Velodyn VX-11, Dayton Sub-1200 or Bic f12 - Page 2

Originally Posted by rnconync 

I have messed with a bunch of different sub configs and settle on the setup in one of my earlier posts...I have noticed this issue it seems no matter where I place my subs...which is strange...I don't remember if I have gone back and fully tested these scenes again with the new arrangement...

I have a Yamaha with YPAO, but unfortunately I do not have the mic for setting it up...I borrowed a friends audyssey mic (from what I have read, this is a probably a no-no and wont work right, but I'm working with what I have ) and tried using that and it worked the first time, then I rearranged my room and for some reason the mic wouldn't pick anything up anymore...so I gave it back and resorted to manual setup and measuring and checking SPL's with an SPL meter app on my Android phone (again, I know probably not the best method, but working with what I have)

First, I suggest you set up your system manually. All speakers set to small.
If you have purchased a new VRP sub you should be able to set it up like most subs. (The older versions amp suffer from low input sensitivity and require a bit more gain.) Next, I suggest you use an spl meter. (You can buy them on line or at Radio Shack.) Calibrate the sub in the stereo or direct mode, with the receiver's subwoofer line level output set at O and the crossover control on your receiver to 80HZ. The crossover on the sub should be set all the way up which defeats it. Once all your speakers and sub are balanced using your receiver's test tones, you can adjust the distance settings and them fine tune the AVR's line level output on your receiver to get the best results depending on the source.

1)The sub should always blend well with your mains and it shouldn't sound boomy or localized.

2)When running your receivers test tones, use your spl meter to set the main volume control close to reference which is about 70-75 db, (some receivers like my Pioneer do this automatically) and balance the system according to your receivers manual. (Set the subs gain so it produces the same levels as your mains from the listening position.) Then, set the phase switch to the point where the sub output is the loudest. (With pink noise you should even hear a difference at that level.)

3)Never set the subs gain much higher then 12:O Clock or the line level out to your sub higher then +4 (I have my gain at 9:30 and the receiver's line level at +2, and it's pounding. Now I'm running two subs at 0 or lower.

4)I also recommend using a Y connector to supply signal from your receiver to both inputs. This will help improve the sub's auto on function sensitivity especially on older models.

Originally Posted by rnconync 

Thanks Ian, I appreciate you digging this up.
I will have to try the suggestions. I have not tried setting each sub up individually, I have them both set between the 8 and 9 o'clock position and then ran a test tone using both subs. I do have both hooked up with a y-adapter/splitter as I remember reading in the manual it suggested this for the exact reasons you mentioned, better auto on functionality.

Do you think the SPL meter app on my android phone should be sufficient enough for this as it is all I have access to and budget for at the moment and don't know any other audio geeks that have one I could borrow around here.

Originally Posted by rnconync 

Hmm...That's almost cheap enough to make me get it...I'll have to think on it...thanks again for the input, I'll let you know how it works out.

Originally Posted by rnconync 

Pardon my ignorance, but what are you referring to as the line level output? Is the the DB setting or "speaker level" setting? I usually start with it set to 0 for my adjustments....are you saying it might be better to set it to a negative value and turn up the subs more? I haven't had to go into the positive values to get things loud enough for me yet...

Or are you referring to the LFE level, which is also currently at 0

Originally Posted by rnconync 

I have a Yamaha with YPAO, but unfortunately I do not have the mic for setting it up...I borrowed a friends audyssey mic (from what I have read, this is a probably a no-no and wont work right, but I'm working with what I have )

Originally Posted by rnconync 

I have separate level setting from -10db to +10 db for each speaker including the subwoofer...but if I am at say 9 o'clock on the dial of the subwoofer, even with just one hooked up, I have to go all the way down to -10 to get it to match the level of my other speakers.....and it is still just a bit too much. If I ditch the y-adapter and run a single cable in, then I get lower output from the sub and can set it that way only going to around the -5 range for the subwoofer level...

Here is a link to my receiver and there should also be a manual downlaod link there too:
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/htr/htr-5760_black__u/?mode=model

I'm hooked up to the subwoofer port under the pre-out section on the back of the receiver where the manual stats to hook it up (plus there is nowhere else to hook it to)

Originally Posted by rnconync 

I have the energy take classic speakers...
http://www.energy-speakers.com/home-theater-systems/?sku=TK-CLASSIC-5-PACK
Currently most of the mains are already at a + 4 db setting or so...
If I set my receiver volume to 0db and calibrate to about a 75 db level...the mains end up almost maxing out at about +9-10db....last time I did this I did not have the new subs...should I try this again?

Originally Posted by rnconync 

Awesome, thanks cel4145...I was actually googleing around for a mic but was having trouble finding a decently priced one...a lot of the link I found went to the yamaha store which seems not to have it anymore, so that link was very helpful...

Step 1: Subwoofer placement. Make sure that the distance from each sub to the primary listening spot is exactly the same. This is because Audyssey calculates distance for only one subwoofer, and if the distance to the two subwoofers is significantly different, the sub delay setting will not produce optimal results. (Unfortunately, this places a severe restriction on where the subs can be placed in most listening rooms. Many experts recommend moving the subs around to achieve the best bass response, but it two subs are used, Audyssey calibration will not be optimal unless the subs are exactly the same distance from the listener.)

Step 2: Setting the subwoofer levels. Since the acoustic characteristics of the room are likely to be somewhat different for each of the subwoofers because they are in different locations, it’s important to set the volume level for each subwoofer to achieve roughly the same volume at the primary listening spot. This is accomplished as follows:
1. Place a Radio Shack sound pressure meter at the primary listening spot.
2. In the AV receiver setup menu, select Speaker Config/Channel Level, and generate a tone for the subwoofer.
3. Adjust the audio output levels on each subwoofer to achieve the same level at the primary listening spot, as shown on the SPL.
Note: at this point we don’t know if the volume levels on the subs are the correct levels-we only know that the settings produce a balanced output. The next step will determine if the volume settings are too high, too low, or just right.

Step 3: Using Audyssey to determine the initial subwoofer volume setting. Do the following:
1. Run the Audyssey calibration with the microphone in the primary listening spot.
2. After one iteration of the test tones, go ahead and select “calculate”.
3. After the calculation completes, examine the resulting speaker levels.
4. Note the level setting for the subwoofer. If the setting reduces the subwoofer output over 5db (e.g. -8db or -9db), then the subwoofer volume setting is too high. If the setting boosts the subwoofer output by more than 5db (e.g. +8db or +9db), then the subwoofer volume is set too low. The ideal result is to have Audyssey set the subwoofer volume in the +/- 1db to 2db range. Why? Because this allows the greatest flexibility to tweak the subwoofer levels after the Audyssey calibration has completed.
5. If the level setting is too high or too low, cancel the Audyssey calibration, and repeat Steps 2 and 3 until the subwoofer level falls into the +/- 1db to 2db range.

Step 3: Complete the Audyssey calibration. Make sure to use all eight microphone positions!

Step 4: Inspect the resulting speaker configurations after the calibration has completed and make any changes according to your preferences.
1. It is recommended to set all speakers to “small”.
2. Adjust the crossover frequencies for each speaker according to your preferences (e.g. 80 Hz). This does not affect the Audyssey calibration.
3. Set the Audyssey Dynamic Volume for each input according to your preference (e.g. Dynamic Volume “on”, setting “Day”).

Step 5: Test the results! You should hear tight bass integrated seamlessly with your other speakers.

Originally Posted by rnconync 

Thanks again, I am not sure why I am having these issues...I even reset my receiver to its factory defaults and started the setup again,but get mostly the same results...I am just using the test tones that my receiver generates to do this. Things seem a little better now that I have recalibrated at the 75 db level again...I am able to dial the subs up a hair more, but my speakers are still way in the positive levels and the sub in the negative levels (around +9 for speakers and -8 for the sub). Things sound tighter, but the settings seem to be at their extremes....and it sounds like this is not the norm. I will test again tonight or sometime soon with a regular spl meter rather than the one on my phone and see how the results vary.....

Originally Posted by Bond 007 

Might look like hell on a graph but who cares. I've had lots of people tell me my system sounds great.