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AE TD12x SEOS12 Build!!!! - Page 9

post #241 of 356
1/30/13 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

For what? Building something like Beast's SEOS?

The answer would be losing output near where he has his tuned. Beside that if you went sealed with a controlled excursion profile, you'll be able to run full range (if that's what you want) with absolutely zero fear of mechanically damaging your woofer.

You could build it vented and seal it up after the fact but usually this requires a slightly larger box than if you just wanted sealed.

It's all coming together in my head now. 360, TD12X, 2.5 cu ft sealed BB box, 12" SEOS front baffle flat black, sides stained to match my SI sub box. It would look and perform killer for the price. I would just need help building the crossover. Beast's speakers are the guideline I would build from. They look great.
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post #242 of 356
1/30/13 at 10:32am
^^^ f3 95hz.

same enclosure, td12s f3 = 70hz. might work a little better depending on what you are shooting for.
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post #243 of 356
1/30/13 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the kind words!! Had I to do it all over again, I probably would have gone with the 30" tall baffles to be able to trim off some of the depth of the box, but in my case that as easily neogtiable since my screen is 3 feet off the front wall, aka, plenty of room. many that aren't going A-T with their screen would benefit placement-wise by doing a thinner, taller box, but still keep it at 2.5cuft smile.gifport would still be about 13x13x2 to get a similar tune to what I have smile.gif as you see your f3 will be 93hz whereas mine is 48, pretty substantial difference. In room it will depend on your room gain, but I would still win out, going sealed they could be run full range but their response more than likely won't be close.
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post #244 of 356
1/30/13 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

^^^ f3 95hz.

same enclosure, td12s f3 = 70hz. might work a little better depending on what you are shooting for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Thanks for the kind words!! Had I to do it all over again, I probably would have gone with the 30" tall baffles to be able to trim off some of the depth of the box, but in my case that as easily neogtiable since my screen is 3 feet off the front wall, aka, plenty of room. many that aren't going A-T with their screen would benefit placement-wise by doing a thinner, taller box, but still keep it at 2.5cuft smile.gifport would still be about 13x13x2 to get a similar tune to what I have smile.gif as you see your f3 will be 93hz whereas mine is 48, pretty substantial difference. In room it will depend on your room gain, but I would still win out, going sealed they could be run full range but their response more than likely won't be close.

Good catch on that. I would have needed stands anyway for the smaller box, so getting the taller baffle, keeping the port, and building from that makes a lot of sense.

This is why I'm jumping into DIY. Great community and advice.
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post #245 of 356
2/5/13 at 9:05pm
Where's everyone been..... How are these now that there all dialed in?
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post #246 of 356
2/5/13 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Where's everyone been..... How are these now that there all dialed in?

His findings are the whole reason I started my build. My TD12Xs are on order, and John from AE modeled my towers down to 32hz. Should be stellar.
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post #247 of 356
2/5/13 at 9:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Where's everyone been..... How are these now that there all dialed in?

Enjoying their new builds!!! haha. Actually, I am loving mine so much so far without Audyssey, I haven't even used it. I plan tomorrow night on retro-fitting my old LLT sono's to two dual opposed SI18 machines by removing the port, and building a new top-cap with the additional woofers facing the sky, at which point they will be incorporated with the other 4 SI18's already running in the theater and THEN I will calibrate everything to destroy any other system I have owned thus far biggrin.gif

I also had a live show with In Flames and All Shall Perish that I needed to attend tonight so, there is that. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

His findings are the whole reason I started my build. My TD12Xs are on order, and John from AE modeled my towers down to 32hz. Should be stellar.

yea, little jealous about that, especially since his models show you can run them like that to 122dB's safely. Wonder what my "modest" 47hz tune would let me run them to?? Haha I don't know the whole design's limits but I know they exceed my ears' comfort level so I am all good with whatever I might be leaving on the table biggrin.gif A 32Hz tune is KILLER bro! can't wait to see your graphs (you are doing measurements after right???).
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post #248 of 356
2/5/13 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Enjoying their new builds!!! haha. Actually, I am loving mine so much so far without Audyssey, I haven't even used it. I plan tomorrow night on retro-fitting my old LLT sono's to two dual opposed SI18 machines by removing the port, and building a new top-cap with the additional woofers facing the sky, at which point they will be incorporated with the other 4 SI18's already running in the theater and THEN I will calibrate everything to destroy any other system I have owned thus far biggrin.gif

I also had a live show with In Flames and All Shall Perish that I needed to attend tonight so, there is that. smile.gif
yea, little jealous about that, especially since his models show you can run them like that to 122dB's safely. Wonder what my "modest" 47hz tune would let me run them to?? Haha I don't know the whole design's limits but I know they exceed my ears' comfort level so I am all good with whatever I might be leaving on the table biggrin.gif A 32Hz tune is KILLER bro! can't wait to see your graphs (you are doing measurements after right???).

I've never had the desire to measure before (Despite getting a Denon 4311 and a Submersive HP), but with these going in, I feel like I must. I also just got the Sherwood R-972.... and Trinnov is sick. Not sure which one I want to keep yet, as XT32 EQs a little better for the subs, but the "wall of sound" 3D remapping Trinnov creates is really, really cool.

What's the cheapest, nicest, easiest measurement tool I can go with? I have a PC in the same room. REW + Omnimic?
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post #249 of 356
2/6/13 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
What's the cheapest, nicest, easiest measurement tool I can go with? I have a PC in the same room. REW + Omnimic?

not both! One or the other really. dead cheapest is REW and your RS meter (if you don't have one, you should to test any auto calibration results at least for Spl accuracy). get the uca202 external sound card for your laptop and measure away. I chose to go the slightly easier but more expensive route by purchasing the Omnimic system ($300) that has everything you need in a nice case, and you can be measuring in minutes. It takes a little less time to set up and get working than REW. but REW has a little more capability in some areas.
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post #250 of 356
2/6/13 at 8:56am
It seems they have added Omnimic support for REW: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/47460-v5-01-beta-downloads-asio-support.html#post583729

That's pretty cool if you need to use REW for something that the Omnimic software is missing without having to buy another mic. You can also get a MiniDSP USB mic which is already supported by REW but will also work with HOLMImpulse and Arta Impulse Response measurement software. Dayton has a new USB mic as well and Cross-Spectrum already has a calibrated version available.

Omnimic is definitely the easiest system to use though, just one of the most expensive as well.
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post #251 of 356
2/6/13 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 
Oh now that is VERY cool. And I see it is OSX compatible too. A double bonus!
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post #252 of 356
2/6/13 at 9:20am
Yep, Omnimic. Just need to sell my Denon 4311 to recoup some funds first.

Trinnov has me hooked, and I barely even tested it yet. The Sherwood R972 refurb was an absolute steal as a pre-pro with Trinnov for $299.
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post #253 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:18am
By the way, awesome build B!

Now you really have me jonesing to do a SEOS build.
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post #254 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

By the way, awesome build B!

Now you really have me jonesing to do a SEOS build.

Its the next evolutionary step for all of us. Unless we are running JTR/Seaton/some other hi-end speaker, there is no reason not to jump on these for their performance and value.
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post #255 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Yep, Omnimic. Just need to sell my Denon 4311 to recoup some funds first.

Trinnov has me hooked, and I barely even tested it yet. The Sherwood R972 refurb was an absolute steal as a pre-pro with Trinnov for $299.

I am hooked on Trinnov too, just wish there was another option besides spending $10K+ for the ADA or Trinnov's own standalone EQ.
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post #256 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I am hooked on Trinnov too, just wish there was another option besides spending $10K+ for the ADA or Trinnov's own standalone EQ.

Just use this as a pre-pro

http://slickdeals.net/f/5770736-Refurb-Sherwood-Newcastle-R-972-7-1ch-Receiver-299-FS-1saleaday?&page=7

Trinnov can correct down to 20hz I believe, so it would work well with beast's build or one like it.
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post #257 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Its the next evolutionary step for all of us. Unless we are running JTR/Seaton/some other hi-end speaker, there is no reason not to jump on these for their performance and value.

Beast had JTR speakers, are the SEOS as good or better?

I really like my Triad gold LCR's but miss the mid-bass slam of the QSC HPR153i's I use to have, I am thinking the SEOS will be a good mix between the 2.
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post #258 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just use this as a pre-pro

http://slickdeals.net/f/5770736-Refurb-Sherwood-Newcastle-R-972-7-1ch-Receiver-299-FS-1saleaday?&page=7

Trinnov can correct down to 20hz I believe, so it would work well with beast's build or one like it.

I already have 2 of them and the "wall of sound" like you describe is exactly why I don't want to part with them. I agree with you that XT32 does a better job on the subs and if Audyssey would incorporate some form of 3D re-mapping like what Trinnov does it would be the perfect EQ. I got rid of my Onkyo 5508 even though it sounds better for music but for movies the 3D re-mapping has me hooked, I just can't go back to XT32 after hearing what Trinnov does.
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post #259 of 356
2/6/13 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Beast had JTR speakers, are the SEOS as good or better?

I really like my Triad gold LCR's but miss the mid-bass slam of the QSC HPR153i's I use to have, I am thinking the SEOS will be a good mix between the 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I already have 2 of them and the "wall of sound" like you describe is exactly why I don't want to part with them. I agree with you that XT32 does a better job on the subs and if Audyssey would incorporate some form of 3D re-mapping like what Trinnov does it would be the perfect EQ. I got rid of my Onkyo 5508 even though it sounds better for music but for movies the 3D re-mapping has me hooked, I just can't go back to XT32 after hearing what Trinnov does.

This is what ChopShop said in his SEOS build thread:

"For the cost of $400 a piece, plus your own labor, an absolute no brainer. These things, imho, smoked the Triad gold lcr setup I heard not too long ago To be fair to them, they were seeing half the power, but still impressive."

The TD12X drivers should be even more impressive over the ones he used, as they can be tuned lower to create a full range speaker.
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post #260 of 356
2/6/13 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

By the way, awesome build B!

Now you really have me jonesing to do a SEOS build.

Thanks dude! It was super fun and the results are more than I could have asked for. Truly incredible for the price, but now I want moar horns in the theater, so I am looking into some surround horn kits, even though my coaxial 10" surrounds are pretty stinkin great already biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Its the next evolutionary step for all of us. Unless we are running JTR/Seaton/some other hi-end speaker, there is no reason not to jump on these for their performance and value.

I WAS running JTR smile.gif Triple 12 LR and T8 center to be exact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just use this as a pre-pro

http://slickdeals.net/f/5770736-Refurb-Sherwood-Newcastle-R-972-7-1ch-Receiver-299-FS-1saleaday?&page=7

Trinnov can correct down to 20hz I believe, so it would work well with beast's build or one like it.

Would be nice to correct down to10hz at least. I will be flat beyond 10hz by this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Beast had JTR speakers, are the SEOS as good or better?

I really like my Triad gold LCR's but miss the mid-bass slam of the QSC HPR153i's I use to have, I am thinking the SEOS will be a good mix between the 2.

The SEOS take the cake for me for two reasons. They extend lower so they are better for music listening sans-sub system, and they have a smaller dispersion pattern with the toe-in so they work better with my not-so-wide placement...As far as midbass, if you REALLY let the JTR's run hard, they had some good midbass, but my SEOS build just sounds more "full" with the added bandwidth.
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post #261 of 356
2/6/13 at 11:09am
I'm still waiting for a honest comparison between a DIY and Noesis. I know my 4 year old JTR's could be outdone by even the new Triple 12's let alone the Noesis.
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post #262 of 356
2/6/13 at 11:11am
I'm interested in what surrounds you'll be adding. I was thinking the Tempests to match the DNA360. I know once these go in that I'm gonna want more.

Also interested in the "Noetalysts" when they ever do make an appearance.
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post #263 of 356
2/6/13 at 12:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I'm interested in what surrounds you'll be adding. I was thinking the Tempests to match the DNA360. I know once these go in that I'm gonna want more.

Also interested in the "Noetalysts" when they ever do make an appearance.

I would run into size issues going to the tempests for surrounds, I was looking more at the 8 or 10" iteration, as they would be MORE than capable as surrounds, heck even the 8" deal would outperform most of the commercial speakers anyone I know has, haha.
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post #264 of 356
2/6/13 at 12:14pm
Thread Starter 
I might just scoop a pair of the alchemys just to see if they are even good enough, if they aren't they can be my new bedroom speakers and ill jump up to the 10" version or something...
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post #265 of 356
2/6/13 at 2:01pm
Beast
What did these things end up weighing when finished? Do they pick up mid bass the closer to the walls and boundries? The AE drivers are beautiful. Can you think of any reason not to do this build? I am little to excited by this build and I cant tell if I am missing something.
Thanks
Chris
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post #266 of 356
2/6/13 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Beast
What did these things end up weighing when finished? Do they pick up mid bass the closer to the walls and boundries? The AE drivers are beautiful. Can you think of any reason not to do this build? I am little to excited by this build and I cant tell if I am missing something.
Thanks
Chris

The TD's are heavy. Id say as heavy as the SI18's actually, and if not, they aren't far off. They do pick up a little additional hump when I back them a little further into the corners, but I also have bass trapping directly behind them, and it may also be some bounce off the Dual opposed box they perch on, but it still does happen smile.gif

Can I think of any reason not to? Absolutely not if you can get your hands on the TD12x's first. I don't know if they have a wait time or not anymore. I don't think you are missing anything. It is about as straight up as it can be. Just good drivers, good design, and a killer XO to make em sing. I still can't believe the performance, I feel like it is highway robbery.
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post #267 of 356
2/6/13 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Beast
What did these things end up weighing when finished? Do they pick up mid bass the closer to the walls and boundries? The AE drivers are beautiful. Can you think of any reason not to do this build? I am little to excited by this build and I cant tell if I am missing something.
Thanks
Chris

+1

Very striking.

Can't wait to hear these in person!
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post #268 of 356
2/6/13 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

I'm still waiting for a honest comparison between a DIY and Noesis. I know my 4 year old JTR's could be outdone by even the new Triple 12's let alone the Noesis.

I don't know how the SEOS Tempest DIY speakers compare to what Beast has, but a few weeks ago mrsmithers, Archaea, and I did a comparison of my old eD Cinema speakers, and the SEOS that mrsmithers built. At the end we fired up the Noesis and all 3 of us agreed that they are on another level.

However, for the money the SEOS speakers were awesome!! and if you had to listen full range the bass was much better than the Noesis. In my room the Noesis are good to the mid 50's. The SEOS dipped into the 20's!!

Long story short, the SEOS didn't give me that addicting/unbelievably smooth sound for music that the Noesis do.

Here is some comments from that day, read down a few posts. Jonathan (Archaea) didn't post, but when we hooked up the Noesis at the end of the comparison he commented that it was the only time he got goosebumps all day and preferred the Noesis by a lot.

HOWEVER!!!!! The difference in cost is HUGE!!!!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450390/l-r-seos-tempest-build-jeff-bagby-design/30#post_22821055
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post #269 of 356
2/6/13 at 6:10pm
^^^^

So you are suggesting I start saving up!
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post #270 of 356
2/6/13 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


HOWEVER!!!!! The difference in cost is HUGE!!!!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450390/l-r-seos-tempest-build-jeff-bagby-design/30#post_22821055

If money was no object, I would own the Noesis speakers as well. The draw to these SEOS designs is the performance you get for the cost.

Based on the way these can beat out T8's and possibly the T12's, the Noesis have about a 2 year head start before the cost of the compression driver comes down, or a cheaper one can be made at around the same quality that can be thrown into these. By that time, Jeff will be one step ahead anyway smile.gif
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