Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How... - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon 

Reading cdnbum88's post makes me worry that not all HDMI outputs on laptops and PCs are going to offer 8 channel or ASIO support. Eventually jevansoh should make a list of supported audio chipsets and graphics cards with HDMI audio out that are compatible with REW. Maybe make a note in the first few posts of this thread for users having HDMI problems to state what audio chipset, soundcard, or graphics card they are using including make, model, version #? The driver version may also help.
I'm glad this thread exists because I'm going to ask alot of dummy questions. I'm probably going to order the USB mic, but I have some setup questions after looking through the REW documentation. My questions are primarily with calibrating for LFE material for the subwoofer channel, and larger bit depths.
I noticed in the 'Checking Levels' section of of REW Help, it mentions increasing the volume or signal level so SPL meter reads around 75 dB. I though the LFE channel was supposed to be played back 10 dB higher than the main channels? Does the bit depth of a file (ie 16 bit, 24 bit) determine how loud the pink
noise signal should be recorded and measured? In other words, would the process for calibrating a system for DVD (16 bit audio) be any different than that for bluray (24 bit in some cases)? Would a lower playback level for a higher bit depth file actually skew the calibration in a less-desired way? Would setting the output level to 85 dB or 95 dB on the sub channel be better if I'm primarily playing back 24 bit audio? Maybe I'm just getting confused between the theoretical dynamic range limited by the bit depth and suitable playback levels. Regardless, if anyone knows the answers to these questions, please let me know.

Couple of comments:

First, I don't know that publishing a list of supported hardware will be that easy.

Second, I don't understand any of your questions regarding signal levels.  REW outputs test tones to your AVR.  You control the AVR's output level through the master volume control.  Part of the initial setup of REW is the calibration of the output signal.  The process is described in detail in the Help file, and it is very important that you learn how to do it.  Essentially, it works like this:  Open the SPL icon in REW and click the "Calibrate" button, which causes a calibration tone to be sent to the AVR.  Using an SPL positioned at the MLP at ear-level, adjust the AVR master volume until the SPL reads 75dB.  In the REW calibration screen, adjust the level to also read 75dB, and then click Done.  Now REW knows that the reference tone from the AVR is 75dB, and can accurately measure the AVR's output as other measurements are taken.

Now, what are all those other questions you had, and what do they have to do with REW calibration and measurements?  I'm confused.

@ Stuart,

I followed the same steps as you did, but only get two channels.  It may be a hardware limitation, or it may be a driver issue.  I'm still researching.

In the drop-down for output channels, can you select more than one channel at a time?  I.e. output to left+right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnbum88 

Ok got my UNIK-1 over the weekend and picked it up at work today.
Downloaded the lastest REW and ASIO files. Fired them up and the mic was recognized (Yeehaw) asked if I had a calibrated file and said no.
Then went in to the ASIO control panel and I see the mic and my 3 SmartAudio HD options of Conexant HD Audio Capture, HD Audio output and HS Stereo Mix. Then I have an Intel Display audio and this is the only one that shows 8 options. I have both that and the mic active in the control panel. I clicked Always resample on both.
In the drop down for Output I have 8 options for Display Audio Output 1.1, 1.2...
In the drop down for Input I have 2 Unik-1 to choose, but both look the same.
I click on Check Levels and I don't get any sound regardless of the 1.x I choose. I am not sure that the HDMI from my laptop to the AVR is really 'talking'. If I unplug the HDMI though then I only have 2 output options, so I think it 'see's' it, but something is off obviously.
I have a Marantz 7005 and I assigned the AUX1 to HDMI6, but not sure as to the other settings for Input Mode, there is Analog, HDMI, Auto and 7.1+SW. I picked 7.1 even though I only have 5.1 setup.
I am sure it is something simple, but my first rodeo with REW is causing me some grief.
If there is anything that jumps out at anyone (Jason ), please PM and let me know your thoughts or general forum support if welcome.

Did you configure the AVR input (e.g. AUX1) to use the front panel HDMI connection in the Input Assign menu on the AVR?

That works, Feri.  It certainly was not obvious!

Off to sleep now.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdrucker 


I'm going to try this later tonight on my Dell laptop, but do you have any other audio drivers enabled for two-channel audio (or an external monitor displaying HDMI video)? You may want to investigate if there's any HDMI-related conflicts than downmix/force the ASIO audio driver down to two-channel. If that makes any sense....

 

I had hoped that this wouldn't digress into a PC trouble-shooting exercise.  I have audio drivers loaded in the system for the Sounblaster X-Fi external USB soundcard that I have been using for REW.  I guess I could uninstall those drivers if I have too, but they are quite time-consuming to uninstall and reinstall.

 

BTW, when I hook the HDMI cable into the 4520 and select AUX1 as the input, my PC's desktop is displayed on the TV monitor.  I wasn't expecting that, but I guess it doesn't make any difference, just a bit distracting.

 

Second note:  my laptop is an AMD-based laptop, not an Intel-based one.  So I suspect there may be some differences.

Jerry - when I read your post it worried me that I might have the same problem. I first connected my laptop to my 5509 with HDMI.  I then ran REW and was dismayed to see that I only had the two options in the dropdown box. My 5509 was recognised because the lappy put up a warning about the resolution difference between it and the display. I then went to Windows control panel ad selected SOUND. In there was the internal gubbins but also the 5509 was showing as an audio source. I set this to 'use as default'. I then went to the ASIO control panel and disabled the internal thins and selected the IntelR HD Audio option that had now appeared. I then went back to REW preferences and hit the dropdown box and all 8 channels are showing. HTH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

 

Unfortunately, the audio is output to only one channel, either left or right, depending on the output choice.  If I can't choose to output left+right, I don't know how this will be as useful as my old outboard soundcard configuration.  I remain open-minded, because I don't think I have fully solved all the issues yet.

I worried about this too - but subsequent research and some helpful posts in this thread have now convinced me that it is important to test each speaker individually (see Sanjay's posts) - like Audyssey does - and then LCR + sub, which I have just done. You can check the L+R together though - you have to select them in REW preferences - one on the Output and one on the Timing Reference Output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioguy 

Just reading the above strongly suggests that the enthusiastic poster who got us all excited about how REW was now plug-n-play was a bit over zealous. I played around for a couple of hours today and made zero progress. I bought the USB mic and will try (again) to get my system working but I am having trouble downloading and installing the latest beta version of the software that supports the auto recognition of the USB mic. Anyone working on a very detailed step by step set of instructions for morons like me?

 

First of all, I understand your frustration.  When I first started using REW, my frustration was through the roof.  Hopefully you will get some advice here that will help.

 

Regarding Jason's (Jevansoh's) enthusiasm, I think he is simply excited to share some useful REW knowledge with us.  I do not think he over-sold the ease of use.  It has always been difficult for experts to find the most effective way of communicating their expertise.  If the discussion is too high-level, there is a risk of frustrating the beginners.  If the discussion is too low-level, the knowledgeable people become bored.  Finding the middle ground is the challenge.

 

Let's not put the burden of the success of this thread on Jason--it's our thread, so let's collectively help each other out.

Following Feri's suggestions, I have got mine basically working. I don't have a mic yet and the HDMI cable I am using means I can't be in the HT and at the laptop at the same time yet, but I am up and running. Using the steps described in my other post (to AJ) I am now able to use REW generator to send a test tone to any speaker and have also tried and succeeded in sending tones to my L + Sub, R + Sub and C + Sub.

All I need now is my mic and I can be measuring!  I have to say I have amazed myself in getting this far (thanks Feri!) but the point is that if someone as useless as I am with Windows can get this far then there is hope for everyone ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

 

Let's not put the burden of the success of this thread on Jason--it's our thread, so let's collectively help each other out.

+1 to that BTW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdrucker 
.

On the Preference->Sound Card page, once I"ve selected ASIO4ALL under ASIO, I see six Output and six Time Reference Output channels. I wonder if my Realtek driver only supports 5.1, though.

No way to tell yet, but I hope (assume?) that the six channels correspond to the first six that Jason indicated are the system channels, as shown in Post #10. I don't have surround backs, heights, or wides, so I'm not missing any speakers.

So at least on my system, this "works".

I had to go into Windows Control Panel <shudder> and select Sounds and then select the 5509 Display Audio Sound option and then select Configure. In there it gave me some check boxes one of which was for 7.1. I ticked that box and all 8 channels appear in REW. I don't have surround backs either (I dio have Heights but they are not relevant here) so it's a bit academic, but at least all 8 are showing. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

@ Stuart,

 

I followed the same steps as you did, but only get two channels.  It may be a hardware limitation, or it may be a driver issue.  I'm still researching.

 

In the drop-down for output channels, can you select more than one channel at a time?  I.e. output to left+right?

WRT to the possibility of hardware limitations - my lappy is an Asus and was the cheapest I could find. I don't know what the spec is but it is sure to be a low spec for what I paid for it! (I initially bought it to use with Audyssey Pro which isn't all that fussy). HST, it is less than a year old and came with a version of Windows 7. I only mention this FWIW and to suggest that one definitely doesn't need anything special for REW but maybe the fact mine is fairly new is important. HST, any lappy that has HDMI is going to be fairly new anyway I guess.

Jason, can I suggest that you do not reply to PMs privately but in this thread?  It will save you hours of retyping the same info. I had similar experiences around the time I started the Audyssey FAQ and soon learned that PM was not the best way to do it.  I have already started a scratch list of potential FAQ questions and am having some idea of the FAQ structure and what sections it will need. It is important to get the structure right from the get-go because it is a huge task to change it later because all the links become invalid.

I certainly don't have all the answers!  But see my post to Jerry for the steps I had to go through to get my HDMI working (which it now is - if I had a mic I could be measuring now). Also see my supplemental reply about configuring the 5509 Display Audio options in Windows control panel. This will be an important Q for the FAQ I think!

I think it is important to remember that! Walking before running as someone (AJ?) said. 

I suspect that once the teething issues with HDMI connection are solved (and they will be) then the main focus will move to 'what to measure' and 'how to interpret the graphs' and 'what to do once you have this knowledge'. That is part of the FAQ structure I have sketched out so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jevansoh 

The purpose of this thread is to explain how to both physically hook up the connections between your computer and AVR/Pre-Pro to get started with REW (Room EQ Wizard) and to share 

Jason, can I suggest that when you update the first few posts, as you said you will, that you make it clear where the updated info is - something like:

Updated - 8 Jan 2012

This way it will be easier to find the new info and harder to miss it. Just a thought. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogorf 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

I am amazed that I am so excited at the prospect of this  

I am hoping Jason (or anyone) might create a step by step guide as to what we need to do, once REW is set up and working, so that we can get started right away on the most important measurements, how to interpret them and what changes we might make as result of seeing them. 

Keith, have you downloaded REW and ASIO4ALL, yet? I suppose so. Then, while waiting for the deep dive into important measurements why not try your wings by clicking on Generator and see how you can steer around in your speaker system, one by one with some test tones or log sweeps via a simple listening test. It's fun to get acquainted with the bells and whistles of REW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogorf 

Now, if you engage channel #4 the test signal will be routed to your subwoofer channel in the AVP. If you set the Generator to Log Sweep and start from 10 Hz say up to 200 Hz and set a duration of 60 seconds, you will be able to carefully hear by ear how your subs perform and at what frequency they start to kick-in.. But most interesting will be to hear the rattling of "stuff" in your room. You can determine the resonance frequency of your "stuff", and take measures to get rid of them. How to get rid of them is another story, maybe a "rattling stuff" forum can help.   

Feri - thank you!!  I have done this (briefly) now and it works as you describe. It is interesting to 'feel' the subs quite some time before I 'hear' them.... Thanks for your help - I woudn't have got this far without your helpful setup posts.

Reposted from Audyssey thread.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioguy 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

Audioguy - if I can do this, anyone can, trust me 

It is not that I can't. Since REW was the only thing that existed for a long time, I used to use it. For several years. However, each time I had to screw around with the sound card, run loop thoroughs, set volume levels, blah, blah blah. And it was more often than not that I could not get it to work correctly. I then purchased OmniMIc and was a very happy camper.

It was all that screwing around that put me off REW in the first place. But I have spent only a little time so far with REW + HDMI and have got it basically working. Now all I will have to do is plug the mic into the USB and the HDMI cable into my 5509 and I am measuring - that is actually easier than OmniMic where the use of the CD has always been a PITA for me.

It is 'almost' PnP I think. I did have to make some settings in Windows control panel I admit. And it was trial and error - but it worked and only took a few minutes. Agreed on the step-by-step though.

We are alike! I am well-known among my family and friends for my almost zero tolerance of things that don't work properly or intuitively. :) My daughters say my threshold of tolerance is 5 minutes and they are probably right. If it fails the 5 minute test, it's usually in the trash. Not always. Usually. Or at least I have to see progress in the first 5 minutes.

I am sure this thread will be very helpful and that you will soon be up and running. Stay tuned!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogorf 

Not at all Keith, glad to help. Now, how about the rattlings. If you didn't experience them in your room you are either a lucky devil, or you were listening too soft. Pump up the Master Volume to see how your room performs in the rattling department. This can easily be an issue really worth to be fixed prior to REW'ing, thus avoiding it's influence on measurement results. And, of course, who likes to listen to deep, smooth and even bass in a room where stuffs rattle. Just a thought.

:) No rattling here Feri - but remember this is a) a dedicated room so it doesn't have any 'living room' items in it such as picture frames, ornaments etc etc and b) I sorted out the one or two rattles (from the doors) some time ago using a test disc as the source. When the subs play at Reference -5dB at 10Hz, it is important to do this :)

One more question - you said somewhere to set the REW prefs to 48kHz sampling rate (which I have done) - but why?

Back later - I have to go to the stable now to meet the farrier (aka 'pay him') and while I am out will also take my dog for his walk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

I had to go into Windows Control Panel and select Sounds and then select the 5509 Display Audio Sound option and then select Configure. In there it gave me some check boxes one of which was for 7.1. I ticked that box and all 8 channels appear in REW. I don't have surround backs either (I dio have Heights but they are not relevant here) so it's a bit academic, but at least all 8 are showing. 

Keith, until now, I had considered myself reasonably knowledgeable WRT Windows and PC configurations. However, I cannot find anywhere in my Control Panel where it references my AVR as a configurable audio device. Would it be possible for you to post several screen shots of where in the Control Panel you found these settings?

Thanks!

Edit: This is what I see

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jevansoh 

ATTENTION:
NEW REW BETA 11 RELEASED!!
This "Should" fix a lot of the problems folks have been having, technically.
Start REW and click Help, and select, "Check for updates on startup."
Then restart REW and follow the prompts. You do NOT have to uninstall the old version. Simply download and install the new overtop and everything will be updated.
When the prompt comes up to ask you to update, there is a bug list that shows all of the fixes and thankfully, most of them pertain to the problems, issues, and questions that have been asked here in the thread over the last few days.
So JohnM IS LISTENING. I can't say for sure that this thread made any difference, but I can say with a lot of confidence that this should fix a lot of the errors folks have been seeing and should make it a lot easier to get started.
Hope this helps,
--J
PS PLEASE VISIT THE FIRST PAGE AND FIRST SEVERAL POSTS OF THIS THREAD OFTEN OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS AS THERE ARE MANY UPDATES ALONG WITH THE BEGINNING OF A FAQ AND SOME TIPS ON GETTING STARTED, WHAT TO LOOK FOR, ETC. Okay, I'm done yelling now...

Actually, we are up to beta 12 now.  Thankfully, the new beta releases are quick to download and install.