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"The Official Yamaha RX-V773 Thread" - Page 6

post #151 of 879
You probably already know this but it is suggested that if you want to turn up the sub volume you should do it in the avr. Not the subs. Seems kinda obvious with 2 subs especially but...
post #152 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You probably already know this but it is suggested that if you want to turn up the sub volume you should do it in the avr. Not the subs. Seems kinda obvious with 2 subs especially but...

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Saves moving a chair. biggrin.gif

I just looked and YPAO had the bass crossover set at 60hz, so apparently YPAO successfully "saw" the 8" woofers in the mains.

Based on your suggestions, I'm trying it right now with mains on large and extra bass turned on. I noticed that the sub icon text was "off" with mains on "large" but went to "on" with extra bass turned on confirming what you said about that.

Fluance claims the mains are good down to 45hz, however, I've read that speaker hawkers frequently exaggerate a bit on this. And the choices are between 40 and 60, so I'll probably not set xover below 60 though I clearly may go higher if it sounds better or if I think I'm hearing distortion from the 8" woofers.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/11/13 at 12:56pm
post #153 of 879
Extra bass On means that it will send the low frequencies to both the fronts and subs. So when you set the fronts to large and EB was off only the fronts were getting low freqs until you turned EB On and then it sent low freq to both fronts and subs. If you set the fronts to small you will notice that the EB will not be an option anymore. Because the subs is the only place to send the low freqs at that point.
post #154 of 879
MMichael, Too late and too tired to go into all that you provided, but I certainly enjoyed reading about your experience. I got everything re-wired to the A820 today including my Zone2 (deck) and the ethernet from my den (really use only wifi now) and also ran YPAO. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! As you said. I don't much care anymore whether the A820 or the Lex and amps is better. I'm loving this AVR and setup. Incredible clarity once the calibration was done.

I did the YPAO with multi-position (4) and had no difficulties. To my ears, the side seats seem to have much better surround effect than I got with my old Lex. I still want to play with the subs some more, but since I can feel the lows vibrating my overstuffed sofa, I think it's pretty good as is. rolleyes.gif

Where have I missed this "Extra Bass"? YPAO actually set all my speakers to Large except my fronts (which are actually the largest). But I think the fronts is because they have built-in powered subs, so it only picked up the midrange and tweeters.)

Like you, MM, I'm VERY happy with my A820 and how YPAO has initially set up my speakers. And I'm very happy that there are so many ways I might look into improving the experience still more (though I can't imagine how).

Final note -- it was very cool being able to turn the Zone2 on from outside with my Nexus tablet and the Yamaha app. biggrin.gif

Rich
post #155 of 879
Looking at the 773 open box on Newegg. Does anyone know if it comes with any kind of warranty. The site says nothing. Also, is 4 bills a good price?
post #156 of 879
Hi, Rich.

I'm very glad you got your 820 set up and have had a favorable experience with it so far - like i have.

I hear ya' about functionality. I don't have a tablet or iPhone or iPad. I do have a PS Vita, but I haven't looked into whether that could take on wireless control or not. Of course, I give up Zone 2 due to using the 7.1 +2 feature, but ya' know. Always looking.

Best wishes,

mm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post

Looking at the 773 open box on Newegg. Does anyone know if it comes with any kind of warranty. The site says nothing. Also, is 4 bills a good price?

Opinions may vary on this. Some believe most open box AVR's were returned due to defects and will have to be returned again or will have to have repairs. Looking at customer feedback for all electronics, I'm unable to deny this. I can't prove it, either.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/18/13 at 2:00pm
post #157 of 879
Thanks MM, your input is truly appreciated. Probably smart to call newegg directly before I pull the trigger.
post #158 of 879
YW. I hope you end up with a great deal on a 773.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/18/13 at 2:00pm
post #159 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post

Thanks MM, your input is truly appreciated. Probably smart to call newegg directly before I pull the trigger.
+1 That is a great price. Buy it. Very unlikely Newegg will sell you a defective unit on purpose. Test it hard while within your return period. The Yamaha warranty will be honored. Enjoy!
post #160 of 879
A820 backup glitch (or is it?) - not sure if this applies to the 773's or not. Likewise, not sure if all 820's will do this:

When backing up the A820 via PC web browser:

It gives the warning that backing up turns on all zones, so I should have paid closer attention.

What it does do for certain on my 820: Back up turns on zone 2 every time and leaves it turned on after the backup process. Emphasis added, this is repeatable every single time backup is done.

Why I noticed this: With zone 2 turned on, my RCX4 "smart power strip" with 820 on master/control plug in, the smart strip refuses to turn off attached components when the 820 is turned off.

It did this with a previous RCX6 power strip and also with another secondary RCX4 power strip tested. So: I infer that with Zone 2 turned on, the 820 may or may not draw enough power with the main switched to "standby" that the "smart" power strip can't switch reliably. And that is regardless of various calibrations tried on the 3 smart strips.

Wish I'd have known that before I returned the RCX6 power strip because it was actually pretty nice.

I have an Ideal-Lume bias lamp and a front sub being switched by this smart strip. Due to the lamp, I can immediately tell if the smart strip is switching properly or not.

How I quickly turn zone 2 back to "standby" when it is left ON after backing up the AVR: Push the slide switch on the remote from "Main" to "Zone 2". Depress the power button in the upper right of the remote. The Zone 2 light on the AVR goes out. I believe it will probably stay out until the next backup. Push the slide switch from "Zone 2" back to "Main".

I don't know if the above proves there is significant "vampire loss" when the unit appears to be on standby with zone 2 left on (due to backup) or not. I suspect it at least suggests this.

I do know: At least on my A820, with zone 2 switched back to standby, triggering main from on to standby and vice-versa seems to have my smart strips switching very reliably.

If, after you switch your AVR's main to standby and after, it appears to switch off but there is still a small red light on near mid/upper display, grab your reading glasses 'cause it is a tiny icon that says "zone 2". You may or may not want to put that in standby as well.

Maybe somebody with a 'Kill-a-Watt' can confirm if the current draw is enough to matter or not? In any case, it is enough current draw to befuddle 3 of my smart strips.

fwiw


edit: If I'm missing something here, suggestions welcomed as always.

2nd edit: I just checked "Function: Trigger Output - Target Zone". Settings are "Main", "Zone2" or "All". It appears to be set to all. Trying another backup now to see if this setting is corrupted by backing up... Interesting, but looking at TV display, it sill says it should trigger ALL, not just main. However, the PC GUI clearly shows zone 2 turned ON. Click the button in the PC GUI and it easily turns zone 2 off.

So I'll just have to remember to do that.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/12/13 at 1:52am
post #161 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlife View Post

MMichael,
...
Where have I missed this "Extra Bass"? YPAO actually set all my speakers to Large except my fronts (which are actually the largest). But I think the fronts is because they have built-in powered subs, so it only picked up the midrange and tweeters.)
...
Rich

Ah ha! Having first run the Auto Setup last night, I didn't move on to the Manual Setup. So today I moved a few things back into place in my listening room and re-ran YPAO -- just minor change. However, then I tried another wiring configuration of my OM-6s (removed the sub input which for some reason the sales guy told me not to use back 16 yrs ago -- something about getting better bass if I let the Lex manage it). With that change, the A820 was also free to manage the fronts and indeed found them to be Large. And found a little fuller bass also. So THEN I went into the Manual config and tried messing around and found the Extra Bass. Well, Extra Bass really didn't affect anything. I guess I have about all the bass you can coax out of this system. My fronts and back surrounds are large with powered subs in addition to the separate Titan sub, so I think YPAO has nailed it at this point. I set the Titan to 0 and have this thundering orchestra (Beethoven's Fifth just came on) with continued brilliant clarity across the sound range.

Since I was a little confused at first, I want to be more explicit than the instructions I saw for Setup in various threads here -- hopefully, if I'm wrong, someone will correct me. Maybe some others new to the Yamahas will benefit. It looks like the thing to do is get speakers and components connected, then run YPAO from Auto Setup, then go into Manual Setup and reset subs to 0 and speakers to an appropriate size. I know many are saying to set all speakers to Small, but that doesn't really change my sound. I instead set them to what they are (Large front and back, small center, small side surrounds). That doesn't really produce audible change (to me) which leads me to conclude that the A820 is using the speakers as best can be. Thoughts?

MMichael, hope your presence speakers are doing well for you. My fronts are towers about 52" high. They fill my end wall (18x8' with a sloping ceiling that directs sound to me) with music -- it sounds like the orchestra is in here. So no issues with movie presence when the surround processor has control. (I'm listening to Beethoven in 2-channel. Hmm, now would be a good time to compare 2-channel vs. Straight vs. Pure Direct whatever they are. I need to read more also.)

Ok, a few minutes later, it seems that Pure Direct cuts the bass off at the knees. Doesn't seem to be much if any difference between 2-channel and Straight. I kept trying to imagine that 2-channel produced a wider sound field, but more attention to the detail says no. And if 2-channel and Straight are the same, then why have both?

Rich
post #162 of 879
The reason for 2 channel and straight is because if you are listening to 5.1 then straight will do no processing to it. You are only comparing them in 2.1.
What is the sub volume in your avr? What xover in avr and sub? What kind of subs do you have?
Pure direct is cutting the bass off at the knees because that is the difference between 2.0 and 2.1. 2 channel music has no subwoofer channel built in. Sounds like your speakers just dont do well with bass.
What do you mean you removed the sub input?
Edited by Bond 007 - 6/12/13 at 3:30pm
post #163 of 879
Hi, Rich.

Sorry for the late reply. Was down the mountain for allergy shots, etc.

Not sure why, but YPAO configured every single speaker I have as "Large". I did the manual setup afterwards and I'm now running only the mains as large with extra bass turned on to keep the subs working. I thought bass would be overdriven like this, but it is not.

Much of what is missing in "on screen" and "setup" is over under the "options" button.

However, "extra bass" is actually over under setup like this:

On screen - setup - manual setup - configuration - then scroll down to "extra bass". Interesting to note: When I went there just now, the subwoofer icon does NOT say on until I scroll down to "extra bass". Only then does the word "on" appear above the sub icon. Likewise, the icons for the front presence speakers don't say on or small or large until scrolling to and clicking on "front presence". The icons still say nothing for those, but the menu choice of "use" is selected. The only other option on that is "none", so I'm guessing these are setup as small speakers but can't say for sure.

I don't know where you're at on YPAO. As for me, since it worked so well on the first shot, it boosted my confidence in using it. So I'm looking at trying some things Bond suggested. Additionally, not sure why I missed this, but there was a stack of cardboard speaker boxes in the living room. And I want to move a secondary recliner to a different location. I'll also be swapping my Klipsch RB-41 II surround speakers for a pair of the Fluance bipolar wide dispersion surrounds. I bought those at a super low intro price, so had to wait a month 'til they ship. Should be soon...

Anyway, once the new pair of surround speakers arrive and I get the room squared away on some things that could change acoustics, I'll be experimenting with YPAO some more just as you said to see if there is yet more to be had.



mm
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/12/13 at 6:01pm
post #164 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

The reason for 2 channel and straight is because if you are listening to 5.1 then straight will do no processing to it. You are only comparing them in 2.1.
What is the sub volume in your avr? What xover in avr and sub? What kind of subs do you have?
Pure direct is cutting the bass off at the knees because that is the difference between 2.0 and 2.1. 2 channel music has no subwoofer channel built in. Sounds like your speakers just dont do well with bass.
What do you mean you removed the sub input?

Bond, This post is somewhat confusing to me. And I don't think you've read my posts as I've already answered most of your questions.

Granted, I haven't finished reading the owners manual yet, but I just plain don't understand your answers. First of all, I've said that my setup is 7.1 (not 5.1). But I listen to music with setting that the A820 defines as 2-channel. That means "fronts plus sub" according to the A820 documentation. So I'm asking about "2-channel" (fronts plus sub) vs. "Straight". And there again, I don't understand what you mean by your response about Pure Direct. Perhaps you mean that Pure Direct is 2.0 -- no external sub? That would mean that I could get the same effect by just turning off the external subs, but if I do that I get only slight reduction in bass -- not the "cut off at the knees" effect.

As for your specific questions, my external sub(s) are ACI Titans (just one in this current config). As I said, the sub volume is set for 0. The xover I didn't give, but that's set for 60Hz. I plan to change that to 80Hz because that is the fixed crossover point for the internal subs of my fronts. I've also said that I have six subs total (though one Titan is not in the system as it requires repair -- so make that 5 subs). My front speakers are Mirage OM-6s. These have built-in powered, 150W subs. To suggest that they don't do well with bass is basically ridiculous ( http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1197mirage/ ). For my back speakers, I have Mirage FR-9s -- again with powered subs. My sides and center Mirage speakers are matched to the others.

About your question on "removed the sub input", the review of the OM-6s mentions that they have two methods to provide input to the subs -- one is a line-level input and the other taps off the speaker inputs (I use these and the center with bi-wire input). I removed the line-level input in favor of the speaker input tap because it provides better bass (as the guy who sold them to me said). (Incidentally, I originally bought all my equipment at Audio Advice in Raleigh, NC. I have no problems giving them a great plug as they are very knowledgeable and provide unparalleled service. But 15 years later, I'm not trying to suck them dry.)

Rich
post #165 of 879
That is some very nice equipment.
Sometimes Im helping 15 people at a time and it can get confusing. Sorry.
I dont see an obvious question in your post so I dont know what else to say.
post #166 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

That is some very nice equipment.
Sometimes Im helping 15 people at a time and it can get confusing. Sorry.
I dont see an obvious question in your post so I dont know what else to say.

Yes -- I've been very happy with it for the last 16 years. smile.gif

I appreciate all the help you give -- your focus on this thread was one reason I posted here.

In my turn, I'm sorry I wasn't clear about my question -- in trying to clarify between us, I probably foobar'd. Here they are again:

-- So I'm asking about "2-channel" (fronts plus sub) vs. "Straight".

-- Perhaps you mean that Pure Direct is 2.0 -- no external sub?

I pulled these out of my second paragraph above -- you may want to check context again.

If you have any thoughts on how I might best connect my variety of subs, please don't hesitate. I'll be happy to try any suggestions -- and I can provide the details about this very awkward (but acoustically fine) room I have. I designed my house, so this room was built as it is for the express purpose of being my listening room. Lots of thought went into the room because it is my living room and it is a key part of the passive solar design of the house. I did lots of things most people would say, "Oh no! That's BAD!" (Concrete floors...!?) But it worked!) Or is there a better thread to ask these questions?

And btw, Bond, is that an angry-looking Alaskan Malamute in your avatar? Looks much like my Sundance when he got pissed. He was the 110 lb. Malamute I had before the Affenpinscher in my current avatar (Dante). But don't be misled -- Dante has every bit of the spirit and personality of Sundance. (Little bas----!) biggrin.gif

Rich
post #167 of 879
lol That is a wild wolf that is straight pissed off. Nothing I would want to have as a pet.

2 channel stereo will include subwoofers but play the fronts only even if its a 5.1 signal.

Straight will include subs and provide 2.1 if its 2.0, 5.1 if its 5.1. It provides no surround processing like the DSP modes (Standard, Sci fi, Chamber, Cellar Club, etc).

Pure Direct mode provides NO processing at all. Hence, its name. It bypasses everything and only amplifies the given signal. Since 2.0 music contains no LFE signal (Low Frequency Effect or better known as .1), it will provide no signal to the subs because that would be considered an enhancement and would require processing. PD mode is provided for the audiophile that wants to hear music exactly as it was recorded. No YPAO settings or anything else is applied.

Hope this helps. smile.gif
post #168 of 879
Got it on the audio stuff. Yes, thanks much, that helps a lot. Exactly what I was looking for.

As far as the wolf, seriously, it looks like my dog, Sundance. I once got temporarily stupid with him and ended up in the emergency room, so I can attest to the look up close and personal. I had just broken up a fight with my other dog and foolishly thought it would be "good" to insist that Sundance obey me and "sit". I forgot how dogs have a very real "attack" threshold -- their brain gets locked in a mode and it takes a bit for the hormones to subside. When I pushed him, I sent him back over that threshold and he responded in a natural way -- 110 lbs. launched itself at me with a ferocity that can only be understood if it happens. Look at your avatar. In what seemed like less than a second, I had a bite in the leg and the end of my thumb was hanging loose. All was fine after I got stitched up, but I did have to quarantine him for 10 days because the ER had to report the dog bite. Sometimes we learn the hard way. Sadly, he died from bloat a few months later. That's when I got Dante.

Rich
post #169 of 879
post #170 of 879
I am new to the AVS forum and hope this is the appropriate thread.
I am in the process of setting up my RX-V773 and I have a set of Zone 2 speakers. The speakers are lacking any bass, as if the receiver thinks its the rear speakers, and not a full range second zone. I have the receiver set up as 5.1 +Zone2 and have no control over the equalization of Zone 2. None of the settings I have tried have any effect, there seams to be no way to increase the bass. I have tried my 20 year old Pioneer receiver and the speakers sound fine. My source is net radio and MP3 files off my NAS drive. When I play this through Zone 1 it sounds fine, although I did boost the base about 2db over the automatic calibration. Has anyone encountered this problem, am I just missing something obvious? Any feedback would be much appreciated.
post #171 of 879
Got in on the Newegg A820 deal for $465!
Now for a question, the YPAO instructions in the manual say to turn the sub crossover frequency to max before running setup.
Should it be left at max after setup is complete, or will the YPAO give some indication on what it should be set at?

post #172 of 879
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by poobbubes View Post

Got in on the Newegg A820 deal for $465!
Now for a question, the YPAO instructions in the manual say to turn the sub crossover frequency to max before running setup.
Should it be left at max after setup is complete, or will the YPAO give some indication on what it should be set at?


Leave crossover on max and volume at about the halfway mark.
post #173 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by poobbubes View Post

Got in on the Newegg A820 deal for $465!
Now for a question, the YPAO instructions in the manual say to turn the sub crossover frequency to max before running setup.
Should it be left at max after setup is complete, or will the YPAO give some indication on what it should be set at?


Leave it at MAX even after YPAO setup is complete.
post #174 of 879
Ok, one other question: I will have to place my front Energy Take Classic speakers upside down to mount to my speaker stands. Should I also turn the back speakers over for consistency, or leave them upright? I know it probably doesn't matter, but I thought I would ask.
post #175 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by poobbubes View Post

Got in on the Newegg A820 deal for $465!
Now for a question, the YPAO instructions in the manual say to turn the sub crossover frequency to max before running setup.
Should it be left at max after setup is complete, or will the YPAO give some indication on what it should be set at?


Wow, killer deal! Also, from what I've read, the sub xover should be left set to max.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poobbubes View Post

Ok, one other question: I will have to place my front Energy Take Classic speakers upside down to mount to my speaker stands. Should I also turn the back speakers over for consistency, or leave them upright? I know it probably doesn't matter, but I thought I would ask.

My understanding is that the height of the tweeters establishes the height of the "sound stage". With your front speakers upside down but on speaker stands, does that get the tweeters close to ear height when you are seated in your theater?

I'd leave the rear surrounds with tweets as close to ear height as possible even if the fronts have to be lower.

Opinions will vary; all respected.
post #176 of 879
From what I know, you're definitely right -- best to keep mid-range and especially tweeters at close to ear level. That's why we have "bookshelf" speakers and why towers always have these drivers at the top. Also why stubs and other woofers work well ear the floor.

Rich
post #177 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

With your front speakers upside down but on speaker stands, does that get the tweeters close to ear height when you are seated in your theater?

I'd leave the rear surrounds with tweets as close to ear height as possible even if the fronts have to be lower.

The front speaker stands are adjustable so I can just line up the tweets with my ear level. The back speakers will sit a little higher, so I guess I will turn those over also to get the tweets closer to ear level.
Thanks for the help.
post #178 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by poobbubes View Post

The front speaker stands are adjustable so I can just line up the tweets with my ear level. The back speakers will sit a little higher, so I guess I will turn those over also to get the tweets closer to ear level.
Thanks for the help.

It's usually recommended to have the surround speakers a couple of feet above ear level.
post #179 of 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

It's usually recommended to have the surround speakers a couple of feet above ear level.

With a couple of caveats:

  • You don't really want any surround speaker (tweeter) located at an elevation of more than about 10°-15° above the horizontal plane 'through ear level' at the Main Listening Position.
  • If you want to allow for future addition of height surround speakers on side or rear walls, you should consider that they will probably need to be elevated at least an additional 30° above the corresponding main ("Middle Layer") surround speakers (as viewed from the Main Listening Position) so as to provide adequate separation for 3D sound effects.
_
Edited by SoundChex - 6/17/13 at 7:42am
post #180 of 879
Hi, thought I should ask my question here but if this is the wrong place please let me know.

I have my HTPC connecting via HDMI to my RX-V773 which then outputs to my TV via HDMI. I have noticed that when watching TV or movies from my HTPC that the screen occasionally goes black for 2-3 seconds and then it works again fine. Audio does not cut out when this happens.

Has anyone else experienced this issue, and if so how did you overcome it? I called Yamaha and they weren't helpful - they just blamed the HTPC so I would like some better advice.

Cheers - Scott
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