Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How... - Page 47

Ok, I thought when I captured the Camera Picture in the program you can load jpeg? It is not a supported format.

Help?

Duh, finally figured it out how to post these.

Ok, I am sure I messed something up. Let me know your thougths.

Left No Audy


Right No Audy


Center No Audy


Left No Audy Waterfall


Right No Audy Waterfall


Center No Audy Waterfall


Left No Audy Impulse


Right No Audy Impulse


Center No Audy Impulse

Comments:

 

- For frequency sweeps, you should measure 15Hz-20,000Hz.  Your measurements stop at 1.15kHz.

- When using the camera icon for a screen capture, always include at least the Legend, which shows the smoothing you have used.  What is the smoothing for the frequency sweeps?

 

 

- As a starting point, measure Left+Right+Sub(s), once with Audyssy off, and once with Audyssey on.  20-20,000Hz, of course.  Use 1/6 smoothing.  We can always drill down into the individual speakers if necessary.

- Using the same measurement as above, post a graph of just the low frequencies, 20-300Hz, Audysseoff and Audyssey on, no smoothing.  (To see how the bass is doing).

- Then we can try and figure out what is wrong with the waterfalls, which don't look right.

- Forget the ETC graphs for now, we need to look at the basics first.

 

The room looks good, BTW.   More detailed comments after we see the new graphs.

Also, while the pictures are great, do you have a schematic that shows room dimensions, speaker placements, etc?  The pictures are too wide--I can't see if you have subs and where they might be placed.

 

Back in a while.

 

I think you have completely taken leave of your senses, Feri, if you don't mind my saying. I am finding the thread useful each and every day. If you are now finding it useless, just unsubscribe from it and your problem has been solved!

 

Good reality check there, Jerry. And yes, I agree. Just watched Skyfall - amazing.

 

I suggest you read and follow Jerry's Guide for the FR graphs. Towards the back he makes a list of all the essential tests you need to run, with the way to set the limits etc for each type of graph.

 

Brief comment (it is late here and I am tired, but I will comment more tomorrow) - the graphs show more or less what I'd expect from an entirely untreated room - a lot of ringing in the LF and a lot of reflections in the mid and HF. Can we see your Audyssey ON graphs as well so we can see what Audyssey is doing to try to correct the problems?

 

Your FR graph stops at just over 1Khz - we need to see all the way to 20kHz. Are you sure the subs are off for the L, R and C graphs?

 

Can you set the waterfalls to 450 msec too please and not 600? All this is in the Guide BTW.

 

I'm actually re-thinking what the "essential tests" ought to be, and will post my ideas here sometime this weekend.  My thinking is that there should be an initial "profile", which would include a couple of basic measurements to get a feel for whether the listening environment is "pretty good", or in serious need of attention.  Then there would be a set of additional graphs that drill down into various aspects of the room that might need attention.  Seeing a couple of participants post a long list of measurements that don't include the vital ones is a lot of wasted time and effort.

 

The profile could also include pictures, as Feri suggested, as well as a room diagram, and perhaps a basic speaker layout (e.g. 7.1 with two subs).  More thoughts later--I need to enjoy my system for a change.  Watched The Perks of Being a Wallflower yesterday--cute movie, no pyrotechnics.

^^^^Like this idea a lot!

Thanks for the feedback. I did try to follow the guide as best that I can. With axis and smoothing and what not and what tests to run, but as you can see I must have not managed to be consistent across all the measurements.

I am sorry, I picked the first three 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 in my dropdown and was not sure since they are not labeled L/R/C or anything if the sub was engaged as I did not turn it off. So if those first three options in the dropdown include then subs then Keith I guess they are included.

Jerry, I don't have a schematic of my room. I have the Def Tech Mythos ST's L/R and the Mythos 10 center and the Gem XLs for surrounds. I have a Seaton Sub HP. Marantz AV7005 with Emotiva XPA-5 amp along with an Oppo 93 and AS-EQ1. The sub is along the right side wall even with the couch back side and the other speakers I think you can see otherwise.

I will try to take another set of measurements this week, but heading to Asia next weekend for two weeks and not sure if the mad rush before that trip will let me, but if so will post it up.

Again, thank Jerry for the great guide and all others for your feedback. I certainly hope that the Audyssey on graphs will tame their look since overall when I added the AS-EQ1 to the mix the sound is so much better in a WAF room.

I had an AS-EQ1.  It is a great product.  The most important measurement, when you get to it, is the left+righ+sub, Audyssey off and Audyssey on.  If you output the REW signal to the main speakers, the sub will be measured as well.  When I say Audyssey off, I mean the AS-EQ1 off as well.

 

No hurry on the measurements-we will still be here.

 

Good idea Jerry. But may I suggest you also keep the current list. I found that really, really useful as a check list so that I knew I wasn't missing an important measurement that I would then need to go back and do later, maybe setting it all up again.

 

BTW, while I remember, the list I refer to also includes the mode the AVR should be in - stereo being the most used, with advice to set to PLII Cinema for testing the centre channel. Those of us with multichannel HDMI do not need to do this and the mode I use is straight Multichannel on my Onkyo (no DSPs engaged of course - this lights up the indicators for all speakers that can be tested - FR, FL, C, SL, SR, Subs in my case - and simply selecting the correct channel in REW plays the tone through the correct speaker, including the surrounds if required. For the tests on the satellite speakers alone, the subs are of course turned off physically at their power switch. I wonder if that needs to be included in the Guide in the section with the list of tests?

 

 

 

 

Me too. +1 to that!

Holy smokes guys, I just looked at the guide you prepared for this thread and I want to give all of you major props for the work you have done. More than well done fellas!

I have been sitting on the fence on whether to get a USB mic and get into REW again. I do have a XLR mic from my SMS-1 setup, but it does not have a separate calibration file. I think there is a XLR to USB connector, but I don't know if it would provide the power or not. I will probably just order the UMM-6 even though it is almost $100. Heck that doesn't amount to much since if I get into REW I am going to spend much more on room treatments, etc to make the improvements it will suggest.

BTW, I do have a laptop with a HDMI output and a 7.1 sound card.
Edited by RickD1225 - 2/17/13 at 7:21am

Mike, maybe post some screen shots of your Windows config, ASIO setup and REW? this might help others with HDMI spot an issue. I'm only working with the RCA setup currently, but I've got an Asus laptop with HDMI coming on Tues that I'm setting up for a friend. I want to try and get REW working on it so I may have more insight then. Sorry, doesn't really help you now!

Pretty typical problems on long HDMI cables especially when involving the PC. Without proper instrumentation there is no way to know what is wrong. And even with it, no way necessarily to fix it. Likely the situation is dependent also on the processor and even the downstream display.

So here are standard things I try. Set the desktop temporarily to the lowest resolution that is in ATSC spec, i.e. 480p (720x480) or 1080i (not 1080p). See if that works. If it doesn't, then try setting the PC such that *only* the external display is live. That is, don't use "duplicate." These two techniques usually get me a picture. The reason they help is that the former lowers the speed of the signals over HDMI which is very helpful on long cables. The latter works because you don't wind up with non-standard resolutions driving non-PC equipment. Since you are just doing audio testing anyway, it doesn't matter what the video looks like.
Same problem on my laptop. As I noted earlier, using ASIO wrapper on top of Windows drivers and then REW using its own Java ASIO abstraction layer on top of that is a house of cards. If it works you can count yourself lucky . If not, simply use Java. The purpose is to get sound from the mic to the laptop. It matters not what the absolute levels are which this whole USB thing was supposed to remedy.

 

Mike, getting the desktop to display on your monitor is not necessary for REW.  In fact, it can be distracting.  Long HDMI runs can cause all sorts of problems, but it is out of scope for this thread to trouble-shoot them.  I would substitute a short cable to see if the problem goes away.

 

Regarding the USB mic, I just tested it out again on my laptop, so let's walk through it.  When you initially plugged in the USB mic, you should have received a message "loading device drivers", and then "device driver load successful".  In Windows Audio, you should see the USB mic, and it should be selected as the default input device, with level set to 100%.  In Windows Audio, you should also see the HDMI interface as the default output device.

 

Now, when you launch REW, select Java as the interface.  You should see the HDMI interface as an option in the drop-down for Output Device.  And you should see the USB mic as an option in the drop-down for Input Device.  From that point on (assuming you got this far), you can use the Java interface instead of the ASIO interface.  You just won't be able to selectively output to different audio channels.  You get L+R in Stereo mode, and Center in PLII Cinema mode.  Nothing wrong with that.

 

Where is your issue?

 

One more thought:  if you are using the front-panel HDMI jack on the AVR, did you configure that jack as HDMI in the AVR's Input Configuration menu?

I understand now.  You might want to experiment with a special USB cable designed for long runs.

^^^^Well, as you've probably seen in the HW50 thread, several members including myself have resolved long run HDMI cable issues with the Redmere from Monoprice.  I have a 60 ft cable I can try on Tues with the Asus laptop if you don't figure something out before then.

^^^^Just to confirm, when you said "it worked with a short cable" was that just with a short cable between the laptop and AVR?  Did you mean that you got video working with this setup (i.e. projector was outputting laptop video to your screen)?  Also, you said REW was working with your setup but based on your initial problem post, I'm assuming you meant REW works but only with Java?  Just trying to confirm if you still have multiple problems (i.e. video output and multi-ch HDMI setup) or just the video output?

Mike,

I just thought I'd point out a difference between what jkasanic wrote and what you wrote about the cables. He suggested Monoprice Redmere cables. Redmere cables have active electronics built into them to optimally enhance the quality of the HDMI signal for that specific length of cable. 22 gauge High Speed Monoprice cables do not have that electronics, and you can't simply add Redmere cables to the ends of what you currently have.

In other words, he's suggesting that you'll need to pull new cables
Or, of course, get separate, in-line HDMI equalizers.

Hi Mike,

I jave had success with 70-90 foot runs of dual cat5 or dual cat 6, with Vanco baluns, if you already have a pair of those cats in place

Thank you very much

fury