Originally Posted by AustinJerry
To prove to myself that Audyssey wasn't making things worse WRT bass ringing, I pulled up several recent measurement sessions and compared the Audyssey On/Off measurements. With the Waterfall, it is very difficult to see differences. However, with the Spectrogram, I do see differences pre- and post-calibration. I haven't formed an opinion as to whether I am seeing a pattern or not, or whether the post-calibration results are worse, but I do see differences.
Oh no, is doubt creeping in? What have you guys done to me?
It's a contagious disease, don't you know?
If you don't mind some philosophical perspectives (think of me as the conceptual, electronic focused doppleganger of J), I think we may be learning the obvious, and it's jarring. And possibly "unfair" given that we're testing Audyssey in ways that were never intended by the developer, Chris K.
As you and Sanjay noted, IIRC there's an inverse relationship between bass gain/cut and decay worsening/improvement with Audyssey (and MCACC, ARC, and YMAO, with frequency domain only correction). But, if we do the 85+ db measurement and concentrate on the spectrograms rather than waterfalls for accessing bass decay, there are things that may be standing out which weren't as clear before, when we were (as per J) incorrectly, at least some of us, interpreting our waterfalls. Further, the 450-600 ms standard was more "acceptable" in the spring was misleading to how well our rooms were doing.The biggest to me is that if you're relying on Audyssey XT/XT32, with or without Pro, is that it's not the "do no harm" Swiss Army Knife to improve the room that we previously thought unless your focus is frequency response and you are relying on it to flatten gains.
And taken to an extreme, you've just got an automated, although sensitive, equalizer that does its best below 200 to 300 Hz, and makes marginal improvements above that point, at the possible risk of forcing you to make some measurable characteristics of your room "worse". That's what it does, period, aside from the imposition of MRC and nice-to-have optional accessories like DEQ and to some DVOL. It remains to seen if a system like Dirac or Trinnov can do better.It's certainly possible that the previous perceived advantage of Audyssey addressing gains as well as dips to achieve this curve may force a tradeoff that may be a poor one as we learn more collectively about how to achieve so-called "Audio Nirvana".
Maybe even a fatal one as our priorities change over time. It really bothers me to say this, but it's the nature of the product lifecycle. Otherwise we'd still be happily using Palm Pilots and WordPerfect haha...
Thus it seems that at least some of us are coming full circle. I for one started with no room correction and no treatments, and for me, MCACC and as I hung out with the big dogs on the Denon thread won me over, Audyssey XT32. A year ago getting a good Audyssey run and a flattish room response curve was the pinnacle of success. But now
, it's at most one tool in a much broader context that requires a lot of learning, hard work planting and testing treatments if you want to continue learning and digging deeper into the rabbit hole. To use my analogy, like studying Kabbalah....
To be honest, I thought that a lot of the comments that J made about the efficacy of REQ and his distaste for it almost being illegitimate were related to having Audyssey XT rather than XT32 (preferably with the Pro Kit), and were personal taste that was driving this thread.
However now, I wonder if he was right. Or if you want more of an electronic solution, that means going to the more expensive approaches like Trinnov (preferably the five figures version, but possibly the Sherwood) or the Dirac implementation on Datasat, or moving to the HTPC world to use Dirac Live with its own steep learning curve to use as a home theater hub. But once you're in the rabbit hole, you can't really sleep well at night without climbing full in, or deliberately backing away and not coming back....Edited by sdrucker - 11/2/13 at 11:21pm