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Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How... - Page 131

post #3901 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Couple of housekeeping points - can you make the X-axis scale in increments of 5dB,  just to make it easier for us to compare at a glance, and can you post graphs of R+L + Subs for the full range measurement, which is what we are used to using?

The front and middle rows don't look bad, assuming that big bass boost is what you want. The back row is pretty disastrous by comparison, but we expected that. Personally, I'd like to see the bass rising more smoothly from the crossover region to about 30Hz and then dropping off gradually or remaining flat for as long as the subs can hold it.  But to achieve that you'd probably have to go into the realms of PEQ and that is a whole new rabbit hole. If it sounds good as things stand, and accepting that you will probably never get all three rows to be equally good, how do you think it looks so far?

I really don't know how it looks so far sorry Keith, its beyond my knowledge.

I don't even know how to give you the other things you ask for sorry....
can you make the X-axis scale in increments of 5dB, just to make it easier for us to compare at a glance, and can you post graphs of R+L + Subs for the full range measurement, which is what we are used to using?
 

 

Check that your limits dialog looks like this:

 

 

 

 

With the small increments you have used, the graph looks worse than it is. It's just as good but it makes it harder for us to compare 'at a glance' as we are used to seeing 5db increments. 

 

You have posted L+ Subs, R + Subs. What we'd like to see for the full range graph is L and Right and Subs all together. With the subs switched on select Channel 1 in the dropdown box in REW and Channel 2 in the other dropdown box. 

 

 

Quote:
Im really pretty satisfied with the sound to be truthful. I just want to know if I have the subs in the best positions before I close in the stage area and build the rear subs into the floor since they are floor subs.

 

Are you happy with the bass boost your graphs are showing currently?  If this is a deliberate house curve, then that's fine, but if you are aiming for something like the Audyssey target curve, then we'd need to discover why you are getting that big boost and what to do about it. I personally like a house curve for my bass but I prefer a gentle rise from the crossover area up to about 30Hz. I have been fortunate that I have managed to achieve this by a combination of sub placement, Audyssey, Dynamic EQ and using a 'trick' with the Submersives whereby I calibrate with the subs in one 'program' and then change to a different program for actual listening. Serendipity really. Otherwise I would have had to use PEQ (which I am still considering for various reasons). 

 

Of course, the shape of the graphs might be quite different when we see the R+L+Subs all together ;)

 

Using R+L+Subs is a much closer approach to what we actually hear - we never hear just the R speaker plus Subs or the L Speaker plus Subs if you think about it, so why would we be interested in seeing graphs of those combinations?


Edited by kbarnes701 - 7/8/13 at 2:49am

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3902 of 9539
Hi All

Relocated my sub (SVS PB-13 Ultra) to left corner (WAF issue).

Below are the measurements of L+R+Sub with and without smoothing. Audessey is on and has been calibrated for MLP.

All speakers set to small. Xover is set for 100hz for Front, Front wides and rear. Main is set for 80hz. Center is set for 40hz (Audessey setting)

I cranked up the base about 10db after Audessey ran. Doesn't sound excessive to me






I've e-mailed to SVS for recommendations. Thought I'd share and see if anyone else had any comments/suggestions

Regards

mark
post #3903 of 9539
It's Audyssey not Audessey.

In order to evaluate low frequency performance measure L+Sub, R+Sub, C+Sub, L+R+Sub and L+C+R+Sub at multiple locations. This will show uniformity of frequency response across speakers and within the listening area. And, please show only frequencies up to about 300Hz. The steady-state response of multiple speakers within an acoustically small room doesn't have much meaning above that frequency.

Also look at the behavior in time, e.g. waterfall plot. Flat frequency response is only half the battle won. Short modal decay is equally important.
post #3904 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

It's Audyssey not Audessey.

In order to evaluate low frequency performance measure L+Sub, R+Sub, C+Sub, L+R+Sub and L+C+R+Sub at multiple locations. This will show uniformity of frequency response across speakers and within the listening area. And, please show only frequencies up to about 300Hz. The steady-state response of multiple speakers within an acoustically small room doesn't have much meaning above that frequency.

Also look at the behavior in time, e.g. waterfall plot. Flat frequency response is only half the battle won. Short modal decay is equally important.

I'm only interested in measuring and optimizing the MLP
post #3905 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Jerry and Keith Ive finally done the measures with REW. I really wouldn't have a clue if I did them correctly or not as I found it a bit intimidating following all the instructions but I feel Ive done it all correctly.

Murray, congratulations on posting your first measurements. Nice job!

As Keith says, the best measurement to provide a "summary" view of the bass response is to do left+right+subs together. Select the left and right channels as the output, and subs are included by default through bass management. Isolating left+subs is, IMO, what you would do in order to drill down to analyze a particular issue.

Your curves don't look bad. The response above 100Hz looks typical. Below 100Hz may or may not be a problem, depending on your tastes. Clearly, there is a significant rise in low frequencies at the low end. If you were focused on listening to music in the room, I would say this would be a serious problem. But for movies, the emphasis might be to your liking. With your three-tier seating, it doesn't surprise me that there is a significant row-to-row variance. Unfortunately, this may be something that cannot be resolved. I would focus on getting one row really good, with the other rows as "close enough".

What would be a much better assessment of the bass would be a Waterfall graph. You can generate the waterfall using your existing measurements--simply follow the instructions in the Guide to the letter. The waterfall will show us the real quality of bass in the room.

Now that you have developed your measurement skills, you can experiment with sub placements to find what is best. As I have recommended in previous posts, finding what is best is not a quick, nor simple, process. It requires a systematic approach, like my "walk, don't run" recommendation. And a good dose of patience and perserverence helps.

Let's see the L+R+subs graphs, and the Waterfalls!
post #3906 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post


I cranked up the base about 10db after Audessey ran.

Mark, thanks for sharing the measurements. I assume the graphs you posted include the 10dB bass boost? It would be really nice to see the bass region 15-300Hz without the boost, no smoothing. And posting a Waterfall graph would give us a true idea of the quality of the low end. Follow the Guide instructions.

Looking forward to seeing the new graphs.
post #3907 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

I'm only interested in measuring and optimizing the MLP

That doesn't invalidate what I've said.
post #3908 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I don't know whats up with this site but Im having trouble trying to add images to the same post.

Murray, I have been struggling with this issue for several weeks. PLEASE report your issue to Forum Operations. I have a thread discussing the issue with the Mods.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476511/bug-adding-images-to-existing-post/0_20#post_23505386
post #3909 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Couple of housekeeping points - can you make the X-axis scale in increments of 5dB,  just to make it easier for us to compare at a glance, and can you post graphs of R+L + Subs for the full range measurement, which is what we are used to using?

The front and middle rows don't look bad, assuming that big bass boost is what you want. The back row is pretty disastrous by comparison, but we expected that. Personally, I'd like to see the bass rising more smoothly from the crossover region to about 30Hz and then dropping off gradually or remaining flat for as long as the subs can hold it.  But to achieve that you'd probably have to go into the realms of PEQ and that is a whole new rabbit hole. If it sounds good as things stand, and accepting that you will probably never get all three rows to be equally good, how do you think it looks so far?

I really don't know how it looks so far sorry Keith, its beyond my knowledge.

I don't even know how to give you the other things you ask for sorry....
can you make the X-axis scale in increments of 5dB, just to make it easier for us to compare at a glance, and can you post graphs of R+L + Subs for the full range measurement, which is what we are used to using?
 

 

Check that your limits dialog looks like this:

 

 

 

 

With the small increments you have used, the graph looks worse than it is. It's just as good but it makes it harder for us to compare 'at a glance' as we are used to seeing 5db increments. 

 

You have posted L+ Subs, R + Subs. What we'd like to see for the full range graph is L and Right and Subs all together. With the subs switched on select Channel 1 in the dropdown box in REW and Channel 2 in the other dropdown box. 

 

Hi Murray, another "housekeeping tip" (as Keith likes to call them) is to use the "Capture" icon in the upper left of the graph.  This will bring up the dialog shown and avoid having to do print screens from Windows as you've done in your previous posts:

 

 

Hope this helps and looking forward to your updated FR plots and waterfalls.

 

Joe

post #3910 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post



Are you happy with the bass boost your graphs are showing currently?  If this is a deliberate house curve, then that's fine, but if you are aiming for something like the Audyssey target curve, then we'd need to discover why you are getting that big boost and what to do about it. I personally like a house curve for my bass but I prefer a gentle rise from the crossover area up to about 30Hz.Of course, the shape of the graphs might be quite different when we see the R+L+Subs all together wink.gif

Using R+L+Subs is a much closer approach to what we actually hear - we never hear just the R speaker plus Subs or the L Speaker plus Subs if you think about it, so why would we be interested in seeing graphs of those combinations?

I didn't aim for the bass boost I just have everything set to the way Audyssey found it. All my subs are set to 75db and I don't run them hot, I change nothing except raising the crossovers to 80Hz. Could it be that all the walls and ceiling are constructed with double GIB and green glue, they say that green glue can boost bass. Also there is a floating timber floor and risers over concrete base. Although I didn't aim for a bass boost I would certainly not want any less than what I know have that's for sure, I love that bass! In that case what do you say in light of me not wanting less?

I will have to go back in and do the combined result you require.
post #3911 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post



Are you happy with the bass boost your graphs are showing currently?  If this is a deliberate house curve, then that's fine, but if you are aiming for something like the Audyssey target curve, then we'd need to discover why you are getting that big boost and what to do about it. I personally like a house curve for my bass but I prefer a gentle rise from the crossover area up to about 30Hz.Of course, the shape of the graphs might be quite different when we see the R+L+Subs all together wink.gif

Using R+L+Subs is a much closer approach to what we actually hear - we never hear just the R speaker plus Subs or the L Speaker plus Subs if you think about it, so why would we be interested in seeing graphs of those combinations?

I didn't aim for the bass boost I just have everything set to the way Audyssey found it. All my subs are set to 75db and I don't run them hot, I change nothing except raising the crossovers to 80Hz. Could it be that all the walls and ceiling are constructed with double GIB and green glue, they say that green glue can boost bass. Also there is a floating timber floor and risers over concrete base. Although I didn't aim for a bass boost I would certainly not want any less than what I know have that's for sure, I love that bass! In that case what do you say in light of me not wanting less?

I will have to go back in and do the combined result you require.

 

It's your system and your ears, so if you like the bass that way, that is fine. I was just asking because it could be that you have such a huge 'lump' in the bass there that Audyssey cannot correct it. If that is the case, then one might wonder what is boosting the bass so much. But if you like the result that is all that matters. There's no law that says you have to have the Audyssey curve and many people believe that a flat bass response is not the best response. Like I say, I prefer a gently rising bass from XO to 30Hz and I wouldn't want the bass to be ruler flat. I only use the HT for movies, if that is deemed significant. 

post #3912 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It's your system and your ears, so if you like the bass that way, that is fine. I was just asking because it could be that you have such a huge 'lump' in the bass there that Audyssey cannot correct it. If that is the case, then one might wonder what is boosting the bass so much. But if you like the result that is all that matters. There's no law that says you have to have the Audyssey curve and many people believe that a flat bass response is not the best response. Like I say, I prefer a gently rising bass from XO to 30Hz and I wouldn't want the bass to be ruler flat. I only use the HT for movies, if that is deemed significant. 

How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
My room is not for music ever, its movies only too.
post #3913 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I don't know whats up with this site but Im having trouble trying to add images to the same post.

Murray, I have been struggling with this issue for several weeks. PLEASE report your issue to Forum Operations. I have a thread discussing the issue with the Mods.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476511/bug-adding-images-to-existing-post/0_20#post_23505386

 

I thought I was having that issue just a moment ago, but I quit my browser and re-opened it and then found I could add an image to an edited post. Just FYI.

post #3914 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It's your system and your ears, so if you like the bass that way, that is fine. I was just asking because it could be that you have such a huge 'lump' in the bass there that Audyssey cannot correct it. If that is the case, then one might wonder what is boosting the bass so much. But if you like the result that is all that matters. There's no law that says you have to have the Audyssey curve and many people believe that a flat bass response is not the best response. Like I say, I prefer a gently rising bass from XO to 30Hz and I wouldn't want the bass to be ruler flat. I only use the HT for movies, if that is deemed significant. 

How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
My room is not for music ever, its movies only too.

 

Well, first one has to get it flat ;) 

post #3915 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Murray, I have been struggling with this issue for several weeks. PLEASE report your issue to Forum Operations. I have a thread discussing the issue with the Mods.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476511/bug-adding-images-to-existing-post/0_20#post_23505386
Last time I told the forum there was a bug in their system they wouldn't believe me. It took about 20 emails before they did finally realise they did have a bug in there system, it was exhausting to get to that point!
post #3916 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

I thought I was having that issue just a moment ago, but I quit my browser and re-opened it and then found I could add an image to an edited post. Just FYI.

 

Yes, exiting and re-launching the browser clears the problem momentarily.  However, if you have typed in a whole paragraph of commentary, attempt to add an image, have the browser hang, and lose all of the content when you recycle the browser, it's not pleasant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


Last time I told the forum there was a bug in their system they wouldn't believe me. It took about 20 emails before they did finally realise they did have a bug in there system, it was exhausting to get to that point!

 

Nevertheless, it would be kind of you, and Keith, to post a comment in the Forum Operations thread alerting them that it isn't just Jerry who is having the issue.  There is strength in numbers.

post #3917 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
My room is not for music ever, its movies only too.

 

Murray, please remember that we are offering advice only in the interests of making sure you achieve the best possible theater viewing environment in NZ!  Peter Jackson will want to hang out in your theater.  No need to be defensive, if that is what I am detecting.

 

When assessing bass performance, there is quality, and then there is quantity.  There is nothing wrong with wanting quantity, but a large quantity of poor bass is nowhere near as enjoyable as a large quantity of really good bass.  Keith is a good example of the latter.  And this applies for cinema as well as music.

 

So, in keeping with our methodical approach, we would like to see the waterfall graphs.  A high quantity of bass that has a lot of ringing is not what we would call "quality bass". 

 

So what can be done about it if the data shows there is room for improvement?  All the things that we have been talking about--finding the best placement for the six subs, and if that doesn't work, then room treatments would be the next step (if you are willing to go that far).  Once you achieve a certain degree of the "quality" you should be looking for, there is nothing wrong with turning up the sub trim levels to achieve the quantity you want.

post #3918 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
My room is not for music ever, its movies only too.

 

Murray, please remember that we are offering advice only in the interests of making sure you achieve the best possible theater viewing environment in NZ!  Peter Jackson will want to hang out in your theater.  No need to be defensive, if that is what I am detecting.

 

When assessing bass performance, there is quality, and then there is quantity.  There is nothing wrong with wanting quantity, but a large quantity of poor bass is nowhere near as enjoyable as a large quantity of really good bass.  Keith is a good example of the latter.  And this applies for cinema as well as music.

 

So, in keeping with our methodical approach, we would like to see the waterfall graphs.  A high quantity of bass that has a lot of ringing is not what we would call "quality bass". 

 

So what can be done about it if the data shows there is room for improvement?  All the things that we have been talking about--finding the best placement for the six subs, and if that doesn't work, then room treatments would be the next step (if you are willing to go that far).  Once you achieve a certain degree of the "quality" you should be looking for, there is nothing wrong with turning up the sub trim levels to achieve the quantity you want.


Concurred all round! Especially the bolded sentence. As you say, we need to see the waterfalls.

 

@Glenn - when you have done the R+L+Subs measurement, make a waterfall of the result ensuring you follow the guidelines in Jerry's Guide (especially extending them out to 450ms). Just 15Hz-300Hz.

post #3919 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

I thought I was having that issue just a moment ago, but I quit my browser and re-opened it and then found I could add an image to an edited post. Just FYI.

 

Yes, exiting and re-launching the browser clears the problem momentarily.  However, if you have typed in a whole paragraph of commentary, attempt to add an image, have the browser hang, and lose all of the content when you recycle the browser, it's not pleasant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


Last time I told the forum there was a bug in their system they wouldn't believe me. It took about 20 emails before they did finally realise they did have a bug in there system, it was exhausting to get to that point!

 

Nevertheless, it would be kind of you, and Keith, to post a comment in the Forum Operations thread alerting them that it isn't just Jerry who is having the issue.  There is strength in numbers.

 

Consider it done, Jerry.

post #3920 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Yes, exiting and re-launching the browser clears the problem momentarily.  However, if you have typed in a whole paragraph of commentary, attempt to add an image, have the browser hang, and lose all of the content when you recycle the browser, it's not pleasant.

Nevertheless, it would be kind of you, and Keith, to post a comment in the Forum Operations thread alerting them that it isn't just Jerry who is having the issue.  There is strength in numbers.

I know exactly what you mean Jerry, its a shocking bug! I spent forever last night trying to add some images, the thing keeps stating "wait a moment" you walk away but it just hangs! I continue to see people post sometimes the same thing three times. Its been like this for weeks. If you go back in to edit to add another image its impossible.

I will mention it again for you.
post #3921 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

No need to be defensive, if that is what I am detecting.

Im sorry but I don't even know what you mean by this statement?

How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
Keith mentioned his room was for movies not music, I said mine was the same....

Nothing defensive here at all, please don't read something into a question and a statement. I know you guys are helping me and I thanked you for that a number of times, there is nothing nasty here not even 1".rolleyes.gif
post #3922 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Check that your limits dialog looks like this:






With the small increments you have used, the graph looks worse than it is. It's just as good but it makes it harder for us to compare 'at a glance' as we are used to seeing 5db increments. 

You have posted L+ Subs, R + Subs. What we'd like to see for the full range graph is L and Right and Subs all together. With the subs switched on select Channel 1 in the dropdown box in REW and Channel 2 in the other dropdown box. 




Of course, the shape of the graphs might be quite different when we see the R+L+Subs all together wink.gif

Using R+L+Subs is a much closer approach to what we actually hear - we never hear just the R speaker plus Subs or the L Speaker plus Subs if you think about it, so why would we be interested in seeing graphs of those combinations?

So Keith I don't use centre at all as I did, is that correct?
Edited by RapalloAV - 7/8/13 at 12:58pm
post #3923 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I know exactly what you mean Jerry, its a shocking bug! I spent forever last night trying to add some images, the thing keeps stating "wait a moment" you walk away but it just hangs! I continue to see people post sometimes the same thing three times. Its been like this for weeks. If you go back in to edit to add another image its impossible.

I will mention it again for you.

There is a workaround that I have found. If you have entered text and now want to add an image, click "Preview" first, and then add the image. Also, use "small" or "large" for image size, not "medium". Crazy workarounds, but I am desparate.
post #3924 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Im sorry but I don't even know what you mean by this statement?

How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
Keith mentioned his room was for movies not music, I said mine was the same....

Nothing defensive here at all, please don't read something into a question and a statement. I know you guys are helping me and I thanked you for that a number of times, there is nothing nasty here not even 1".rolleyes.gif

No harm meant, Murray. Thanks for clarifying.
post #3925 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Well, first one has to get it flat wink.gif 

Ok now I understand. ......

What else can I do to get to flat, can you offer some help please as I cant add anymore room treatments?
Audyssey has done its best then to get it to flat, correct, it cant do anymore?
post #3926 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

No harm meant, Murray. Thanks for clarifying.

Thanks Jerry for understanding, this is often the problem with the written word, people interpret it in many different ways. I always try had to watch what I write in case there is ever a misunderstanding, I've seen far too many horrid squabbles on the forum, I don't wish to ever be apart of one.

Ok we are back on track so lets see what else I can do to get you guys the results we are all looking for....smile.gif
post #3927 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Hi Murray, another "housekeeping tip" (as Keith likes to call them) is to use the "Capture" icon in the upper left of the graph.  This will bring up the dialog shown and avoid having to do print screens from Windows as you've done in your previous posts:




Hope this helps and looking forward to your updated FR plots and waterfalls.

Joe

Thanks for that Joe I never knew that was there... I was looking for something like this but I couldn't kind it.rolleyes.gif
post #3928 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

No need to be defensive, if that is what I am detecting.

Im sorry but I don't even know what you mean by this statement?

How does one change it to be more gentle rising then?
Keith mentioned his room was for movies not music, I said mine was the same....

Nothing defensive here at all, please don't read something into a question and a statement. I know you guys are helping me and I thanked you for that a number of times, there is nothing nasty here not even 1".rolleyes.gif

 

 

LOL - now you have got all defensive about not being defensive :)  FWIW, I didn't think you were being defensive before. But us Limeys and you Antipodeans have thicker skins than the Yanks, so they can be more sensitive. Even in Texas :)

post #3929 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Well, first one has to get it flat wink.gif

Ok now I understand. ......

What else can I do to get to flat, can you offer some help please as I cant add anymore room treatments?
Audyssey has done its best then to get it to flat, correct, it cant do anymore?

 

What Jerry said really. But let's see the waterfalls. FR is only one of the parameters we are interested in. Time domain is possibly even more important (well it is to me anyway). Let's see the waterfalls first.

 

I also agree with Jerry's suggested operating logistics: start by getting one row as good as possible. Then measure the other rows and see if they are acceptable. If they are, then you may decide to leave it at that, always ensuring you sit in the great row. All this is tied together IMO - I think you have been trying to do too many things at once - let's take it a step at a time (walk before run, as Jerry put it).  Show us your waterfalls of the R+L+Subs and we'll go from there. They may be great (although I am betting they will show quite a bit of ringing at the bottom end). If they are less than great, then we need to decide the next step. Personally, I would rather have less quantity and more quality if I had to trade one against the other. Nice tight bass is more satisfying to me than bass that is louder or deeper but also boomy as hell. Depending on what the new measurements and graphs show, we can decide the next step. I suspect this will be to decide on one row and try to optimise for that.

 

We may also need to call on the Grandmaster PlacementMeister, Sanjay to help with placement suggestions, if necessary.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 7/8/13 at 1:27pm
post #3930 of 9539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What Jerry said really. But let's see the waterfalls. FR is only one of the parameters we are interested in. Time domain is possibly even more important (well it is to me anyway). Let's see the waterfalls first.

I also agree with Jerry's suggested operating logistics: start by getting one row as good as possible. Then measure the other rows and see if they are acceptable. If they are, then you may decide to leave it at that, always ensuring you sit in the great row. All this is tied together IMO - I think you have been trying to do too many things at once - let's take it a step at a time (walk before run, as Jerry put it).  Show us your waterfalls of the R+L+Subs and we'll go from there. They may be great (although I am betting they will show quite a bit of ringing at the bottom end). If they are less than great, then we need to decide the next step. Personally, I would rather have less quantity and more quality if I had to trade one against the other. Nice tight bass is more satisfying to me than bass that is louder or deeper but also boomy as hell. Depending on what the new measurements and graphs show, we can decide the next step. I suspect this will be to decide on one row and try to optimise for that.

We may also need to call on the Grandmaster PlacementMeister, Sanjay to help with placement suggestions, if necessary.

Ok all sounding good Keith, lets take it slowly I like that, one step at a time..... For me the middle row is the most important, then the "worst one" the back row,,,oh dear I wish the front was my second best but everyone seems to like the back row second best.

Question:
Do we follow the XT32 mic placements, ear height, 2' off the back of a seat and pointing to the ceiling, I didn't see reference to this?

Also I never used HDMI, which I wish I had done now for the tests....

Where you say: "With the subs switched on select Channel 1 in the dropdown box in REW and Channel 2 in the other dropdown box" I believe you are referring to using the HDMI output, am I correct?
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Audio theory, Setup and Chat › Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs