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factors contributing to 3d perception

post #1 of 6
1/2/13 at 5:44am
Thread Starter 
There is one question about factors thet contributes to perceived 3d quality and I’ll put it this way :

1- for a given screen size , when moving a projector within focus range (mini-maxi ) to keep this same screen size, what effect does this have on perceived 3d depth and pop.
2- Does it matter if you are sitting in between the projector and the screen versus behind the projector
3- What is the 3d percieved difference (depth pop) for the same screen size between 2 projectors with different focus capabilities (ex short throw w1070 versus normal throw projector ( ex w7000)
4- Do all projectors have the paralax adjustment like the new panasonic and does this have any effect on depth ? ?
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post #2 of 6
1/2/13 at 5:55am
Another point which I just discovered. If one of your eyes is slightly blurry (as one of mine is awaiting caterac surgery) you will not perceive very much 3D either in real life or in a 3D movie. If the blurry eye can't discern and process the detail from the lens angle, you will end up seeing shuttered 2D. I verified this several times last week. Open and shut the blurry eye, no difference to what I saw.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/2/13 at 8:35am
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post #3 of 6
1/2/13 at 6:05am
1. No effect. Only the projector's brightness/contrast will be different.
2. No.
3. No difference.
4. Parallax setting does influence perceived 3D depth. It is safe to assume not all projectors have this setting.

What's really important for 3D perception are the following factors:
1) Like for 2D image - contrast, gamma, color. The image behind the glasses will be more real if the projector is calibrated in 3D to a standard it was mastered for (Rec.709 for HD content).
2) Image size
3) Viewing distance
4) Pixel grid visibility (screen door effect)
5) Motion properties of the projector
6) Flickering of shutterglasses
7) Amount of ghosting

DLP projectors are the current king of 3D, imo.
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post #4 of 6
1/2/13 at 11:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Another point which I just discovered. If one of your eyes is slightly blurry (as one of mine is awaiting caterac surgery) you will not perceive very much 3D either in real life or in a 3D movie. If the blurry eye can't discern and process the detail from the lens angle, you will end up seeing shuttered 2D. I verified this several times last week. Open and shut the blurry eye, no difference to what I saw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

1. No effect. Only the projector's brightness/contrast will be different.
2. No.
3. No difference.
4. Parallax setting does influence perceived 3D depth. It is safe to assume not all projectors have this setting.
What's really important for 3D perception are the following factors:
1) Like for 2D image - contrast, gamma, color. The image behind the glasses will be more real if the projector is calibrated in 3D to a standard it was mastered for (Rec.709 for HD content).
2) Image size
3) Viewing distance
4) Pixel grid visibility (screen door effect)
5) Motion properties of the projector
6) Flickering of shutterglasses
7) Amount of ghosting
DLP projectors are the current king of 3D, imo.

Thanks Elix for the point by point answer.

Next :
Motion and fliker is clear to me but:
1- What happens when you get to the perceived 3d if you get nearer to screen
2- What about LCOS LCD 2d black level advantage in 3 d over dlp ; does light reduction by couloured glasses make dlp blacks come near to LCOS or LCD blacks. ( if we turn it around , does LCOS LCD blacks make them look even nicer or too dark )
3- What is realy more potentialy distubing RBE or Crosstalk ?
4- Apart dlp advantage in motion , fliker etc which one of those looks subjectively better in 3d (more realistic more wow something (even if subjectivity varies from one person to onother )

Mark : I hope the best for your comming operation

I wish you all a happy 2013.
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post #5 of 6
1/2/13 at 12:09pm
This is all very subjective. All factors contribute to the nice 3D picture and sometimes one factor wins for one person at that time. For example, one can be WOWed by the combination of Sony HW50's good contrast and colors (when properly calibrated behind the glasses), Reality Creation and frame interpolation functions in 3D but then one starts to notice flickering and ghosting. Unfortunately, every commercial projector technology nowadays is a trade-off. You choose what is more important for you. So I suggest you to go and compare and let your eyes choose.

As to your questions:

1. There is a sweet spot for immersiveness (feeling of being there) and realism. If you get too close to the screen you start noticing lack of detail and pixel grid and the feeling of realism vanishes. When you sit too far you will lose the feeling of being there. With the current sources (1080p) you'll have to sit pretty far from the screen to get that sweet spot (search ITE/EBU recommendations for viewing distances. Also read this topic http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428686/8k-by-4k-or-octo-hd-the-real-suhdtv-technology). That is not only because the lack of resolution. My theory is that for 2D image one must see most of the image simultaneously to be able to transform it to 3D in one's brain without much strain (not neck strain, but that too). For 3D you don't have to see the whole image - stereo depth is already there. So for 3D it is actually better for the image to take up 100% of the view... Would be if there were more detail in the picture and no pixels were visible. But I believe that will be improved in the nearest future. Actually, this might just be the first step http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436473/first-active-projector-screen
Edited by Elix - 1/2/13 at 12:27pm
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post #6 of 6
1/4/13 at 7:56am
Thread Starter 
Brain tranforme real world image to 3d
- Binocular vision (2 eyes) is what give depth perception
- This mecanism is helped if the targeted object (or you) are in movement over a more stable far away background
- Persons with one eye left will compensate by limited head mouvement
- The bigger is the distance between observed object and backgroud the more you will feel the depth
- In protrait 2d photography , photographes will do shallow depth of field by in order to blurr the background producing a more 3d preception.
- I still have myy pany ptax 100 and project on a big picture (3.2m wide , head position at 4 m is in the exact center of the screen). This gives me already a 3d like imersive experience of moving objects and even if I focus on one small part in the center of th image (central vision of retina) I can still see undeltailed background (peripheral vision) that helps my mind make it look like 3d.
- I dont know much about 3d on a big screen yet, but I feel that below a cetain size (rather angle of view) , you won’t feel what real imersion is , unless your room is black and light controlled so that all that is hanging on your wall won’t intrude and distranc your imersion (peripheral vision).

- I think that these « installation » considerations are as important as the choice of a good projector. and should figure somwhere to help peaple understand this beacause its a big factor of successfulll experience.
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