Panasonic 2012 Plasma "Oil Painting" Issue Thread

Originally Posted by Spanbauer 

Forgive me if this has a dedicated thread already but I was not able to find one. I'd like to start a discussion about the poor upscaling quality of the 2012 Panasonic plasmas, commonly known as the "oil painting" effect, which seems to have been largely ignored and completely overlooked by all reviews. It's present whenever a 2012 Panasonic Plasma* receives a signal below 1080p and is left to upscale the video itself. What I can only assume is an attempt to mask the lower quality, the television's upconverter applies what best resembles the "Median" filter found in Adobe Photoshop. The result looks extremely similar to this mockup I created, although I've obviously overdramatized the issue here (be sure to enlarge):

From what I've been told, this issue is apparent on the UT50, ST50, GT50, and likely the VT50 (unconfirmed), regardless of manufacturing date (my ST50 suffers this issue and was manufactured November 2012). If you're not seeing the issue, it's either because you're not viewing any sources below 1080p or you're sitting too far away to notice. If your set top boxes or audio receiver upscales video content to 1080p before sending it to the television, you will not see the issue. An xBox 360 will not show the issue as it internally scales all content to 1080p (if that is your resolution setting), but a PS3 will show the issue (unless your audio receiver upscales the image) as most games output at a 720p signal. Broadcast television from cable or antenna via the coaxial jack will show this issue with 720p and SD channels. First and second-generation Apple TV's, which only operate at 720p, will suffer from this issue (again, unless your receiver is upscaling beforehand). You can confirm what kind of signal your Panasonic is receiving by pressing the "info" button on the remote during playback.
My questions are: what can be done about this and why aren't people making a bigger stink over it? I can only assume it's because there are very few of us viewing 720p signals with enough proximity to notice or care about the horrendous picture quality (I sit 6.5ft from my 50" plasma and it's painfully apparent). I'm accustomed to Samsung's fantastic upconverting in the PN50B650 plasma I previously owned, which made 720p content virtually indistinguishable from 1080p content. My number one 720p source is my Apple TV, which looked flawless on the Samsung, but with the Panasonic ST50 I would have to shell out another $99 for the 3rd-Generation 1080p Apple TV to get acceptable picture quality. But for PS3 owners without a receiver that upscales 720p content, there's no solution apart from returning a 2012 Panasonic Plasma for something else. Which, if I were a PS3 owner, is exactly what I would do.
Has anyone discussed this issue with Panasonic? Are they aware of the issue? Doing anything to improve matters with a firmware update? Thanks for the discussion!
*I've confirmed the issue on my ST50 and read of its existence on the UT50 and GT50; if anyone can confirm one way or the other with the VT50 that'd be great.

Originally Posted by Spanbauer 

Yes, the Samsung's do fantastic upscaling, or at least the 2009 models did (can't personally vouche for the others). I never understood the point of the 3rd generation 1080p Apple TV because the 2nd generation 720p model looked fantastic on my Samsung. Not so on the Panasonic, where all 720p sources look abysmal. The Panasonic of course is better in many, many other respects - which is why I want a solution to the upscaling issue as opposed to returning the set altogether.

Originally Posted by Spanbauer 

Thanks for the response, 6SpeedTA95. I'd be very surprised to know the VT50 experienced the issue with SD material but not 720p material; I would imagine that either Panasonic would be using the same upscaling technique across their entire line-up, or else certain models would use a different method altogether. How far are you seated from your VT50? The issue definitely becomes more apparent the lower the source material, so is it possible you're just too far away to see the issue with 720p content? It's definitely more apparent with static images (like the movies posters and album covers and photo sideshows of the Apple TV), so if you're only watching broadcast material you may have not noticed the issue.
I'd be really curious to hear if you can see the issue on the U50, and how it compares to the VT50. You're probably one of the few people with multiple 2012 Panasonic plasmas in-house, so it'd be really interesting to hear what you see. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Spanbauer 

Unfortunately that cannot be done. All flatscreens (to my knowledge) internally scale the signal to 1080p. The only way to avoid the television scaling your image is to feed it a 1080p source - not possible if your source isn't available in 1080p.

Originally Posted by Spanbauer 

That is the road I'll have to go down, but it's money I hadn't anticipated spending and there's no solution for my OTA 720p channels.

As I understand it, most PS3 games run at 720p and the console actually outputs a 720p signal during gameplay; the xbox 360 also runs many games well below 1080p resolution, but internally upscales the image before sending it to the television. I don't own a PS3 so I cannot confirm that's the case, but it is what I have read. And if true, then the only solution for PS3 owners would be to pony up for an expensive receiver that will upconvert 720p HDMI sources to 1080p, and do it really well.

It's quite possible your Denon receiver is upscaling the image to 1080p, thus avoiding the problem entirely. Pressing the "info" button on your tv remote will indicate whether or not the television is actually receiving a 720p signal from the source or if the receiver's converting it to 1080p beforehand.

Originally Posted by Todd68 

I watched 720p and 1080i football and they both looked awesome on VT50. But I have an OPPO doing the video up converting, so I guess this don't count.
Cheers!

Originally Posted by spakins 

Seeing this thread is ironic. 3 weeks ago I purchased the sammy pn64e533 from costco. I love the TV, but with no AR coating the bright room performance suffers too much and I didnt think I could live with that long term. So, two days ago, I went out and picked up a panny 65" ST50. All the reviews I read were glowing and mentioned one of its main strengths was the bright room performance.
However, having these two fed with my AT&T U-verse HDMI side by side, the sammy does a much, much better job with both 720P and 1080i content. In fact, it's so much better I am having a tough time deciding if a glare/dim daytime picture isnt actualy the lesser evil. I might actual return the ST50 now and keep the sammy and deal with the glare.
I read extensively about the ST50 before picking it up and dont think I ever read how real the video processing differences (vs samsung) were. I will say however that the ST50 completely kills it with 1080P sources. Hands downs winner and it's AR filter is great.

Originally Posted by spakins 

I have 12 more days to decide on the st50 (rcwilley only has 14 day return policy). I'll let you know what I decide. I'm home from work and looking at them side by side again. The panny is excellent in so many areas and has a better panel for sure. I just wish the video processing was to the same level. I think in the real long term (5+ years) 1080p content may become more prevalent making video processing less of a differentiator.

Originally Posted by Spanbauer 

Forgive me if this has a dedicated thread already but I was not able to find one. I'd like to start a discussion about the poor upscaling quality of the 2012 Panasonic plasmas, commonly known as the "oil painting" effect, which seems to have been largely ignored and completely overlooked by all reviews. It's present whenever a 2012 Panasonic Plasma* receives a signal below 1080p and is left to upscale the video itself. What I can only assume is an attempt to mask the lower quality, the television's upconverter applies what best resembles the "Median" filter found in Adobe Photoshop. The result looks extremely similar to this mockup I created, although I've obviously overdramatized the issue here (be sure to enlarge):

From what I've been told, this issue is apparent on the UT50, ST50, GT50, and likely the VT50 (unconfirmed), regardless of manufacturing date (my ST50 suffers this issue and was manufactured November 2012). If you're not seeing the issue, it's either because you're not viewing any sources below 1080p or you're sitting too far away to notice. If your set top boxes or audio receiver upscales video content to 1080p before sending it to the television, you will not see the issue. An xBox 360 will not show the issue as it internally scales all content to 1080p (if that is your resolution setting), but a PS3 will show the issue (unless your audio receiver upscales the image) as most games output at a 720p signal. Broadcast television from cable or antenna via the coaxial jack will show this issue with 720p and SD channels. First and second-generation Apple TV's, which only operate at 720p, will suffer from this issue (again, unless your receiver is upscaling beforehand). You can confirm what kind of signal your Panasonic is receiving by pressing the "info" button on the remote during playback.
My questions are: what can be done about this and why aren't people making a bigger stink over it? I can only assume it's because there are very few of us viewing 720p signals with enough proximity to notice or care about the horrendous picture quality (I sit 6.5ft from my 50" plasma and it's painfully apparent). I'm accustomed to Samsung's fantastic upconverting in the PN50B650 plasma I previously owned, which made 720p content virtually indistinguishable from 1080p content. My number one 720p source is my Apple TV, which looked flawless on the Samsung, but with the Panasonic ST50 I would have to shell out another $99 for the 3rd-Generation 1080p Apple TV to get acceptable picture quality. But for PS3 owners without a receiver that upscales 720p content, there's no solution apart from returning a 2012 Panasonic Plasma for something else. Which, if I were a PS3 owner, is exactly what I would do.
Has anyone discussed this issue with Panasonic? Are they aware of the issue? Doing anything to improve matters with a firmware update? Thanks for the discussion!
*I've confirmed the issue on my ST50 and read of its existence on the UT50 and GT50; if anyone can confirm one way or the other with the VT50 that'd be great.