modeled after your build. Looks like a killer setup. I will had 2 more as soon as the new home theater room is finished at the end of the year. The box build process looks straight forward. I am more concerned about an amp and how to wire the speakers up properly. In your thread there were many 2ohm, 4ohm, 8ohm type posts. I was getting a bit confused there. Could you point me in the right direction? I plan on running two boxes with the clone amp you purchased. By the way do you have a link to the site on where to order that from? Also what is your signal chain like? Currently I have the two sub's. I am not running any EQ besides whatever Audyssey XT32 is giving me. If I were to add a mini dsp where does that go? Reciever -->MinidSP--->amp--->sub? Ready to start cutting!

The link used below is a great resource for wiring help. These subs are fairly simple as they are all 4 ohm. The configuration will depend on what amp you use. If you're running 2 boxes you really don't need a clone amp as you will only be using about half it's capacity. Others have chosen something like the Cerwin Vega CV5000 as a good choice for powering two boxes.

I run a minidsp which may or may not be needed depending on your room. The dsp would go between your receiver/processor and amplifier for the subs.
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post #23 of 33
1/3/13 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
The idea would be to eventually build 4 boxes, so I am not sure why I wouldn't buy the high power amp to start. I do no think the clone is that much more expensive unless I am looking in the wrong places.
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post #24 of 33
1/3/13 at 7:42am
If you plan to run 8 total drivers than get the clone from the start.
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post #25 of 33
1/3/13 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

The idea would be to eventually build 4 boxes, so I am not sure why I wouldn't buy the high power amp to start. I do no think the clone is that much more expensive unless I am looking in the wrong places.

Before you decide, read through all or most of the LG clone thread in this section. It is for sure a very powerful amplifier for an inexpensive price, but there are some risks that must be balanced in with that decision. I'm happy with my 14K clone so far, I just like to disclose that information before recommending it to other people, that's all.
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post #26 of 33
1/3/13 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
I totally understand about the LG clone recommendation. You really never know what you are getting into. I have a few knock off items from China and so far things are going well. Most of the items I have purchased so far are for my other hobby, RC airplanes. There will be no problem running just two boxes on all that power at first right? I still might a bit of guidance when it comes to wiring.
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post #27 of 33
1/3/13 at 8:05am
You will just use one channel for the two DO boxes.
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post #28 of 33
1/3/13 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

You will just use one channel for the two DO boxes.

You could do that or run the subs in pairs of 8 ohm stereo (drivers in series for each cabinet) like I did. I did it this way to maintain both individual channels of sub eq, but your situation could be different. I later discovered that Audyssey in my case works much better with the subs running off one channel, so feel free to experiment with that too. smile.gif
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post #29 of 33
1/3/13 at 10:44am
You'll need a DCX or minidsp for the clone, as compared to the nuke dsp amps.
You may want the speakon version of the clone, with speakon cables.
Add a 30amp 120v wiring or 15amp 240v wiring; box of screws and some glue, add 1 or 2 XLR cables; and now for the first sub box your expense
went from just: ~$500 to ~$2000... and another ~$1700 for the other 3 boxes.
I love spending other peoples money, it's so much fun. biggrin.gif
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post #30 of 33
1/3/13 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

for my other hobby, RC airplanes.

Pfff... RC Heli's are better... biggrin.gif

For the people that don't know check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQnVVLcnJE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnk-5G7TB60

But I have no problem going into a REAL airplane to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqFdDbLSNaM

Now, that really gets yoru blood pumping and is lots of fun! biggrin.gif

Back on topic, I purchased most of my RC Heli parts directly from china as well.
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