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2013 4K Harman Kardon AVR 2700 & 3700 receivers - Page 10

post #271 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

A stereo source will likely not have an LFE track but the receiver can create one if you set the Bass Manager to LFE+L/R or All Speakers SMALL..

Just my $0.05... 👍😉

Well it's not actually LFE. it's just the low frequencies being sent to the sub.

LFE is only found in the .1 track of audio sources containing that track.
post #272 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Well it's not actually LFE. it's just the low frequencies being sent to the sub.

LFE is only found in the .1 track of audio sources containing that track.

There are multiple possibilities depending upon type of stereo source and bass manager settings these are:
1. The stereo source is 2.0 and loudspeakers set to LARGE, the bass manager sums the L/R and low passes and sent to subwoofer out,
2. The stereo source is 2.0 and loudspeakers set to SMALL, it low passes the low frequencies from L/R are summed and sent to subwoofer out
3. The stereo source is 2.1 and loudspeakers set to LARGE, source has an LFE track, it is sent to subwoofer out
4. The stereo source is 2.1 and loudspeakers set to SMALL, source has an LFE track,. The L/R low frequencies are low passed and summed with the LFE track to subwoofer out

Bottom line..
The actual signal @ subwoofer out depends upon the source signal whether or not it has an LFE track (.1) plus the bass manager loudspeaker settings if LARGE or SMALL.


Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #273 of 673
^ it's still not "LFE". Only bass. LFE is specific. Routing bass to the sub via the "LFE" input is not the same.
post #274 of 673

whatever is called is irrelevant to me! i just want to be able to control it like on my 645!

post #275 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

^ it's still not "LFE". Only bass. LFE is specific. Routing bass to the sub via the "LFE" input is not the same.

An LFE track is for the lowest frequencies <120Hz, which is encoded as the .1 track, however the .1 track is usually found in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 sound tracks encoded in Dolby or DTS surround. Whats comes out of the Subwoofer Out jack depends upons the bass manager settiings. If the loudspeaker setting is set to LARGE then only the LFE track will be sent out to subwoofer out, provided the source is encoded with an .1 track. The low frequencies for the other channels when set to LARGE such as L/R, Center, L/R surrounds is sent out through that respective channel. This means that those channels are using a larger, full-range (20Hz-20kHz) loudspeaker, however in today's home theater market 90% of the loudspeaker systems are subwoofer/satellite systems, and the smaller satellites typically are unable to handle frequencies <150Hz. This is why the common factory default setting for the loudspeakers is SMALL, here the redirected low frequencies for each channels such as L/R, Center and L/R surrounds are all low pass filtered summed together along with the LFE track (if in the original source) sent out through Subwoofer Out. Note that certain AVRs including Harman/Kardon and Yamaha provide in their bass manager settings an LFE trim control plus the traditional subwoofer level control, some high energy sound tracks have such high levels of low frequency effects LFE that one may overload the AVRs' connected subwoofer so the LFE trim control makes available the option to back it down if required.

We have also found that many 5.1 AVRs have only an 1 pair of L/R loudspeakers and subwoofer connected, so now the user will turn OFF the Center and L/R surrounds outputs. And then the AVR's DSP will route the encoded Center, and L/R surrounds info to the connected Front L/R loudspeakers plus the subwoofer so a 5.1 source can be played as a 2.1.

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #276 of 673
^^ Ok you're confusing me now smile.gif

I have a 1600 and all I see in the settings is a sub trim adjustment. Where is the LFE trim?

Thanks
post #277 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

^^ Ok you're confusing me now smile.gif

I have a 1600 and all I see in the settings is a sub trim adjustment. Where is the LFE trim?

Thanks

The lower HK models such as the 1600 did not have this feature.
Only the higher end models such as the 7550HD, 760, 660 had it..

Just my $0.05.. 👍😉
post #278 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

^^ Ok you're confusing me now smile.gif

I have a 1600 and all I see in the settings is a sub trim adjustment. Where is the LFE trim?

Thanks
What speakers and sub are you using? Also what is the sub volume set to on the sub and the AVR?
post #279 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

What speakers and sub are you using? Also what is the sub volume set to on the sub and the AVR?

I'm not having any issues with my setup. I was just having a discussion about what LFE is and is not. That's all.
post #280 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I'm not having any issues with my setup. I was just having a discussion about what LFE is and is not. That's all.

Sorry. I asked the wrong person.
post #281 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by redzuk View Post

whatever is called is irrelevant to me! i just want to be able to control it like on my 645!

What speakers and sub are you using? Also what is the sub volume set to on the sub and the AVR?
post #282 of 673
Cerwin Vega VS12's and paradigm servo 15 x 2.
The servos are set at about 12 on the x30 control and sound fine with movies but music at low volume has too much bass. It's fine when turned up but at 'normal' levels is overpowering..

Set to -5 on manual setup
post #283 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by redzuk View Post

Cerwin Vega VS12's and paradigm servo 15 x 2.
The servos are set at about 12 on the x30 control and sound fine with movies but music at low volume has too much bass. It's fine when turned up but at 'normal' levels is overpowering..

Set to -5 on manual setup

The first thing I would do is set the speakers to small and cross at 80hz. Personally I never liked double bass settings. I would think your speakers and subs would be overpowering with double bass. You can also experiment with various cross over settings for the sub. Start with 80, then 60 etc.
Have you run EZ set. I am not a big proponent of RC. However I have been very satisfied using it on my AVR1700.
Your subs and/or mains also may be in a less than ideal location.
I have listed some of the simplest ways to start.
It would be highly unlikely that you have an LFE problem. Just a plain old bass problem.
Please update us if you try any of this.
post #284 of 673
Hey all,

Owned a few HK receivers over the years, checking out the 3700. Don't mean to hijack, just a tangent - wondering if anyone could share some wisdom on this unit as compared to the Yamaha RX-A1030? Still learning what the main variables are, at least on paper - are the ES9006 SABRE DAC and the Yamaha's ability for 192 kHz/24-bit FLAC playback both functions worth seeking out? I'm mostly interested in a receiver for home theater, but music is important as well. I currently own a set of Paradigm Cinema 330's.

Thanks!
Edited by Ashii - 11/12/13 at 2:07pm
post #285 of 673
I cannot be much help on the 3700, but I do own an AVR 2600 and have run this with the Paradigm Reference Mellenia 200's and 20 center/rears. I have always owned HK equipment and Paradigm speakers. The two sound great together. I have demo'd some Yamaha/Aventage Receivers and they sound a bit harsh to me. I believe all of the later Harman Receivers have a Cirus Logic DAC just as they have for years. These attribute to the great sound. The only think that you will not be able to do is have HDMI Standby-Passthru capability with any of the HK Receivers. The only Receiver that has come close for me is the Pioneer Elite SC63. The sound to me is closer to the Harman Sound than anything I have tried during the past year. I recently purchased the SC63 to replace the HK2600 only because HDMI Standby Passthru is needed in my home theatre setup. That is the only reason I did not purchase a 3700. The 2600 will find a new home elsewhere in the house. This is just my opinion, but I hope it is helpful.
post #286 of 673
i finally jumped onboard! 2700 ordered....
post #287 of 673
during the waiting time before receiving it i'm trying to brief myself going thru the manual, getting confused!

i'll pick one question to start with... for instance setting up the 'bluray source' set up thru hdmi 1 input.
can i set up 3 different configurations for this one hdmi source/input?

one config for playing bluray movie. (already assigned to hdmi 1)
one config for 3D playback. (by also assigning say the A 'red' button to connection hdmi 1)
one config for music bluray concerts or SACDs. (by also assigning the B 'green' button to connection hdmi 1)

sorry so new to all this it's a bit intimidating and confusing. i think it can but not sure exactly how? ...manual page 28 sort of explains it. assigning buttons page 18.

thanks!
Edited by ljmart - 11/16/13 at 11:52pm
post #288 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

during the waiting time before receiving it i'm trying to brief myself going thru the manual, getting confused!

i'll pick one question to start with... for instance setting up the 'bluray source' set up thru hdmi 1 input.
can i set up 3 different configurations for this one hdmi source/input?

one config for playing bluray movie. (already assigned to hdmi 1)
one config for 3D playback. (by also assigning say the A 'red' button to connection hdmi 1)
one config for music bluray concerts or SACDs. (by also assigning the B 'green' button to connection hdmi 1)

sorry so new to all this it's a bit intimidating and confusing. i think it can but not sure exactly how? ...manual page 28 sort of explains it. assigning buttons page 18.

thanks!

Precisely, think of those as A/V profiles which consist from video input, audio input and some personalized settings.
post #289 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by andriy View Post


Precisely, think of those as A/V profiles which consist from video input, audio input and some personalized settings.

great thank you. glad to know i'm on the right track!
post #290 of 673

Hello "fellow" HKers!

 

I am a former HKer - slowly trying to get back into flock!

 

My last HK was the AVR 7200 - and it is still kicking!

 

I absolutely LOVE the HK sound, but went straying toward the reference Pioneer Elites...

 

I have to say that the Pioneer Elites do not have the same "warm" sound as the HKs do - and I want back!:)

 

Now the top of the line HK AVR is the 3700...?

 

Is that going to be comparable to my 7200...?

 

And what is the "matching" HK blu ray player nowadays?

 

Thanks for all of your help!

post #291 of 673

Hmmm... I am not finding the matching HK blu-ray player...

 

Please don't tell me HK is still doing this...!

post #292 of 673
You seem to be in the same boat as me HDTVAV. I owned an HK 254 but had to say goodbye to it as my main piece of equipment when I bought a 3D projector. I bought a Pioneer Elite VSX 53 which I like, but the sound is not as smooth as my old receiver. I too am considering a 3700, but I read that the new HKs don't handle 3D well with long HDMI cables. Does anyone else find this to be the case with the 3700?
post #293 of 673

And according to what I can find, HK hasn't put put a new blu ray player in the US since 2008...?

 

And has put out no component 3D blu ray players in the US...?

 

PLEASE don't tell me HK is still doing this?!

 

This is one of the main reasons I left them!!!

post #294 of 673
They did put out the BDP1 blu ray player a few years ago. They were selling these on clearance at Harmanaudio.com. They cost over $400.00. They were top quality i hear.
post #295 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmon Fan View Post

They did put out the BDP1 blu ray player a few years ago. They were selling these on clearance at Harmanaudio.com. They cost over $400.00. They were top quality i hear.

 

That was in 2008 when the BDP1 came out - almost 7 years ago now...

 

Every other manufacturer has come out with newer blu ray players by now, and several of them - and in 3D...

post #296 of 673
The BDP1 was sourced from TCL...
Since HK must out-source there is not enough room for any $ margin when the average sell price is <$99....

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
post #297 of 673

Does the room correction software work correctly on the 3700?

 

I know there was a problem on the 1700 of it not working...

post #298 of 673
now a proud owner of the 3700!!! the 2700 was on back order, so for almost the same price i jumped up to the 3700. so glad it worked out that way. the lighted remote and wireless was well worth it! the only sad part is it is just sitting there all lonely... speakers are on order and should have them in a week or so. killin me not to know how good this is going to sound! going to be a very long week......
post #299 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buyshop View Post

Please, No one uses the 2 hdmi out here ?
Or want to use in the future?


Unfortunetely the Harman kardon's assistence , and user care,  is very bad !
The person who answered me doesn't know anything about the audio on hdmi out.


I'm thinking later to change my receiver because of this.

In all models,  when you plug an hdmi out cable to your tv you get the audio from TV AND from receiver simoutaneously , right ?
If you don't like that , you could:
1- disable audio from tv speakers
2- put tv voume on 0
3- mute the tv

right ?

well, al these models i told, have exactly the same thing written at owner's guide about the option on menu (not sure only the oldest models avr 154 254 and 354):
If you go to the option AUDIO HDMI TO TV and turn it ON , the you can hear ONLY the audio from TV speakers.
If you go to the option AUDIO HDMI TO TV and turn it OFF , then you have BOTH audios simoutaneously. From receiver AND from TV.

Well , the new AVR3700 is THE ONLY MODEL that have 2 hdmi out , and the only model that don't work like all the receivers.

on avr3700 it work like this:
HDMI OUT TO TV: ON   - you have ONLY sound from tv speakers
HDMI OUT TO TV: OFF  - you have ONLY sound from receiver

Now let's use the brain, and think about:On old models (avr 154 254 354 1600 1650 2600 2650 3600 3650)
If you buy a receiver because of 2 hdmi outputs, that's because  you probably (99,99% of users) want to do this at home:

1- A projector and a tv at the same room.
In this case you use the default setting: HDMI OUT TO TV: OFF.
you only have to mute, disable, or turn tv volume to zero to if you don't want tv speakers.

My home il like second option: (I could do this with harman avr 3650)
2- 1 TV + receiver in room 1     , 1 TV in room 2
In this case, when you use only TV in room 2 , you only have to mute the receiver at room 1, and use audio from tv spearkers that's right?
You also can watch tv simoutaneously in room 1 and room 2  too. 



BUT,
The way avr3700 works, EVERYTIME i change place where i am watching tv, i  have to input 12 remote commands to change HDMI OUT TO TV option.  OFF to watch at room1 , and ON to watch at room 2.

Remember that like avr3700 works , IT'S IMPOSSIBLE to watch simoutaneously tv on room 1 and room 2 , because you have to choose where to get audio. From tv OR receiver.  It's impossible to have simoutaneously audio.
So , you CAN'T watch tv at room1 and room2 at same time.



Now I ask:

WHY THE HELL harman did this ?
Is the only receiver working like this, and now working like this with 2 HDMI OUTPUTS!
I thing it's a serious issue with these new models, and they don't want to assume that.


anyone have a opinion about this ?
Thanks

I think the 2nd HDMI intended for multi-zone functionality.
post #300 of 673
in preparation for when my speakers get here tuesday, i have a question about setting them up. since i will only have 3 to start with, (adding surrounds after xmas, and no subwoofer) i can't use ez set up. so, would i just plug in these numbers (frequency response and distance) and i'm basically all set? do i use 'large' for LR and 'small' for center?

emp tek towers.... http://emptek.com/e55ti.php

front right distance to seat....... 10 feet

front left distance to seat.......... (almost) 9 feet

• Recommended Power: 50-200 Watts
• Impedance: 6 Ohms
• Frequency Response: 40Hz-20kHz ±3dB
• Crossover Frequencies: 120 Hz / 3,000 Hz
• Sensitivity: 88dB (2.83V@1m)


center
distance to seat....... 9 feet

• Recommended Power: 50-120 Watts
• Impedance: 6 Ohms
• Frequency Response: 60Hz-20kHz ±3dB
• Crossover Frequency: 3,000 Hz
• Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V@1m)

also, without a SPL meter i'm not sure how i'll be able to adjust 'level' to 75 dB? the manual says the test tones can be adjusted 'by ear,' is that possible to get close enough until i get the surrounds and can run ez? thanks!
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