Originally Posted by sdrucker
Originally Posted by jevansoh
I don't want to turn folks off. I don't want to lose you or Jerry (or anyone else) but I won't lie, I originally "intended" to get to the level of discussing which treatments to build/buy and explain the reasons and hope this thread could have a lot of participants showing before and after graphs and photos to share what it took to get the response they ended up with, teaching along the way exactly what it takes and what is necessary.
Jerry mentioned above it's my thread. I don't see it like that. I'm just the creator.
You guys, all of you, decide what the content is on an ongoing basis and so far have done a wonderful job in my sometimes way too long absences.
I want to make as many people happy as possible while turning as few people off as possible.
I am also concerned about the folks that read and get information out of this thread but aren't active participants (like I'm forced to be sometimes but I assure you I read every post) and what they might think.
I encourage everyone to speak up because I think the only fair way to decide what should be off limits (for the most part) in this thread is to vote and the majority rules.
We cannot make everyone happy all the time but if we can keep most people interested and active I feel it's worth it.
Again though, treatments are the only thing (once placement is taken care of, of course) that will make these graphs any different so to leave them out then turns this thread into a how to use REW guide ONLY and some of the more advanced features of REW that we've just begun to talk about and haven't even begun to talk about yet would be kind of pointless if we're not going to "do" anything with the information to try and improve our results, IMO.
So... What do we do?
I think Keith and jkasanic, among others, have it right. Treatments per se are at the core of what most of this thread's active audience is interested in, assuming that the reader has gotten competent enough using REW to access what those treatments can do for them. That's where I think treatment/room theory and a "this is how I did it" or "does this work" element come in, and are fair game. For detailed DIY, maybe Keith's "Donut" guide should a template for the rest of us, with possibly links for each active participant discussing the ongoing setup in our rooms in more detail, including construction materials and methodology for our own DIY (if any) for those so inclined to discuss the merits of say the porousness of the absorption materials to choose among. That might keep the thread more focused, IMO, at the risk of putting active knowledge in silos. However, in the current "post what you want to say" format, we always have the option of browsing rather than having to read every post.
While some of us will be interested more on how leveraging our Audyssey or other RC approaches have achieved particular results with the REW suite of tools than in the physical composition of our gubbins, for the more active users it's going to be about how to leverage treatments in their room to minimize the shortcomings of RC, either as purchased or through building our own, with measurable REW results as the critical assessment tool. In that sense the thread's name is a misnomer, and we need to caveat the non-treatment-focused that this is a core mission of the thread.
Or maybe the former "how do I make Audyssey work using REW" just belongs in an Audyssey (or similar thread), and we direct people that have read the REW guide there for less treatment-related questions. Who knows: maybe this gives the Audyssey thread more purpose than serving as regurgitating the same "here's what we don't like about the Audyssey company" direction some of us (me included) can be prone to do....
My only concern is that since this is the most accessible (hah) thread on AVS for using REW with HDMI, we turn off the beginner, or those that are ready to move beyond "trust but verify" Audyssey by making them think this is a treatment "how-to" thread rather than a "use the tools to direct treatments and EQ" thread. For one thing, as the later round on waterfalls shows, we don't have a definitive handle collectively on how to use them best. OTOH, unlike many threads that degenerate into shows of ego, this thread is unique in having a clear thought leader (J) and several dedicated laypeople that chronicle the learnings in Guides and maintain an ongoing participation that helps both newbies and those of us whose knowledge is complete since we lack the dedication that they might have.
If anything, we're up against the structure of the AVS board, where posts can get buried without a How-To guide or accessible FAQ rather than inappropriate mission creep, where I think J has been consistent from Day 1. I almost wish we could have a more online journal format, with an abstract for each active user summarizing the state of their project at the top of the thread, with questions that are coming to mind, and links to detailed information that can be answered by whomever. Or maybe some kind of threaded directory structure at the user level, with a high level directory for general questions and FAQ links.
You make such very good points, and thanks for the compliments btw.
I want some of the same things out of AVS as you, but I don't believe the structure from the forum software they use even does that. I dunno.
I guess from everyone's posts I've read on this topic and especially yours just now, as much as I hate to say it, I don't know there can be a definitive answer right now and maybe we should just wait and see and take it step by step day by day?
I know that's a non answer and I don't like non answers but... There is a fine line between not turning off newcomers and keeping active participants, well... active. We must keep moving forward while still providing support for newcomers and the only way to progressively move forward and not end up like other threads is to introduce new information and ideas.
I'll absolutely listen to any other comments and/or suggestions from other folks, but for now, as far as I'm concerned, let's not try to define the rules so much and be too strict, rather lets just see where things take us and if things seem to get out of hand, even if one person thinks so, as long as they speak up, we absolutely will deal with it.
I suppose we could always start another thread, as well, and for those folks interested in building acoustical treatments and/or help with their own specific rooms/projects the thread could be dedicated just to those topics but I think it's prudent to make sure what's been talked about the last few days isn't a temporary fad that passes and changes to another topic shortly. If that happens, then this discussion wasn't even necessary. Rather, if individualized treatment plans and talk about building treatment, how to build it, why, etc begins to dominate the discussion I feel we need to then look into other methods (IE: New thread) before we do any damage to potential newcomers.
I'd really like to see this thread become the new Audyssey thread. I'm not picking on Audyssey, rather only using it as an example since it's the largest thread on AVS.
It's not that I want to be the largest thread, it's just that folks truly don't realize what they're missing by not having properly integrated speakers/placement/treatment/etc and how much damage they're doing by using automated RC of any kind.
Once you hear the difference you know this fact, but until then it seems very abstract as you have nothing to compare it to.
I know in my room I'd never ever use any type of RC again as I don't need it and it really opens up the possibilities for the equipment I can use. I can use Direct/Pure Direct, Analog, Pioneer/Yamaha (if I wanted to; I don't
) etc with no consequences and it would be very nice indeed if we could help others not be so restricted and open them up to the world of acoustic nirvana. That's the goal, at least. Only the initiated will ever achieve it though, and that's who this thread is for. Audyssey is for the masses and has its place and in no way am I putting it down, in fact I am temporarily still using it for my surround speakers as my room is still under construction.