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? Best Sub For $3000 a pair, HSU VT 15,Rym FV15 HP, SVS PB 13 ultra - Page 2

post #31 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So then the OP would be looking at over $3500+ right?

Jeff may cut a little break with purchase of two. ring him up.
post #32 of 75
Beeman,

I'll challenge you, if you are suggesting the caps lack fidelity for the sake of volume. I'll point to the multiple (~half dozen) subwoofer meets the caps have participated in as my evidence. The volume is most typically level matched well below reference for the audition and then cut loose for playtime. The caps have placed first or second in all but one meet, and in the only meet I'm aware of that they didn't there were 3 JTR products and Seatons line as well and effectively the top four players by collective blind vote (including the caps) were all within about ~ 3% by averaged vote.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1367811/subwoofer-shootout-subwoofer-roundup-url-lists/0_20

On the volume aspect (buying more than you need) your point may have merit depending on room and taste, but in my experience you typically cannot buy too much sub. The more sub capability you buy, the cleaner and more distortion free your sound as you approach reference. Hit a meet sometime and decide for yourself. There is one coming up in Pennsylvania in April. There will be eight 18s on display in a dual opposed setup. overkill? yes, but despite the use of inexpensive drivers it will sound absolutely incredible --- why? because the system will have so much headroom capability over the volume levels being auditioned.

headroom, even if unused, is a great thing.
post #33 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm not bagging on anybody in particular. The above triggered my thought.
In general, many like to talk about output as if that's the ultimate goal. This as opposed to fidelity to THX reference.
"Why I can get 120dB out of my system."
"That's no system, I can get 140dB out of mine with headroom to spare."
"Why my system is so loud, while cranking the blues, as they're flying overhead, jet engines bow their head in respect."
I know this is heresy to post this point but in my opinion, anything above THX reference, qualifies as bragging rights. If that's what the person is all about, listening at post THX standards, that's fine. But is that what we're all suppose to be trying to achieve or is it about THX reference levels and enjoying the movie in front of us? If someone wants to "Rock the Casbah," they're welcome to but they'd be intellectually honest if they were to state, that's what their personal goal was in their advice as opposed to recommendations that meet a standard for the purpose of enjoying a movie sound track as the mix-master intended..
(Just saying)
-

What are you talking about? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get reference level bass down to single digits let alone 20 hz? The subs you suggest have no chance of that unless the room is very, very tiny.
post #34 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

What are you talking about? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get reference level bass down to single digits let alone 20 hz? The subs you suggest have no chance of that unless the room is very, very tiny.

I'm talking about what it is I posted, THX Reference when I posted: "This as opposed to fidelity to THX reference." I was very specific what it was I referring to as the post of mine you quoted has no mention of any particular subs. ??? If one looks at what I posted in the context of the words I used, the meaning will be perfectly clear. I meant absolutely nothing beyond the meaning of the words I used in my post.
post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Beeman,
I'll challenge you, if you are suggesting the caps lack fidelity for the sake of volume.

Please reread what I posted. There was zero challenge to the overall fidelity of "Caps." This is what I posted regarding the use of the word fidelity:

"This as opposed to fidelity to THX reference."

My use of the word "fidelity" was directly tied to "THX reference" and nothing more.

"Fidelity"

"1. Faithfulness to obligations, duties, or observances."

In this case, the use of the word "fidelity" has absolutely nothing to do with the sonic reproductive capabilities of the JTR Captivators.

As to GTG meets, thanks for the offer but I'm buried in the Sierra Mountains on the West Coast. The nearest big city is an hour and a half away from our location. In California, the nearest big cities to us are Sacramento to the South and Redding to the North. I'd be surprised to find a decent subwoofer within a hundred miles of our location. I have no doubt the Caps can do what you suggest. Please reread my comment and you'll see the post had absolutely nothing to do with JTR Captivator subwoofers.

As to unused headroom, my opinion, any unused headroom above THX reference, is nothing more than bragging rights which is what my post states when I post:

"I know this is heresy to post this point but in my opinion, anything above THX reference, qualifies as bragging rights."

And as I prefaced my comment regarding, what I was about to post, my comments will be seen as heresy. But I also posted in all sincerity:

"If that's what the person is all about, listening at post THX standards, that's fine."

My point, which I was clear about, folks need to be honest about what much of the brouhaha is all about, bragging rights as opposed to fidelity to THX standards. I doubt a single person who, in sonic ignorance, comes to this forum and asks questions regarding subwoofer recommendations is even remotely interested in exceeding THX reference. All they're wanting is some clean sound to compliment their speakers so they can sit down with a bag of microwave popcorn and enjoy an evening at home with some killer movie sound...............and the next thing you know, folks are touting raising the roof.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/9/13 at 7:46am
post #36 of 75
Thread Starter 
Thanks BeeMan48,

You helped me make my point.

I am not interested in getting double or triple the output when I only need the best sound quality with the correct size specs that will give me plenty enough output for my HT room. My room is 22x16 and my current dual 10 year old Ported Infinity Subs shake the room big time at 80% volume with 500 watts each. Will I improve the Sound if I get Subs that will shake the room at 40% volume, no. Would those Subs be impressive, not for my room. It's like ordering a 40 ounce steak at $50 at one of the top Restaurants when you at best will only eat 18 ounces of it. When you can order a $40 (20) ounce steak from another top Restaurant that uses a certain high quality blend of spices that make the steak taste better everytime you compare the two of them.

More is not always More guys, its not. There are so many examples of this. People often buy more than what they need and often sacrafice quality for getting more quantity/power/volume/output etc.

In my opinion Sound Quality is the most impressive factor in an HT system and that especially holds true for Music but also Movies too. I guarantee that you can still shake your room and impress the hell out of people with the highest quality sounding Sub that has the correct size specs for your room. So that is why I focus on the best Sound Qaulity for my budget.

I will always take Sound Quality over more output of less quality any day. And if two units have the same Sound quality, it does not make sense to buy that 40 ounce steak and pay more when you will never eat more than 18 ounces.

I am not saying that my purchasing criteria is the best and works for everyone. I am saying that it makes the most sense to me and works best for me.

Thanks

AK
post #37 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by akast27 View Post

Thanks BeeMan48,

You helped me make my point.

.....biggrin.gif

...
post #38 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by akast27 View Post

Thanks BeeMan48,
You helped me make my point.
I am not interested in getting double or triple the output when I only need the best sound quality with the correct size specs that will give me plenty enough output for my HT room. My room is 22x16 and my current dual 10 year old Ported Infinity Subs shake the room big time at 80% volume with 500 watts each. Will I improve the Sound if I get Subs that will shake the room at 40% volume, no. Would those Subs be impressive, not for my room. It's like ordering a 40 ounce steak at $50 at one of the top Restaurants when you at best will only eat 18 ounces of it. When you can order a $40 (20) ounce steak from another top Restaurant that uses a certain high quality blend of spices that make the steak taste better everytime you compare the two of them.
More is not always More guys, its not. There are so many examples of this. People often buy more than what they need and often sacrafice quality for getting more quantity/power/volume/output etc.
In my opinion Sound Quality is the most impressive factor in an HT system and that especially holds true for Music but also Movies too. I guarantee that you can still shake your room and impress the hell out of people with the highest quality sounding Sub that has the correct size specs for your room. So that is why I focus on the best Sound Qaulity for my budget.
I will always take Sound Quality over more output of less quality any day. And if two units have the same Sound quality, it does not make sense to buy that 40 ounce steak and pay more when you will never eat more than 18 ounces.
I am not saying that my purchasing criteria is the best and works for everyone. I am saying that it makes the most sense to me and works best for me.
Thanks
AK

Cool, gotcha. Looks like you will be very happy, and I agree there is no reason to spend more than you need to! smile.gif Other than a DIY sub I haven't heard a sub that has the sound quality I like as much as the Submersive, but I haven't heard Rhythmic (sp?). The Epik Empire is very close. BTW my priority is music and I usually listen between 80 and 85 db's.
post #39 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

My point, which I was clear about, folks need to be honest about what much of the brouhaha is all about, bragging rights as opposed to fidelity to THX standards. I doubt a single person who, in sonic ignorance, comes to this forum and asks questions regarding subwoofer recommendations is even remotely interested in exceeding THX reference. All they're wanting is some clean sound to compliment their speakers so they can sit down with a bag of microwave popcorn and enjoy an evening at home with some killer movie sound...............and the next thing you know, folks are touting raising the roof.
-

I'm not bragging or or bruhahaing about anything. What are THX standards (I'm asking because I'm really not sure). Is it reference volume down to 20 hz?
post #40 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm not bagging on anybody in particular. The above triggered my thought.
In general, many like to talk about output as if that's the ultimate goal. This as opposed to fidelity to THX reference.
"Why I can get 120dB out of my system."
"That's no system, I can get 140dB out of mine with headroom to spare."
"Why my system is so loud, while cranking the blues, as they're flying overhead, jet engines bow their head in respect."
-

I've never posted or thought anything like this.

Archaea has recommended all kinds of budget subs to people. The OP had a budget of 3 grand and we gave our suggestions. Sorry.
post #41 of 75
Thread Starter 
Everyone has alot of good points.

I guess I should have been more clearer to say which is the Top 3 sounding Subs in the $1000-$2000 EA price range for Music.

I really don't want to pay more than $1500 per Sub so if a higher price ($1600-$2000) shipped Sub sounds better, it would have to sound significantly better for me to spend more than $1500.

I always stick to my budgets and pay my bills and that keeps me out of trouble and helps me sleep at night.

I appreciate all of the help everyone has given me on this thread. I have learned alot. There are alot of great Subs out there. More than I realized.

Best Regards,

AK
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

What are THX standards (I'm asking because I'm really not sure). Is it reference volume down to 20 hz?

THX reference.

From the sub-category link; "Speakers"

A Mighty Subwoofer

Movies, music and games are featuring more deep bass elements than ever before. To accurately recreate the roar of the jet engine or the sound of a freeway bridge collapsing, THX certification requires bass from all channels, including LFE, be redirected to the subwoofer. For this reason, THX Certified Subwoofers must extend to 20Hz (-6dB) to handle the very highest bass levels with ease.


A bit more on the matter can be found in this article.
post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I've never posted or thought anything like this.

And I never said you did when I posted; "The above triggered my thought." My comment followed Archaea's comment and your comment followed my comment, not the other way around. ???

My comment was a muse, stated as such and was nothing more.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/9/13 at 9:28am
post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by akast27 View Post

Thanks BeeMan48,
You helped me make my point.
I am not interested in getting double or triple the output when I only need the best sound quality with the correct size specs that will give me plenty enough output for my HT room. My room is 22x16 and my current dual 10 year old Ported Infinity Subs shake the room big time at 80% volume with 500 watts each. Will I improve the Sound if I get Subs that will shake the room at 40% volume, no. Would those Subs be impressive, not for my room. It's like ordering a 40 ounce steak at $50 at one of the top Restaurants when you at best will only eat 18 ounces of it. When you can order a $40 (20) ounce steak from another top Restaurant that uses a certain high quality blend of spices that make the steak taste better everytime you compare the two of them.
More is not always More guys, its not. There are so many examples of this. People often buy more than what they need and often sacrafice quality for getting more quantity/power/volume/output etc.
In my opinion Sound Quality is the most impressive factor in an HT system and that especially holds true for Music but also Movies too. I guarantee that you can still shake your room and impress the hell out of people with the highest quality sounding Sub that has the correct size specs for your room. So that is why I focus on the best Sound Qaulity for my budget.
I will always take Sound Quality over more output of less quality any day. And if two units have the same Sound quality, it does not make sense to buy that 40 ounce steak and pay more when you will never eat more than 18 ounces.
I am not saying that my purchasing criteria is the best and works for everyone. I am saying that it makes the most sense to me and works best for me.
Thanks
AK

I still believe for the money and sound quality the FV15HP would be your best bet. Not to mention the cheapest option you've looked at. I would suggest going over to the Rythmik thread and search threw some posts and even post a couple questions about the sound quality. From everything I read the FV15HP is just as good as anything else mentioned in regards to musical sound quality.

Of course I think my PSA XS30 sounds great with music too biggrin.gif
post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I still believe for the money and sound quality the FV15HP would be your best bet. Not to mention the cheapest option you've looked at. I would suggest going over to the Rythmik thread and search threw some posts and even post a couple questions about the sound quality. From everything I read the FV15HP is just as good as anything else mentioned in regards to musical sound quality.
Of course I think my PSA XS30 sounds great with music too biggrin.gif

Are you trying to get banished from the Power Sound thread?
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I still believe for the money and sound quality the FV15HP would be your best bet. Not to mention the cheapest option you've looked at. I would suggest going over to the Rythmik thread and search threw some posts and even post a couple questions about the sound quality. From everything I read the FV15HP is just as good as anything else mentioned in regards to musical sound quality.
Of course I think my PSA XS30 sounds great with music too biggrin.gif

From everything I've read that's what I've concluded. Would be nice if there were more info on the XS30.
post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

And I never said you did when I posted; "The above triggered my thought." My comment followed Archaea's comment and your comment followed my comment, not the other way around. ???
My comment was a muse, stated as such and was nothing more.
-

Ok, understood.
post #48 of 75
I would say Carp and Archaea have more experience with subs than anyone in this thread and they gave their opinions based on your budget. Now if you want to take that advise is up to you, but I think you could be happy with any of the subs mentioned in this thread, but no one can tell you which one is the best for you, only you can tell yourself that as everyone's listening preferences are different.
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Okay, you still paid $225 more for a sub that really has no performance advantage over the FV15HP. That's my whole point, and if someone such as myself didn't want a piano finish because its going in a theater and would reflect a lot of light they would be saving a LOT more then $225 per sub for Canadian customers.

$225 difference is not $600....that was my point. Glad you were made aware of that. rolleyes.gif

For that small difference, brand name, reviews and local availability are what swayed me to SVS.

And you think the gloss black reflects a lot of light? Especially in a darkened room?
I have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about.
post #50 of 75
I've heard the subM, rythmik e15, ae p1512, lms18 on lab clone in a 4500cu room that is open to 8000cu room. My conclusion is that you won't be dissatisfied with dual rhythmic in all aspect. Of course all the other listed has way more output but is can see myself very happy with dual rhythmic output. Since my room is so large dual is a must. What ever you buy, minimal of 2 is best for fr.
post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

$225 difference is not $600....that was my point. Glad you were made aware of that. rolleyes.gif

For that small difference, brand name, reviews and local availability are what swayed me to SVS.

And you think the gloss black reflects a lot of light? Especially in a darkened room?
I have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about.

I used a gloss black subwoofer in a theater room with a projector once.. To quote the raven "nevermore".... Not a good mix...
post #52 of 75

Quote:

"Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The volume is most typically level matched well below reference for the audition and then cut loose for playtime."
 
 
In your experience, what Main volume do you typically play for these demos? Do the subs run hot?

 


On the volume aspect (buying more than you need) your point may have merit depending on room and taste, but in my experience you typically cannot buy too much sub. The more sub capability you buy, the cleaner and more distortion free your sound as you approach reference. Hit a meet sometime and decide for yourself. There is one coming up in Pennsylvania in April. There will be eight 18s on display in a dual opposed setup. overkill? yes, but despite the use of inexpensive drivers it will sound absolutely incredible --- why? because the system will have so much headroom capability over the volume levels being auditioned.

headroom, even if unused, is a great thing.

+1

 

I said this in the JTR thread. In my mind, the most dominant sound characteristic is clean, undistorted output. That will win out over extension and frequency response (within reason) if the output limited sub compresses at all during playback. Compression may not necessarily be audible, but at higher volumes will just start to sound different compared to a sub that doesn't compress. Depending on the room size, amp power, etc., some subs may start to show compression at some frequencies even at non-reference volumes.

 

Having said that, if you don't listen to the subs at high volume or have a lot of room gain (small room, etc) to where the subs aren't compressing at that volume, the it becomes a level playing field for subs that are output monsters. From what I've read about the OPs preference, this is probably the case.

 

For your preference, I would go sealed. Not because sealed is 'better' for music as compared to ported, but because the natural frequency response of sealed lends itself to a 'tighter/cleaner' sound as the lower frequencies have a gradual slope compare to ported. This is likely the cause of the perception of 'tighter/cleaner', because the upper bass is more pronounced. Where as ported stays fairly flat until tune (which may be perceived as 'boomier' when compared to the sealed natural response). Now, if you have an EQ system so that you can EQ the frequency responses so that they are close to identical, then I think it would be hard to tell a difference between the two....especially for music.

post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

$225 difference is not $600....that was my point. Glad you were made aware of that. rolleyes.gif

For that small difference, brand name, reviews and local availability are what swayed me to SVS.

And you think the gloss black reflects a lot of light? Especially in a darkened room?
I have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about.

Haha you're hilarious, maybe you haven't watched a movie in a properly set up theater room with NO reflective surfaces. I'm thinking you don't know what you're talking about.rolleyes.gif

Before I upgraded to my XS30s I had dual Polk Audio DSWmicroPRO3000 with a piano finish. I guess I was just imagining the reflection from it onto my front screen. that's great you feel the price difference is small but it still doesn't change the fact the you paid more for a sub the has the same performance as a FV15HP. Which I might add that I've never said that the PB13-Ultra is a bad sub. Just simply pointed out the FV15HP has basically the same output for less money. and if the OP lives in the US and wasn't going to get a piano finish its $600.
Edited by jbrown15 - 1/9/13 at 7:36pm
post #54 of 75
Thread Starter 
I come from a big Music Family. Everyone in my Family plays Muliple instruments and have been in many Bands and still play in Bands today for the fun of it.

I love to listen to Music loud. I think I know what loud Music is since it doesn't get much Louder than playing on a stage with 20 Huge speakers on each side in front of 14,000 people.

When I turn my new Dennon 4520 up to 80% in my HT room, it is Loud. I am sure there are many people on this site that have Louder systems but I still want to hear the TV and people talk to me 10 years from now. How much louder do you really need to go? In ten years I really want to hear the sub not be death and just feel the room shake. The only Speakers that I have that don't sound very clean are my subs when they are at 80% so that is why I am upgrading them.

However, I usually listen to my system at 70-75% volume and at 50% when my Wife and kids are in the room. Anything higher than 50% is considered to loud for my Family.

My subs are 10 years old and I have recently upgraded all my other gear so now it is time for the subs.

I know that Mark makes great Subs and I am sure that the Caps are great too, but they are more output then what I need.

I am leanning towards Dual Rym FV15HP's. Every review I have read which is at least 30, says they sound great for Music and Sound very good for Movies.

They also seem to be the Favorite Sub on this site, there must be a reason, high quality and value is hard to beat. Based on their specs, they are more than enough output for my 22x16 room and are the best Sounding Sub for Music/Movies for >=$3000 a pair..

I also have not heard anyone say that any of the other sub Sounds better than the FV15HP for Music. Everytime people on this site compare the FV15HP to other Subs they say the other Subs have much more output.

I know a great deal about output and what is required to fill very large rooms and small outdoor stadiums.
I can tell you that Dual FV15HP have some serious output for a 22x16 room. Plenty enough output. Many of you know the specs and know this but few are saying it.

Some of the recommendations have been to over buy your subs, some feel that you should have more than you need just in case, some say it will sound better with higher output subs played at a lower volume. Everyone has their own opinion but It makes no sense for me to purchase more output then what I need in my room. I am focused on the best Sound I can buy for my budget ($3,000-$4,000 a pair) with the proper specs to fill the room with high quality sound. Many of the FV15HP owners I have chated with say that they are not experiencing the hot AMP problem. That issue is well over played on this site. I found out that there was only one case reported where that happened and it was at a Sub Shoot Out under intense pressure and more pressure then what most people will put on a Sub .

Thanks for everyones help with my decision.

I will report back to let everyone know how the FV15HP sounds.

AK
post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by akast27 View Post

The only Speakers that I have that don't sound very clean are my subs when they are at 80% so that is why I am upgrading them.

---snip---

I am focused on the best Sound I can buy for my budget ($3,000-$4,000 a pair) with the proper specs to fill the room with high quality sound.

An improperly placed/balanced subwoofer system will kill lower and mid-range bass. If you're already onto what I'm posting below, forgive me. Do you have experience with room analyzers? Are you familiar with AVR provided bass management and room analyzers and if so which one are you currently using?

If not, based on your above, it's time to introduce you to the wonderful world of tuning you system to the rooms acoustics. The short version, sound waves bounce all over the room and run into each other, cancelling each other out, creating sound voids, nulls or nodes. And at other times, the waves reinforce each other creating modes where a particular frequency is increased and sonically dominate it's neighbors. Really screws up a good music score that way. Subwoofers, due to the length of the waves are very susceptible to the above described sonic infighting, hence the need to tune a room to control all this sonic infighting. The best way to start is to get some recording gear and a real time room analyzer (RTA) so you can see graphed on your computer what's happening with the sound waves in your room. And then you can go to work taming these little beasties that are uncooperatively flying all over the room; acoustics.

The system that's the least intellectually painful is the "OmniMic" system. I'd say the one that's the most intellectually challenging and not necessarily the least expensive is the downloaded freeware program; REW. The downside of REW is, you have to hand select and purchase all necessary gear and take the time to learn to use the program which can take a week or more. Yikes! eek.gif For the most part, REW is the forum standard when everybody is comparing graphs of their system room sweeps.

When a subwoofer system is dialed in, even if the subs are not the best quality, the improved clarity of sound is "VERY" noticeable or pronounced to an ear sensitive to sonic differences. Yes, the results are well worth the additional efforts. Me? I'm just your typical nobody who listens to the efforts of music makers like you and your family. Somebody has to populate the audience and I willingly volunteer for the task. tongue.gif

If you're not already onto what I posted above, I hope the above is found insightful and helpful towards getting you the type of sound you're wanting.

(ya gotta have a thing if you want that zing)

Here's a crash course regarding my above.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/10/13 at 4:54am
post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Haha you're hilarious, maybe you haven't watched a movie in a properly set up theater room with NO reflective surfaces. I'm thinking you don't know what you're talking about.rolleyes.gif

Before I upgraded to my XS30s I had dual Polk Audio DSWmicroPRO3000 with a piano finish. I guess I was just imagining the reflection from it onto my front screen. that's great you feel the price difference is small but it still doesn't change the fact the you paid more for a sub the has the same performance as a FV15HP. Which I might add that I've never said that the PB13-Ultra is a bad sub. Just simply pointed out the FV15HP has basically the same output for less money.

Except that the PB13 has a considerably more flexible amplifier section (which to some may be worth something), more options to tune (e.g., a sealed mode), some may consider it an aesthetically better looking unit (or not), may or may not have offered the individual better customer service or the individual may have done his own research and felt that SVS was a better company and/or had more reviews of its products, etc. etc.

Also, in Canada, SVS is the only ID with a distributor here which may have factored into his decision (slightly easier to ship things without having to cross borders, if an amp or driver goes awry some US ID's are not going to foot the brokerage/duty costs aspect of the shipping parts back and forth while he will likely have that option with Sonicboom, and it typically is a longer ship cycle).

So saying "I don't care if you think the price difference is small but it doesn't change the fact that you paid more for a sub that has the same performance as the FV15HP", or telling someone else that gloss black is not a good purchase for a "properly setup theater room" (whatever that is) with a rolleyes.gif, are plain and simply ignorant comments. There are numerous reasons other than "output" or "performance" for someone to select one subwoofer over another.
post #57 of 75
It's all fine and dandy to back and forth about what sub is better, you can argue that till doomsday. Nobody has backed it up with graphs. I don't mean some third party stuff. Lets see your in room extention at a decent lvl at your LP (not overly smoothed).
Subjective is good but it needs to tempered with objective graphs. So,, who has something to help backup their claims. smile.gif
post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

So,, who has something to help backup their claims. smile.gif

PSA XS30



Rythmik, FV15HP (see "Basic Response")
post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

So,, who has something to help backup their claims. smile.gif

PSA XS30



Rythmik, FV15HP (see "Basic Response")

Not somebody elses graphs. wink.gif
post #60 of 75
^^^^

The original post you edited was looking for personal in room measurements, not 3rd party graphs.

Edit - Sputter1 beat me to it.
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