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post #1621 of 2934
2/25/13 at 4:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Off topic question. I'm curious to know if anyone knows how our brain handles sound. I know it kind of takes bits & pieces & creates the noise we hear. I'm trying to apply this to the smoothing that we use. In other words, is 1/6 or 1/3 smoothing comparable to how the human brain will interpret sound?

Yes -  in broad, lay terms, AIUI, 1/6th or 1/3rd smoothing is more representative of what we actually hear. Use no smoothing, or 1/24th smoothing to see what is going on, for adjustment or correction purposes, and 1/6th smoothing (or 1/3rd) to get a better idea of how it will actually sound when you are listening. 

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post #1622 of 2934
2/25/13 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes -  in broad, lay terms, AIUI, 1/6th or 1/3rd smoothing is more representative of what we actually hear. Use no smoothing, or 1/24th smoothing to see what is going on, for adjustment or correction purposes, and 1/6th smoothing (or 1/3rd) to get a better idea of how it will actually sound when you are listening. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Off topic question. I'm curious to know if anyone knows how our brain handles sound. I know it kind of takes bits & pieces & creates the noise we hear. I'm trying to apply this to the smoothing that we use. In other words, is 1/6 or 1/3 smoothing comparable to how the human brain will interpret sound?

Thanks guys for the response. Clears up what I was wondering.
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post #1623 of 2934
2/25/13 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Thanks Keith...I'm really struggling getting HDMI to work.  I think this ASUS laptop that I just got also has a Realtek ASIO driver and I can't seem to get REW to recognize the prepro or mic (it worked yesterday when I did the ASIO4ALL install) even though both are set as default in the sound control panel.  I guess just to make things even more complicated, it is a Windows 8 machine.  HST, once you install the patch to get your start menu back, it feels a lot like Windows 7 under the hood.

I am using an Asus with the ASIO4ALL driver too and it works here, but I am using W7 not 8. If it worked once for you then it can work again I guess. I found I could only get it to work 100% reliably if I followed a strict procedure for cabling up and switching on, which I posted a fe posts back.

 

Keith, I followed your instructions as I also found that to work the most consistent.  There must be something going on in the background because in the middle of fiddling with REW and the ASIO control panel, I lost the DHC-80.3 as an output and the UMM-6 mic became "busy" from another process.  It feels like it worked the first time I tried to set it up because I didn't have any ASIO driver installed. HST, I also confirmed 8 channel support in Windows but only saw 2 channels in the REW dropdown?  I was able to get tones to play through Windows for all 8 channels but they were very faint.  The second time I had to plug the mic in a different USB (you should see the setup I have going from remote AV rack to laptop to mic - not pretty and it boils down to the orientation of the laptop to make everything reach!).  Now I have two different ASIO drivers (Realtek ASIO and ASIO4ALL) to choose from in the REW dropdown but once I lost the mic, I gave up for the day.

 

I certainly have a new appreciation for those struggling with the HDMI part of this as I consider myself an above average Windows troubleshooter and this has me a bit puzzled.  HST, I never really liked how Windows handles HD Audio from a driver perspective.  I'll see if I can get it working tonight and post some findings for those struggling with it as well.  I don't believe Win 8 is a culprit bicbw.

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post #1624 of 2934
2/25/13 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Thanks Keith...I'm really struggling getting HDMI to work.  I think this ASUS laptop that I just got also has a Realtek ASIO driver and I can't seem to get REW to recognize the prepro or mic (it worked yesterday when I did the ASIO4ALL install) even though both are set as default in the sound control panel.  I guess just to make things even more complicated, it is a Windows 8 machine.  HST, once you install the patch to get your start menu back, it feels a lot like Windows 7 under the hood.

I am using an Asus with the ASIO4ALL driver too and it works here, but I am using W7 not 8. If it worked once for you then it can work again I guess. I found I could only get it to work 100% reliably if I followed a strict procedure for cabling up and switching on, which I posted a fe posts back.

 

Keith, I followed your instructions as I also found that to work the most consistent.  There must be something going on in the background because in the middle of fiddling with REW and the ASIO control panel, I lost the DHC-80.3 as an output and the UMM-6 mic became "busy" from another process.  It feels like it worked the first time I tried to set it up because I didn't have any ASIO driver installed. HST, I also confirmed 8 channel support in Windows but only saw 2 channels in the REW dropdown?  I was able to get tones to play through Windows for all 8 channels but they were very faint.  The second time I had to plug the mic in a different USB (you should see the setup I have going from remote AV rack to laptop to mic - not pretty and it boils down to the orientation of the laptop to make everything reach!).  Now I have two different ASIO drivers (Realtek ASIO and ASIO4ALL) to choose from in the REW dropdown but once I lost the mic, I gave up for the day.

 

I certainly have a new appreciation for those struggling with the HDMI part of this as I consider myself an above average Windows troubleshooter and this has me a bit puzzled.  HST, I never really liked how Windows handles HD Audio from a driver perspective.  I'll see if I can get it working tonight and post some findings for those struggling with it as well.  I don't believe Win 8 is a culprit bicbw.

 

Good luck with it Joe!  I suspect that once you have got it working it will then continue to work. Hope so anyway. One advantage I may have is that my Windows laptop is totally 'clean' and only has Audyssey Pro, OmniMic and now REW loaded onto it. That might help at this end - nothing else to 'interfere'.

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post #1625 of 2934
2/25/13 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Good luck with it Joe!  I suspect that once you have got it working it will then continue to work. Hope so anyway. One advantage I may have is that my Windows laptop is totally 'clean' and only has Audyssey Pro, OmniMic and now REW loaded onto it. That might help at this end - nothing else to 'interfere'.

OCD is apparently a helpful prerequisite for using the HDMI input - as in noting the exact configuration that 'works', and hopefully being able to replicate it.

What's a PITA for me is that my default laptop configuration uses the Intel video driver, which works just fine with my external monitor when I have the laptop connected to the monitor(via DisplayPort/HDMI adaptor) and Bluetooth KB and mouse on our desk, where it's my home workstation to remote connect to the office.

To prepare for REW apps, I have to shut the laptop down, power up on battery, and select the Geoforce driver that contols HDMI audio by detecting it on the Screen Resolution menu on the desktop. Only then, after extending display, does Keith's connection sequence work. If I don't do that exact sequence, REW seems to ignore the UMM-6, and my laptop defaults to the Realtek speakers rather than the Denon, which shows as "unplugged". And as soon as that happens, Screen Resolution display defaults back to the mobile laptop.

As for HDMI audio, I wonder if part of the problem for people that aren't getting more than two channels is that apparently you need a video card in your laptop that has HDMI audio surround sound capability. Simply having HDMI connectivity by itself might not be helpful if the card doesn't support 7.1 audio, hence you only get two channels. I think I read on the Dell support forum that certain older laptops (pre-2010) which have ATI graphics cards with HDMI connectivity and stand-alone audio cards or motherboard drivers with suroround sound support need a special kind of cross-connection to enable HDMI audio. At least with Dell, the built-in Intel drivers don't support HDMI audio on the MB as such. In Jerry's case, with an AMD machine, who knows.

Good thing I'm not doing this every day.....
Edited by sdrucker - 2/25/13 at 12:08pm
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post #1626 of 2934
2/25/13 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Good luck with it Joe!  I suspect that once you have got it working it will then continue to work. Hope so anyway. One advantage I may have is that my Windows laptop is totally 'clean' and only has Audyssey Pro, OmniMic and now REW loaded onto it. That might help at this end - nothing else to 'interfere'.

OCD is apparently a helpful prerequisite for using the HDMI input - as in noting the exact configuration that 'works', and hopefully being able to replicate it.

What's a PITA for me is that my default laptop configuration uses the Intel video driver, which works just fine with my external monitor when I have the laptop connected to the monitor(via DisplayPort/HDMI adaptor) and Bluetooth KB and mouse on our desk, where it's my home workstation to remote connect to the office.

To prepare for REW apps, I have to shut the laptop down, power up on battery, and select the Geoforce driver that contols HDMI audio by detecting it on the Screen Resolution menu on the desktop. Only then, after extending display, does Keith's connection sequence work. If I don't do that exact sequence, REW seems to ignore the UMM-6, and my laptop defaults to the Realtek speakers rather than the Denon, which shows as "unplugged". And as soon as that happens, Screen Resolution display defaults back to the mobile laptop.
 

 

One thing I learned when doing my pilot's licence was the value of the written-down pre-flight check. I have used this concept ever since on anything where it is either important to perform every step exactly or to perform them in an exact sequence. So, in my Acoustics ring binder, along with Jerry's fabulous Guide and some other useful stuff, I have a Note To Self that lists the exact sequence of operations required. If I come back to this in a year's time, having not done any measuring in between times, I won't need to try to remember anything or have the frustration of learning over again - I just refer to the pre-flight checklist. I had to do the same with Audyssey Pro too, to be sure to remember to do everything needed (eg to turn off Dynamic EQ, to name just one). My pals laugh and call me anal, but I say, if it's good enough for a NASA astronaut on his way to the Space Station, it's good enough for me ;)

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post #1627 of 2934
2/25/13 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

One thing I learned when doing my pilot's licence was the value of the written-down pre-flight check. I have used this concept ever since on anything where it is either important to perform every step exactly or to perform them in an exact sequence. So, in my Acoustics ring binder, along with Jerry's fabulous Guide and some other useful stuff, I have a Note To Self that lists the exact sequence of operations required. If I come back to this in a year's time, having not done any measuring in between times, I won't need to try to remember anything or have the frustration of learning over again - I just refer to the pre-flight checklist. I had to do the same with Audyssey Pro too, to be sure to remember to do everything needed (eg to turn off Dynamic EQ, to name just one). My pals laugh and call me anal, but I say, if it's good enough for a NASA astronaut on his way to the Space Station, it's good enough for me wink.gif

It almost makes HDMI handshakes look like models of stability....eek.gif
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post #1628 of 2934
2/25/13 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

My pals laugh and call me anal,
How did you earn that nickname?
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post #1629 of 2934
2/25/13 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

One thing I learned when doing my pilot's licence was the value of the written-down pre-flight check. I have used this concept ever since on anything where it is either important to perform every step exactly or to perform them in an exact sequence. So, in my Acoustics ring binder, along with Jerry's fabulous Guide and some other useful stuff, I have a Note To Self that lists the exact sequence of operations required. If I come back to this in a year's time, having not done any measuring in between times, I won't need to try to remember anything or have the frustration of learning over again - I just refer to the pre-flight checklist. I had to do the same with Audyssey Pro too, to be sure to remember to do everything needed (eg to turn off Dynamic EQ, to name just one). My pals laugh and call me anal, but I say, if it's good enough for a NASA astronaut on his way to the Space Station, it's good enough for me wink.gif

It almost makes HDMI handshakes look like models of stability....eek.gif

 

Don't get me started on HDMI.... ;)

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post #1630 of 2934
2/25/13 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

My pals laugh and call me anal,
How did you earn that nickname?

 

Cheeky!!  LOL...

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post #1631 of 2934
2/25/13 at 2:17pm
Hello all,

To add support for UMM-6 in REW I need to know how the Windows input volume setting affects the levels coming from the mic, anyone fancy helping with that? It involves:

- Setting up the mic pointing at and very close to (within a few inches) the midrange unit on a speaker, needs to be on a stand or supported so that it doesn't move during the test
- Opening the Windows Levels control for the mic (e.g. on Win 7/8 Control Panel -> Manage Audio Devices -> Recording Tab -> select the UMM-6 -> properties -> Levels tab)
- Opening the REW signal generator and start it generating a 1kHz sine wave
- Adjusting the AVR and/or REW's signal generator level so that the tone is at a decent level, shouldn't be loud in the room (since the mic is very close to the speaker) but a good level will give a more accurate result for the next part
- Opening the REW SPL meter
- Recording the REW SPL meter dB FS readings from the small figure above the horizontal bar, just below the A/C/Z weighting selector buttons, for as many Windows Level settings as you have the patience to write down, but as a minimum the levels at 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 0.
- The final step is to place an SPL meter exactly where the mic was and record what SPL reading it shows with the sine wave playing from REW at the level used when noting the figures

Ideally I need that info from Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8 as they differ in how they handle level settings. An extra handy bit of info would be the Windows volume control dB readings with the slider at each end of the scale, which can be obtained (on Win 8 at least, I'm guessing Win7 also) by right clicking the volume slider and selecting the decibels option.

Could also do with getting the same info for an Omnimic used on Win 8 (I already have Win 7 data for that).
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post #1632 of 2934
2/25/13 at 2:45pm

John,

 

I might be a candidate for collecting the data for Win7 and Win8, but XP would be more difficult.  I have the installation media for XP, but my laptop is a 21st-century laptop and is not likely to have the necessary drivers.  I could try installing XP to see if I end up with enough of a functioning operating system to be able to perform the tests.  Just curious, why is this data for XP important?  Must we continue to support an operating system that is well past its prime?  And if XP, why not Vista?

 

Could you remind us what advantages there would be if the UMM-6 were "fully supported" in REW?  A number of us think that manually configuring the mic is reasonably simple and straight-forward.  Collecting this data is not a trivial task.

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post #1633 of 2934
2/25/13 at 3:13pm
FWIW, there will be no more security patches for WinXP after April 8, 2014, That's only another 14 months or so from now. You know that the malware authors will be taking advantage of bugs found after that. Vista updates end on April 11, 2017, and Win 7 on January 14, 2020.
See http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
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post #1634 of 2934
2/25/13 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post

Hello all,

To add support for UMM-6 in REW I need to know how the Windows input volume setting affects the levels coming from the mic, anyone fancy helping with that? It involves:

- Setting up the mic pointing at and very close to (within a few inches) the midrange unit on a speaker, needs to be on a stand or supported so that it doesn't move during the test
- Opening the Windows Levels control for the mic (e.g. on Win 7/8 Control Panel -> Manage Audio Devices -> Recording Tab -> select the UMM-6 -> properties -> Levels tab)
- Opening the REW signal generator and start it generating a 1kHz sine wave
- Adjusting the AVR and/or REW's signal generator level so that the tone is at a decent level, shouldn't be loud in the room (since the mic is very close to the speaker) but a good level will give a more accurate result for the next part
- Opening the REW SPL meter
- Recording the REW SPL meter dB FS readings from the small figure above the horizontal bar, just below the A/C/Z weighting selector buttons, for as many Windows Level settings as you have the patience to write down, but as a minimum the levels at 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 0.
- The final step is to place an SPL meter exactly where the mic was and record what SPL reading it shows with the sine wave playing from REW at the level used when noting the figures

Ideally I need that info from Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8 as they differ in how they handle level settings. An extra handy bit of info would be the Windows volume control dB readings with the slider at each end of the scale, which can be obtained (on Win 8 at least, I'm guessing Win7 also) by right clicking the volume slider and selecting the decibels option.

Could also do with getting the same info for an Omnimic used on Win 8 (I already have Win 7 data for that).
Awesome! Please add this support. From the initial results, the UMM-6 is the better USB mike.
Edited by Geronimo.USMC - 2/25/13 at 3:30pm
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post #1635 of 2934
2/25/13 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

John,

I might be a candidate for collecting the data for Win7 and Win8, but XP would be more difficult.  I have the installation media for XP, but my laptop is a 21st-century laptop and is not likely to have the necessary drivers.  I could try installing XP to see if I end up with enough of a functioning operating system to be able to perform the tests.  Just curious, why is this data for XP important?  Must we continue to support an operating system that is well past its prime?  And if XP, why not Vista?

Could you remind us what advantages there would be if the UMM-6 were "fully supported" in REW?  A number of us think that manually configuring the mic is reasonably simple and straight-forward.  Collecting this data is not a trivial task.
There are people who don't have access to, nor want to buy an spl meter. Besides, what's wrong with making REW simpler, & taking out a step? The title of this forum Topic Simplified REW Setup and Use says it all.
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post #1636 of 2934
2/25/13 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

FWIW, I had various problems getting Windows/REW to recognise the mic until I adopted a standard sequence for setting it up. This is:
  1. Plug in mic and HDMI cables to laptop and AVR
  2. Power on laptop
  3. Power on AVR
  4. Start REW

I always use that sequence now and it has worked every time - both my UMM-6 and Onkyo 5509 are recognised when REW runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Thanks, Keith. I will try this when the mic arrives.

My new UMM-6 mic arrived and it works! Yes!

I don't know if it's the new mic or Keith's order of operation, which I urge be posted as a sidebar in Jerry's Step-by-Step Guide (at least until this thing is worked out), but the SPL Meter in REW is now active. Also noticed more choices in the REW Preference window, under Output and Input, besides UMM-6 1 and UMM-6 2. I can't recall them specifically but I'll post a screen shot when I get home. Delivery man arrived too late for me to try out anything.
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post #1637 of 2934
2/25/13 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

There are people who don't have access to, nor want to buy an spl meter. Besides, what's wrong with making REW simpler, & taking out a step? The title of this forum Topic Simplified REW Setup and Use says it all.

 

So does this mean you are volunteering to collect the data John is asking for?

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post #1638 of 2934
2/25/13 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Could you remind us what advantages there would be if the UMM-6 were "fully supported" in REW?  A number of us think that manually configuring the mic is reasonably simple and straight-forward.  Collecting this data is not a trivial task.

 

Yes - I have to say I am confused as to why some seem to think this is such a big deal. Admittedly, the more automation the better, but setting up the mic is hardly a troublesome task. Unless I am missing something...

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post #1639 of 2934
2/25/13 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

There are people who don't have access to, nor want to buy an spl meter. Besides, what's wrong with making REW simpler, & taking out a step? The title of this forum Topic Simplified REW Setup and Use says it all.

 

People have advanced to using REW and a calibrated $100 mic and they have never bought or felt any need for a SPL meter??? I am amazed.

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post #1640 of 2934
2/25/13 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post

Hello all,
 

 

John - while you are here, can you please advise me on this:

 

I have been using REW now for a few weeks and I am loving it. I wanted to make a donation to you as some way of saying 'thank you'. I went to the HTS website but when I go to make a donation, it seems as if the donation is going to HTS rather than to you. Is there something I am missing, or is that the way to do it?  

 

I post this as a public post rather than a PM because there may be others who are considering donating to you and your reply may serve to remind them and also to clarify the process. 

 

Many thanks.

 

 

Kind Regards,
 
Keith
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post #1641 of 2934
2/25/13 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

So does this mean you are volunteering to collect the data John is asking for?
I don't have a mic yet. If I did, I would.
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post #1642 of 2934
2/25/13 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

People have advanced to using REW and a calibrated $100 mic and they have never bought or felt any need for a SPL meter??? I am amazed.
Still, Amazed or not, there are people who don't have access to, nor want to buy an SPL meter. That is logical thought. There are people who don't have an SPL........rolleyes.gif This a how to/learning thread. There are people starting with REW with no experience or equipment. Again, it shouldn't be a problem making REW easier & cheaper. An SPL meter is more money & an extra step, that believe it or not, someone can mess up, let alone another device that can be faulty.
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post #1643 of 2934
2/25/13 at 7:27pm
I think once support is added, REW should start charging for the use of this valuable software. And Jerry and Keith should get a small cut of the pie!
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post #1644 of 2934
2/25/13 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

Still, Amazed or not, there are people who don't have access to, nor want to buy an SPL meter. That is logical thought. There are people who don't have an SPL........rolleyes.gif This a how to/learning thread. There are people starting with REW with no experience or equipment. Again, it shouldn't be a problem making REW easier & cheaper. An SPL meter is more money & an extra step, that believe it or not, someone can mess up, let alone another device that can be faulty.

I'd put having guidelines -- even as a sidebar -- for getting REW and ASIO4ALL to consistently recognize a USB mic and HDMI audio connections to the laptop and AVR, respectively, for Windows 7/8 and Mac OS, as a higher priority than not requiring an external SPL meter. Keith's list is a start, but more info from others' struggles is helpful.

Having to troubleshoot graphics card settings and connections sequence order is considerably more time consuming than following Jerry's straightforward instructions for the Ratshack meter.

Not to be an elitist, but if you've gotten far enough to read this thread without nausea, you're likely hands-on with room EQ, at least beyond the WYSIWYG level of graphs, and IMO an external meter is just as much an accessory as mic or boom stands smile.gif. YMMV of course....
Edited by sdrucker - 2/25/13 at 9:44pm
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post #1645 of 2934
2/25/13 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I'd put having guidelines -- even as a sidebar -- for getting REW and ASIO4ALL to consistently recognize a USB mic and HDMI audio connections to the laptop and AVR, respectively, for Windows 7/8 and Mac OS, as a higher priority than not requiring an external SPL meter. Keith's list is a start, but more info from others' struggles is helpful.

Having to troubleshoot graphics card settings and connections sequence order is considerably more time consuming than following Jerry's straightforward instructions for the Ratshack meter.

Not to be an elitist, but if you've gotten far enough to read this thread without nausea, you're likely hands-on with room EQ, at least beyond the WYSIWYG level of graphs, and IMO an external meter is just as much an accessory as mic or boom stands smile.gif. YMMV of course....
I wholeheartedly agree with most your points as well.
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post #1646 of 2934
2/26/13 at 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post


My new UMM-6 mic arrived and it works! Yes!

I don't know if it's the new mic or Keith's order of operation, which I urge be posted as a sidebar in Jerry's Step-by-Step Guide (at least until this thing is worked out), but the SPL Meter in REW is now active. Also noticed more choices in the REW Preference window, under Output and Input, besides UMM-6 1 and UMM-6 2. I can't recall them specifically but I'll post a screen shot when I get home. Delivery man arrived too late for me to try out anything.




Under Output I see this:
1. HD Audio Output 1
2. HD Audio Output 2
3. Display Audio Output1 1
4. Display Audio Output2 1
5. Display Audio Output3 1
6. Display Audio Output4 1...
10. Display Audio Output 8 1

Under Input, where my only two choices were UMM-6 1 and UMM-6 2, I now have this:
1. HD Audio Mic Input 1
2. HD Audio Mic Input 2
3. HD Audio Stereo Input 1
4. HD Audio Stereo Input 2
5. UMM-6 1
6. UMM-6 2

One other thing, powering up my prepro last, as Keith suggested, I now get a pop up, confirming the HDMI connection to the prepro. I didn't get this before, but HDMI did seem connected, so I don't know how meaningful this is.

I'll begin measuring tomorrow.
Edited by Pres2play - 2/26/13 at 1:25am
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post #1647 of 2934
2/26/13 at 1:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

People have advanced to using REW and a calibrated $100 mic and they have never bought or felt any need for a SPL meter??? I am amazed.
Still, Amazed or not, there are people who don't have access to, nor want to buy an SPL meter. That is logical thought. There are people who don't have an SPL........rolleyes.gif This a how to/learning thread. There are people starting with REW with no experience or equipment. Again, it shouldn't be a problem making REW easier & cheaper. An SPL meter is more money & an extra step, that believe it or not, someone can mess up, let alone another device that can be faulty.

 

Sure - I am all for making things easier to use. But I am still amazed that people have got to this degree of sophistication (REW) without ever having tried even a SPL meter to help them set up their systems. 

 

It's similar to the discussion going on over in the Audyssey thread about whether it's important to use a proper mic stand to hold the mic or whether a camera tripod will do, or even an old broomstick! As a mic stand costs $20 and is the correct tool for holding a mic, it also amazes me that there is resistance to it!

 

BTW, I am guessing you do have a mic stand ;)

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post #1648 of 2934
2/26/13 at 1:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I think once support is added, REW should start charging for the use of this valuable software. And Jerry and Keith should get a small cut of the pie!

 

Never one to turn money away <g> but TBH I think the model John has adopted is a good one. Hopefully, a high percentage of REW users will make a contribution. I like the way he does it ATM because people who are doubtful of their abilities to set it up and use it (like I was for example) can try it first before they have to pay. Maybe a compromise would be crippleware of some sort - a 30 day timed trial maybe, or fully featured but without the ability to save the measurements. Whatever John does, I do hope that most of us, in this thread at least, will be making a donation.

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post #1649 of 2934
2/26/13 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Not to be an elitist, but if you've gotten far enough to read this thread without nausea, you're likely hands-on with room EQ, at least beyond the WYSIWYG level of graphs, and IMO an external meter is just as much an accessory as mic or boom stands smile.gif. YMMV of course....

Exactly how I see it FWIW.

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post #1650 of 2934
2/26/13 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post

Hello all,

To add support for UMM-6 in REW I need to know how the Windows input volume setting affects the levels coming from the mic, anyone fancy helping with that? It involves:

- Setting up the mic pointing at and very close to (within a few inches) the midrange unit on a speaker, needs to be on a stand or supported so that it doesn't move during the test
- Opening the Windows Levels control for the mic (e.g. on Win 7/8 Control Panel -> Manage Audio Devices -> Recording Tab -> select the UMM-6 -> properties -> Levels tab)
- Opening the REW signal generator and start it generating a 1kHz sine wave
- Adjusting the AVR and/or REW's signal generator level so that the tone is at a decent level, shouldn't be loud in the room (since the mic is very close to the speaker) but a good level will give a more accurate result for the next part
- Opening the REW SPL meter
- Recording the REW SPL meter dB FS readings from the small figure above the horizontal bar, just below the A/C/Z weighting selector buttons, for as many Windows Level settings as you have the patience to write down, but as a minimum the levels at 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 0.
- The final step is to place an SPL meter exactly where the mic was and record what SPL reading it shows with the sine wave playing from REW at the level used when noting the figures

Ideally I need that info from Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8 as they differ in how they handle level settings. An extra handy bit of info would be the Windows volume control dB readings with the slider at each end of the scale, which can be obtained (on Win 8 at least, I'm guessing Win7 also) by right clicking the volume slider and selecting the decibels option.

Could also do with getting the same info for an Omnimic used on Win 8 (I already have Win 7 data for that).

Hi JohnPM,

Here is some Windows 7 data, as requested. Can't help with Win 8, may be able to do Win XP later.

Data as follows:-
First column = Windows 7 Level control setting within Control Panel
Second column = Reading taken from REW SPL meter (just below A/C/Z button)
Third column = REW levels did not change for every Windows 7 control adjustment, so this column lists the values at which a change occurred, as the values were decreased. This is why some REW values remain unchanged in the first two columns.

100 -18.7 99
95 -20.1 87
90 -20.0 77
85 -21.4 67
80 -21.4 58
75 -22.7 51
70 -22.7 44
65 -24.1 38
60 -24.1 33
55 -25.5 28
50 -28.1 24
45 -28.1 20
40 -29.4 16
35 -30.7 13
30 -32.0 11
25 -33.4 8
20 -36.1 6
15 -37.5 4
10 -41.2 2
5 -43.9 1
0 -48.0

Independent SPL meter read 99.2dB
Win7 Level slider range was 0.0dB to +20.0dB

Regards, Mike.

Edit, tried to respace the data, but extra spaces keep disappearing, sorry.
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