[B]*PLEASE HELP ME*[/B] SVS PB-13 Ultra {OR} Rythmik FV15HP Subwoofer {Experiences, Opinion,... - Page 3

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Be nice.

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Personally, at these prices, I'd recommend a pair of PSA, XS30's over the OP's question regarding: "...SVS PB-13 Ultra {13.5"} & The Rythmik FV15HP {15"} Subwoofers."

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Ouch! Thems fightin' words.

Beeman, here's a good thread for you:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1445870/is-reference-level-loud-to-you

 

Personally, I like to run my subs +7db hot, and I typically watch movies at -10db (wife limited; I'd probably watch movies between -6 and -3 by myself). Demo's are always at -0db (Reference).

 

So normally, from a sub standpoint, I'm 3db away from reference level bass, but my preference would be hotter than reference level bass for movies.

 

I don't know of many people at all that like to listen to their LCR speakers above reference.

Yes, the poll was insightful as I didn't read the thread itself but I do find myself where sixty-five percent or a full 2/3rds of the polling respondents live. Personally, I'm a +/- 0 to -10 kind of guy and my wife is a -10 to -15 kind of woman, so the compromise is, starting the movie at -15, creeping the volume up to -10 and leaving it there. Now enters the sub question as to what's wanted vs what's needed to get one where they want to go?

My thinking, a pair of top tier SVS, Power Sound, Hsu, Epik and Rythmik subs will float anybody's boat and if one wants more, then arguably, stuffing four subs into the room or stepping up and buying SubMersive and Funk come to mind as in the end, it's all about the "Benjamins", WAF and the size of the room being filled with sound.

Thanks for the response. More and more it's coming down to defining the esoteric psychological workings of subwoofers on the human mind and the affect they have on each individual's psychic. I haven't fully formulated the thought in my head, but slowly I'm wrapping my thinking around a pithy answer to the question; how much subwoofer and how loud in dB's does one considered rational behavior.

So far, my opinion, it boils down to being able to reach +5 without effort, limited distortion and smooth bass at all listening positions. Without condemnation, anything more and it becomes about ego as opposed to necessity. Anything more and it then becomes about the smile/fun factor and bragging rights. That's what I like to call a fly-by opinion.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/6/13 at 6:51am

Maybe that's a bit aggressive--I probably shouldn't take that kind of tack. It's just that I'd hate to see somebody get bent out of shape just because there is a new subwoofer flavor of the year. I mean, mobile phones, home computers, game systems, televisions... it's the way of these things, am I wrong? AM I WRONG?

Nope, you are not wrong at all with the fact that fads change but you are wrong in trying to tie what I was saying to what I have personally chose to purchase.

I've changed my mind. I'm going with the XS-30. That was my choice before but I had thought they were out of stock til mid Feb. I was wrong. Trigger pulled. It will be a little easier on my poor man budget. Now I'll be able to buy some top ramen.
Edited by XStanleyX - 1/6/13 at 10:17am

Peanut butter on toast goes good with ramen. Just sayin...

That's what you get for comparing a Ferrari to a cheap car.

Yeck!!

Dang it, Stanley. I swear you do that on purpose.


Sorry to hear about your personal situation. That's certainly more important than a sub.

If you are still undecided, have you watched the sub shootout done here on the forums? Can't find the link anymore!

Jeff

(In my below, I'm not bagging on the poster, who's post I'm responding to. I'm posting what my personal observations were.)

You'll have to forgive me but IMO, after several tries at listening to the posted online shootout results with quality headphones and top of the line soundcard, all I heard was over-bloated sound (distortion) as in "You're kidding!" What I listened to was all about how loud and had nothing to do with quality of sound which made the YouTube posted results, in my opinion, invalid examples for the purpose of demonstrable listening examples. And yes, everybody looked like they were having a great time.

The posted results came across as being all about sound levels (how loud) and had nothing to do with musicality or quality of sound; lack of distortion or attempts to adhere to THX standards. And before folks try to cut me out of the herd for committing acts of blasphemy for not being suitably impressed, find and listen to the YouTube results and draw your own conclusion as to the accuracy of my comments.

If bloated sound is all one is after, then they'll be suitably impressed with the posted "YouTube" results.

(And yes, I'm down with the "WOW!" or "fun" factor.)

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/7/13 at 5:24am

I watched the video and of course there's no way my PC speakers could replicate the sound any more than a pair of headphones. It was what it was. The info I paid most attention to was what they had to say in the forums here.
Wish I had been there to actually hear it in person. In the end I didn't choose any of the subs in the shootout but there are a couple I woulda if I coulda.
Edited by XStanleyX - 1/7/13 at 6:22am

This may be what you're looking for: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434901/northeast-october-20th-gtg-results-thread
There are links in that thread.

FWIW, quality headphones and soundcards have the ability to go down low. The distortion was pronounced and undeniable and that's what I'm commenting on. Once a driver is driven to obvious distortion levels, then at that point, all that's being amplified is more distortion or noise. In my opinion, a valid demonstration of the prowess of a driver is to take it to a level just below noticeable distortion and call it good. There's no point in over-driving a driver.

Car and engines are popular analogies and driving a subwoofer driver to noticeable levels of distortion is like bragging on an engine that's reached the max capacity of it's carburetor. The point, my opinion, once max carburetor capacity is reached, then shut it down as the max of an engine's power curve has been reached; same-same.

I'm not bagging on any presenter and I'm not commenting on any particular subwoofer. I'm simply commenting that the result videos were of max distortion as opposed to max sound quality. And considering how much effort folks put forth placing their subs and measuring their rooms, this is an important topic; the validity of quality demonstrated sound reproduction.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/7/13 at 6:41am

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought part of the test was taking them to their limits and beyond. They certainly did that.

How would listening through your headphones tell you anything about the sound of the subs in the room? All you did was find the limits of your system.

BTW, your headphones cannot reproduce bass anywhere near the levels the subs in the test can.

For what purpose? Seeing who can generate the most distortion? The point of my comment was to raise awareness that in my opinion, the videos do not represent quality sound but instead, represent maximum distortion levels and are poor examples of sound quality. I thought all of us were about quality sound. If I'm wrong and it's about who can generate the most distortion, then consider me corrected.

A suggestion would be for some here to post YouTube examples of quality sound as opposed to examples of distorted sound.

Using a singer's voice as an example, one posts lilting sounds as an example, not caterwauling (distortion) as good examples of the human voice in song.

The above example is compressed garbage where due to digital compression, the depth of space has been removed but makes the point regarding quality vs distortion.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/7/13 at 7:01am

They took them to their limits to see where they choked. Of course you're going to have distortion when you reach those limits.

I don't recall them being represented as quality sound. As I posted, if these videos are nothing more than examples of distortion, they succeeded. I still have a niggle which is what the OP posted that I was responding to:


Note the mention of sound quality during music playback and digging deep for movies and nothing about how much distortion can be produced? Maybe someone can enlighten me regarding the benefit of knowing beyond graphic test data, how much distortion a subwoofer can physically produce.

In my way of thinking, spinning tires represent failure of the tire to grip the surface, not the success of the engine to overcome frictional forces and I consider distortion to be a failure of the emitter to reproduce quality sound. Where am I going wrong in my thinking?

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/7/13 at 7:14am

Well I guess they won't be winning an Oscar for that video.

The link I provided goes into more detail as to what those guys thought of the sound quality.

Putting my money where my mouth is, I have a pair of subs that are old, worn and test like garbage. My nefarious plans are to replace the driver and measure the results to see what sort of sound quality change can be measured. Yes, I'm aware that doing so kicks over a huge acoustic can full of sonic worms but that's the nature of an autodidact's education for you.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/7/13 at 9:29am

The Captivator variants (all of them) and the Submersives are the heavy hitters in the Sub ID world. Bottom line if you're looking for the best and can afford it, look no further.

If you have a heavy movie bias, it's hard to beat the raw output and capability of the Caps for the dollar.

If you're into music and/or deep extension, the Submersive is your man.

Really though, either of these choices are fantastic. I've heard both and have been blown away on every occasion. The SVS and Rythmik are great subs too, but in a different league. These are my opinions of course but seems to be the general consensus for those who have heard them.

If you can afford multiples, there are undeniable advantages to running either of these in pairs look smoothed frequency response across multiple listening positions, and of course, more output.

I've had Outlaw subs in the past, along with Paradigm, Polk, etc. I've currently got a pair of gloss PB-13 Ultras in my living room (13'w x 25'd x 10'h, totally open at back to two story tall great room). When I had the pair of Outlwaw LFM-1 EX's I thought I was in bass heaven and it was great. Then I unloaded those and went to a single SVS Ultra and it was a whole 'nuther league. I immediately went with a 2nd Ultra at the wife's urging to "balance" the look of the room. So my room is an unsealed 3250cu.ft. and I have no problems pressurizing it with deep, pant flapping bass with the subs up front (not near me). Walls shake, windows rattle, and friends say they've never experienced anything like that in a home theater. So, get enough air movement in a capable sub (SVS Ultra, SubM, Rythmic, etc.) with proper room placement and it'll impress.

Now, beyond movies and deep physical bass, I really enjoy music...more than a good movie! I have a system I thoroughly enjoy and took many years to assemble - I feel I've arrived at my audio nirvana. The SVS Ultra subs keep up admirably and blend in wonderfully with my mains. I tinker with various crossover settings and find many suitable settings, hence the subs will do well only playing deep stuff, all the way up to playing nicely if they're crossed over a bit higher up. They don't sound lethargic, bloated, or have that "ported" fat sound people say you avoid with a sealed alignment, at least from what I've heard in my room, with my limited sub sampling. I really enjoy good classical, particularly piano, which can be very revealing with bass notes becoming "boxy" sounding. Not with the Ultras, in my experience.

SVS as a company has stood behind their products as well. I've had one BASH amp die and they sent a Sledge replacement. I've called them on numerous occasions and frequently gotten Ed on the phone to chat with about settings, placement, the weather, etc. Great guys there and a great longstanding company. I remember when a certain other AV123, etc. company was the bees-knees and their sub couldn't be topped for $$$/performance. Now they're gone and many are left stranded with dead sub amps. That's always a hangup I have with newer smaller startups. Not that they don't have great designs, great intentions, or beautiful finishes, I just like to know the company will probably be around if/when I need a 5 year warranty item taken care of. Two of these companies I know of are SVS and Hsu.

I haven't had the opportunity to listen to a SubM, Cap, Funk Audio, etc. and would love to for good comparison. But like some have said, any of these top offerings from these top ID manufacturers will wow you with prodigeous amounts of bass, but also play the subtle stuff quite well, for far less $$$ that it'd take with a "big name" manufacturer.

You guys are kidding about comparing a YouTube video to being there right? Headphones, your systems capabilities etc... of course its distorted. There is nothing high quality about YouTube and all of those videos mean squat except for the fun factor of seeing them. There's no way possible for the mic in the video camera, cell phone or whatever to relay the sound quality of being there. Not even a small chance of comparison.

Yes, the fun factor did come through; loud and clear.