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Panasonic ST50 vs Samsung PN60E8000 ($150 difference) Should i return my Panny?

post #1 of 26
12/30/12 at 1:23pm
Thread Starter 
So i purchased a 60" Panasonic ST50 a few days ago - and while the 2D is fantastic, the 3D is mediocre - theres no noticable crosstalk at 48hz, but i feel some strain after awhile - that and the colors arent as good

I noticed my local shop is having a sale on the 60" Samsung E8000 for $210 more than i paid for my ST50 ($1790 vs $1999 CDN) - what brings the price closer together is that that E8000 comes with 2 pairs of 3D glasses - i guess similiar to the 4100G, which is a $60 value for both. I believe the 3D is significantly better on the Samsung, while the 2D is very close, with the Panasonic having deeper blacks?

The E8000 is Samsungs flagship afaik - and probably comparable to the VT50 at the very least the GT50. Should i go thru the trouble of unmounting the ST50, exchanging it for the E8000 and re-prepping it? I already bought 2 pairs of 4100G glasses so i can recoup about $60 when i return those.

What do you guys think? will i even notice a difference in between the 2 when it comes to both 2D and 3D?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 26
12/30/12 at 1:33pm
How much 3d will you watch for me its one or twice every few months once the novelty wears off you may not watch much. I think the 2d picture is most important Samsungs seem to buzz more frequently so you have to consider that the 8000 is a great set i think panny buld quality is superior but thats just my opinion
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post #3 of 26
12/30/12 at 1:37pm
Thread Starter 
Right now im in the mindset of keeping 3D titles on a short list - becuz the Panny doesnt have the best 3D - maybe 4 to 5 titles top

Avatar, Toy Story 3, and other AAA 3D movies - probably Hobbit when its released.

I am concerned about buzz - is that something that the Samsungs are notorious for? The Panny buzzes on white backgrounds but its completely fine when theress audio (im sitting about 9 feet away from a 60" display lol)
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post #4 of 26
12/30/12 at 1:50pm
i heard the sammy buzz is more directional still great sets. I did own couple samsungs earlier this year one buzzed loud one didnt its a tough call

I owned 3 pannys not one single issue with those you do get more extensive calibration controls on the sammy and they are easier to calibrate for the most part
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post #5 of 26
12/30/12 at 1:58pm
I'm in the market for a new TV and have the same question but looking at the ST/GT50 and E7000.

I understand you can get just as good a picture with the ST if calibrated. For the extra $150 I was looking at the GT for the dual core processor, extra HDMI port, nicer bezel, and THX.

I've read the forums and get different opinions on the Panasonic and Samsung. Going from my 44" Samsung 720p DLP will be a big improvement.
How much better as the Panny's in bright light? My room can get fairly bright, I do have some contol with shades and blinds but I wouldn't call it dark by any means.

How big is the advantage of being able to update the E7000/E8000 over the next four years. The panel won't change but the motherboard will.
Does Samsung turn down it's brightness due to limitations of the panel or video processor chip? If the panel then upgrading the motherboard will have limitations.

Is the Panny panel much more advanced than the Samsung?

E7000 can do 96 Hz, Panny up to 60 Hz - 96Hz worth it?

Samsung better at 3D (my blue-ray only 2D at this point). More worried about 2D HD and regular cable.

Been reading about the buzz issues with the Samsung TV's which have me worried a little.

Remotes seem ok for both, Samsung better.

Pricing of 50" GT and 51" E7000 very close.

Thanks!
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post #6 of 26
12/30/12 at 8:44pm
The ST50 is better at 1080p/i while the E8000 is better at 720p, regular cable and other low-quality feeds. Scaling a 720p signal to 1080p/i before sending it to the Panasonic nullifies the Samsung's advantage in that regard. Most HD devices can do this.
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post #7 of 26
12/31/12 at 8:22am
Wow I have a very similar dilemma myself. I just purchased the 51" e800 but not picking it up until Wednesday and having second thoughts. Thinking about spending another $150 and goin g with the 55" gt50, but the Panasonic's 3d is holdimg me back. I probably won't use it that much but still want capable 3d playback and Im finding it very difficult to get a staight answer about the superiority of the Samsung's 3d over the Panasonic's in 48hz mode. Simple question is how much better is the Samsung going to be? Worth the smaller screen size?
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post #8 of 26
12/31/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

Wow I have a very similar dilemma myself. I just purchased the 51" e800 but not picking it up until Wednesday and having second thoughts. Thinking about spending another $150 and goin g with the 55" gt50, but the Panasonic's 3d is holdimg me back. I probably won't use it that much but still want capable 3d playback and Im finding it very difficult to get a staight answer about the superiority of the Samsung's 3d over the Panasonic's in 48hz mode. Simple question is how much better is the Samsung going to be? Worth the smaller screen size?

Blacks on the 51inch Samsungs are not as good as the larger models, again comes down to how much 3d are you going to watch ?
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post #9 of 26
12/31/12 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Blacks on the 51inch Samsungs are not as good as the larger models, again comes down to how much 3d are you going to watch ?
Unless the 3d has gotten signficantly worse on the Pannys since 2011 I don't think there is any question go with the Gt50. 3d on last years models was great cant imagine it being degraded when everything else was a huge step ahead.
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post #10 of 26
12/31/12 at 10:49am
Thanks for the posts guys. Yea I may head back to pauls tv and get the gt. I am still confused though because I talked to two different employees at pauls tv from two different locations and both swore by the 8000 hands down over the gt50, whereas everything I've read gives the edge to the panny. If the difference in 3d playback is only minimally worse on the gt I will go for it. I won't be using 3d nowhere near as much as 2d but want a good 3d performer nonetheless. My thoughs there are why buy a 3d tv if the playback is garbage. Any more comments to cement my decision either way? Haha
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post #11 of 26
12/31/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

Thanks for the posts guys. Yea I may head back to pauls tv and get the gt. I am still confused though because I talked to two different employees at pauls tv from two different locations and both swore by the 8000 hands down over the gt50, whereas everything I've read gives the edge to the panny. If the difference in 3d playback is only minimally worse on the gt I will go for it. I won't be using 3d nowhere near as much as 2d but want a good 3d performer nonetheless. My thoughs there are why buy a 3d tv if the playback is garbage. Any more comments to cement my decision either way? Haha

Sometimes salesman have an agenda due to inventory etc. Both sets are very comparable 2d wise, the Sammy because of the size will have slightly degraded blacks, I think 3d may be better on the Samsung but not drastically so, now the 4" size difference to me along with the black issue would be the deciding facor if it were me. Either way I am sure you will be pleased.
Edited by chunon - 12/31/12 at 11:04am
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post #12 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:05am
Thread Starter 
As of this minute - im leaning on keeping the ST50 - the blacks are BLACK - at default cinema mode its tough to tell where the letterbox ends and the bezel begins (might be exaggerating a bit).

The crosstalk in 3D really isnt that bad, you notice a bit of an "extra outline" (as i would describe it) in the odd scene at 60hz, and its improved at 48hz but i think the flicker, which really isnt that noticeable) might not be worth the trade off. Its tough to calibrate the 3D tho - i keep flipping back to 2D mode to try and match it as best i can...and if i were just to forget about 2D, the 3D is impressive (especially to someone who has no comparisons). The default cinema mode in 3D is too dark and the skin color too orangey i believe.

I really wish i can find decent 3D settings i can use as a baseline.
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post #13 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:07am
What tv are you currently using chunon?
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post #14 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post

As of this minute - im leaning on keeping the ST50 - the blacks are BLACK - at default cinema mode its tough to tell where the letterbox ends and the bezel begins (might be exaggerating a bit).
The crosstalk in 3D really isnt that bad, you notice a bit of an "extra outline" (as i would describe it) in some scenes at 60hz, and its improved at 48hz but i think the flicker, which really isnt that noticeable) might be worth the trade off. Its tough to calibrate the 3D tho - i keep flipping back to 2D mode to try and match it as best i can...and if i were just to forget about 2D, the 3D is impressive (especially to someone who has no comparisons). The default cinema mode in 3D is too dark and the skin color too orangey i believe.
I really wish i can find decent 3D settings i can use as a baseline.

You're not going to be able to calibrate 3d without a meter and software, I can guarantee the white balance is way off, best you can do is to try to get contrast brightness and color saturation right. For sure you want to go custom and high panel brightness I think for 3d.
Edited by chunon - 12/31/12 at 11:15am
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post #15 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

What tv are you currently using chunon?

I don't own either set sorry, I have the 2011 ST30. Spend alot of time here obviously lol. I read alot of reviews and pay attention to all the plasma posts especially the Panny ones.
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post #16 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post

As of this minute - im leaning on keeping the ST50 - the blacks are BLACK - at default cinema mode its tough to tell where the letterbox ends and the bezel begins (might be exaggerating a bit).
The crosstalk in 3D really isnt that bad, you notice a bit of an "extra outline" (as i would describe it) in the odd scene at 60hz, and its improved at 48hz but i think the flicker, which really isnt that noticeable) might not be worth the trade off. Its tough to calibrate the 3D tho - i keep flipping back to 2D mode to try and match it as best i can...and if i were just to forget about 2D, the 3D is impressive (especially to someone who has no comparisons). The default cinema mode in 3D is too dark and the skin color too orangey i believe.
I really wish i can find decent 3D settings i can use as a baseline.
[quote

That was exactly what I was looking for. I havent looked at the 3d on either set so I have no comparison. I just don't want unwatchable 3d. I really want a 55 though and I wasn't happy settling with a 51". In your honest opinion are you happy with the way the st is playing 3d or are you only holding on to it because of the great 2d picture?
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post #17 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I don't own either set sorry, I have the 2011 ST30. Spend alot of time here obviously lol. I read alot of reviews and pay attention to all the plasma posts especially the Panny ones.

Oh no problem I will take any advice and I'm sure you know much more then me if you spend a lot of time here...very useful forum it seems. With pauls it just seems that they go by whatever the higher model number is the better. Vt, e800, gt, 7000, ect. Is what they were telling me. I know that the picture quality difference between the 8000 and 7000 and the st50 and gt50 are almost identical so I cluldnt put to much faith into what the salesmen were telling me.
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post #18 of 26
12/31/12 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

Oh no problem I will take any advice and I'm sure you know much more then me if you spend a lot of time here...very useful forum it seems. With pauls it just seems that they go by whatever the higher model number is the better. Vt, e800, gt, 7000, ect. Is what they were telling me. I know that the picture quality difference between the 8000 and 7000 and the st50 and gt50 are almost identical so I cluldnt put to much faith into what the salesmen were telling me.

I think the fact you want a 55" and feel like you would be settling for a 51" decides if for you. I went from a 50 to a 55 and its a nice upgrade. I'm not anti-sammy by the way both very good plasma manufacturers. I just have more experience with Panasonics and like the build quality. If you do go for the GT50 lots of good folks here that can point you in the right directions settings wise. Its a minor plus but the THX modes on the Gt50 do yield a slightly better out of the box picture I think.
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post #19 of 26
12/31/12 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

[quote
That was exactly what I was looking for. I havent looked at the 3d on either set so I have no comparison. I just don't want unwatchable 3d. I really want a 55 though and I wasn't happy settling with a 51". In your honest opinion are you happy with the way the st is playing 3d or are you only holding on to it because of the great 2d picture?

3D is very watchable - especially if youre in a dark room so your eyes take in as much of the light as possible. I choose to leave it at 60hz just for that extra refresh/brightness - i would probably switch back to 48hz depending on the movie. Maybe something like Hugo would have more cross talk. But right now i tested with 2 3D Bluray movies (Avatar and Titanic :P) and they honestly look pretty damned good (once you kinda get used to the inherently dimmer picture) I spend most of last night trying to get the skin tone of Jack and Rose right (Rose's skin is pale, and her lips more red - while Jack's skin tone has a bit more color) looking correct and was flipping back and forth between the 3D bluray, and a 28Gb 1080p mkv - i know its not ideal but it was the fastest probably most accurate way i can get an approximation of color - at least that was my thought process

I also watched half sbs (side by side) of Tangled and Toy Story 3 3D - and once i figured out that my PC was appling overscan (and set it to 0%) and set to 1:1 pixel mapping (size 2 on the tv) , the crosstalk was in line with Bluray - negligible for the most part at 60hz.

In 3D The blacks werent as black without crushing the color, and there seemed to be an orange tint across everything - which was probably due to the glasses (Samsung 4100g). I found that if i set the color to "Normal" from "Warm 2" it seemed to counter act this. Again im no calibrator, but i am trying to be as nit picky as i can right now :P

I believe i jacked the brightness up to 76-83, and even played with it at 100.

I'm sure ill be tweaking more and more, with different styles of movies - ill try and come back and post what i come up with in a few days.

Are you deciding between a 55" ST50 and a 51" E8000?? I had the same dilemma 4 years ago - 2008 model panny (42") vs 2007 model panny ("50") - i actually bought both and had them side by side. After following some settings for the newer model by CNET (shrug) i tried to match the 50" as best i could. I couldnt quite get there (was close though) ..so i thought id go for PQ over size and boxed up the 50". After a few days - the size of the 50" kept calling back - and switched back.

After a few more days - i stuck with the 50" and was pretty happy with it. I think the 8" difference was more of a WOW factor than the super subtle PQ differences.

To answer your question - yes to both :P I am happy with the 3D of the panny AND holding onto it because of the 2D picture (esp the blacks) . If i keep 3D to a really really small list of titles - then i think it would be better for me to keep the ST50.

That and im really too lazy to unmount, repackage, lug the damned tv down 3 flights of stairs to do an exchange. Not to mention redo the 100hr slide prep again.

I may change my mind in the next 5mins...
Edited by jerrolds - 12/31/12 at 12:25pm
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post #20 of 26
12/31/12 at 12:44pm
I would get the Panasonic, I've had 2 58 Samsung Plasmas and both had that pink banding issue. My current one is the C8000 and its just dim and not impressed with it. I could live with the banding but the dimness sucks.
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post #21 of 26
12/31/12 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

Thanks for the posts guys. Yea I may head back to pauls tv and get the gt. I am still confused though because I talked to two different employees at pauls tv from two different locations and both swore by the 8000 hands down over the gt50

Somehow this has meaning for you. What, I can't imagine.
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post #22 of 26
12/31/12 at 1:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Somehow this has meaning for you. What, I can't imagine.

Sales guys are the worst - a couple days ago i called the shop and told them "ya im thinking of exchanging this ST50 for the E8000 because theresa pretty decent deal on it" and he says "the panasonic has 10x better picture than the samsung - not even a contest. The 3D is the same cuz they both use Active shutter" then i just thought - ok its hard to negotiate when i already gave them my money. I called just now acting like a new cust and since the E8000 is $200 more the sales guy says "The picture is very close but the E8000 is a bit better, and the 3D is almost exactly the same - but the E8000 is better cuz it has dual core ..."

In my head im like "you guys are useless"
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post #23 of 26
12/31/12 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Sometimes salesman have an agenda due to inventory etc. Both sets are very comparable 2d wise, the Sammy because of the size will have slightly degraded blacks, I think 3d may be better on the Samsung but not drastically so, now the 4" size difference to me along with the black issue would be the deciding facor if it were me. Either way I am sure you will be pleased.

I saw 3D effect on Samsung LED ES8000 (The Best Samsung on 3D Performance) VS GT50...THE SAME EFFECT....Bluetooh really improves the 3D experience...I test both tv's. For a better 3D...Passive LG Effect is a clear Winner. Plus GT50 has THX 3D Certification.
Edited by agkss - 12/31/12 at 2:20pm
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post #24 of 26
12/31/12 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Somehow this has meaning for you. What, I can't imagine.

Easy.
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post #25 of 26
12/31/12 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post

3D is very watchable - especially if youre in a dark room so your eyes take in as much of the light as possible. I choose to leave it at 60hz just for that extra refresh/brightness - i would probably switch back to 48hz depending on the movie. Maybe something like Hugo would have more cross talk. But right now i tested with 2 3D Bluray movies (Avatar and Titanic :P) and they honestly look pretty damned good (once you kinda get used to the inherently dimmer picture) I spend most of last night trying to get the skin tone of Jack and Rose right (Rose's skin is pale, and her lips more red - while Jack's skin tone has a bit more color) looking correct and was flipping back and forth between the 3D bluray, and a 28Gb 1080p mkv - i know its not ideal but it was the fastest probably most accurate way i can get an approximation of color - at least that was my thought process
I also watched half sbs (side by side) of Tangled and Toy Story 3 3D - and once i figured out that my PC was appling overscan (and set it to 0%) and set to 1:1 pixel mapping (size 2 on the tv) , the crosstalk was in line with Bluray - negligible for the most part at 60hz.
In 3D The blacks werent as black without crushing the color, and there seemed to be an orange tint across everything - which was probably due to the glasses (Samsung 4100g). I found that if i set the color to "Normal" from "Warm 2" it seemed to counter act this. Again im no calibrator, but i am trying to be as nit picky as i can right now :P
I believe i jacked the brightness up to 76-83, and even played with it at 100.
I'm sure ill be tweaking more and more, with different styles of movies - ill try and come back and post what i come up with in a few days.
Are you deciding between a 55" ST50 and a 51" E8000?? I had the same dilemma 4 years ago - 2008 model panny (42") vs 2007 model panny ("50") - i actually bought both and had them side by side. After following some settings for the newer model by CNET (shrug) i tried to match the 50" as best i could. I couldnt quite get there (was close though) ..so i thought id go for PQ over size and boxed up the 50". After a few days - the size of the 50" kept calling back - and switched back.
After a few more days - i stuck with the 50" and was pretty happy with it. I think the 8" difference was more of a WOW factor than the super subtle PQ differences.
To answer your question - yes to both :P I am happy with the 3D of the panny AND holding onto it because of the 2D picture (esp the blacks) . If i keep 3D to a really really small list of titles - then i think it would be better for me to keep the ST50.
That and im really too lazy to unmount, repackage, lug the damned tv down 3 flights of stairs to do an exchange. Not to mention redo the 100hr slide prep again.
I may change my mind in the next 5mins...

Thank you very much for the in-depth review. Titanic...haha one of my favorite movies, my wife gets annoyed because I watch it every time it's on. Yes I am thinking about the 55: gt50 and the 51" e8000. I think yours and the other posts in this thread are enough to convince me to go back to pauls and get a refund then head over to Best Buy and pick up the gt50. I really don't like Paul's TV return policy at all which is why I want to get a refund before I actually pick the tv up. Well thank you again and sorry for hijacking your thread to some extent. Keep us updated for any 3d calibrations that improve 3d PQ.
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post #26 of 26
12/31/12 at 4:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steele6794 View Post

Thank you very much for the in-depth review. Titanic...haha one of my favorite movies, my wife gets annoyed because I watch it every time it's on. Yes I am thinking about the 55: gt50 and the 51" e8000. I think yours and the other posts in this thread are enough to convince me to go back to pauls and get a refund then head over to Best Buy and pick up the gt50. I really don't like Paul's TV return policy at all which is why I want to get a refund before I actually pick the tv up. Well thank you again and sorry for hijacking your thread to some extent. Keep us updated for any 3d calibrations that improve 3d PQ.

LOL ya Titanic is awesome :P i think cuz it reminds me of being 19

I already have an update - i just got back from Futureshop and picked up the Panny 3D glasses - they fit better (esp over glasses) and they have less tint (ever so slight). But enough to bump the color from "Normal" to "Warm 1". So thats another strike against the E8000 because i think if i were to get it, id probably still have to get the panasonic glasses cuz of the tint - in spite of it having 2 free pairs.
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