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? Best Sub For $3000 a pair, HSU VT 15,Rym FV15 HP, SVS PB 13 ultra - Page 3

post #61 of 75
I've had the svs ultra (pre sledge) and a FW sub (i forget the model) in the same room as my Hsu 15Hs. sadly we couldn't measure them that day. It was interesting though, you all might be surprised just how similar they sound (non scientific) at a reasonable level ie no limits where hit.

P.S. I should add my room is 4500^3
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Not somebody elses graphs. wink.gif

Sorry, thought you were simply wanting graphs in general that lent support to a particular sub's capabilities.
post #63 of 75
do you like an 14.4 volt electric drill or an 18 volt?
both will drive a screw

do you like a v6 truck or a v8 hemi?
both will haul a load

If the price was double for each of these options I'd choose the first. If the price was 10% or 20% more I'd pick the second. That's my take on this matter after attending 10 full scale avsforum speaker/subwoofer meets in the last two years and hearing literally multiple dozens of subs. IMO, my analogy parallels the subwoofer choice in this instance between the Rythmik pair and a pair of passive Caps. The quality isn't necessarily different, but the capability is. Will you use the capability everytime? no perhaps not, but it's there when you want it.


Read the 2012 blind subwoofer meet linked in my sig and notice that the top four places all finished within about ~3% of each other in total collective averaged blind vote score. Those were the three JTR entries and the 1 Seaton entry. Then the next 'tier' of subs all scored more in line with each other and that included the HSU VTF15H, the CHT18.1, and the MFW-15 turbo. Why were there two clear tiers of scores? Because one group was loafing at the meets auditioned volume of -6, and the other group was starting to experience compression, and while they weren't necessarily making bad sounds left and right - dynamics were limited and compression was noticed by the 9 blind voters. The Ryhmik falls in the middle of these two tiers, and for a smaller room, or someone who doesn't want to push their subs on occassion it's a great choice. I wish we would have had one for the blind meet. I truly do like the FV15HP and think it's a great product. It's just hard for me to recommend it over two passive caps that would cost about 10% to 20% more in total, unless space, asthetics, or the use of a rack mount amp is a problem.
post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

do you like an 14.4 volt electric drill or an 18 volt?
both will drive a screw

do you like a v6 truck or a v8 hemi?
both will haul a load
.

Well my truck has more hp than my porshe. So that isn't very telling.wink.gif Both have four wheels and go from A to B. Depends on your need for higher limits,,, errm something like that. Other than that I got nothing. lol

I'm just saying i'm not seeing a metric here for measuring other than the most vocal wins. Not the best way to decide. imho.wink.gif
post #65 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post


So saying "I don't care if you think the price difference is small but it doesn't change the fact that you paid more for a sub that has the same performance as the FV15HP", or telling someone else that gloss black is not a good purchase for a "properly setup theater room" (whatever that is) with a rolleyes.gif, are plain and simply ignorant comments. There are numerous reasons other than "output" or "performance" for someone to select one subwoofer over another.

Sorry I don't see anywhere in my post where I said "I don't care if you think the price difference is small" and once again I fail to see where I told him a gloss black is not a good purchase?

He said the fact that I think gloss black reflects a lot of lights shows that I don't know what I'm talking about. When in fact I've had piano finished subs in my theater room and they did reflect light onto my screen and it was noticeably compared to my new subs. All one would have to do is look at the picture in Yosh70's profile pic and see the perfect reflection on the top of his PB13-Ultra, so please stop with your ignorant comments rolleyes.gif

I've had piano finished subs in "my" theater room which has very little reflective surfaces in it and is basically a bat cave. I think I'm allowed to have an opinion on how much light they reflected in my room.
Edited by jbrown15 - 1/10/13 at 3:52pm
post #66 of 75
It's also worth pointing out I haven't heard anything from the OP suggesting he lives in Canada, which lead me to believe he probably lived in the US where once again there is a fair bit of price difference between the PB13-Ultra and the FV15HP. And seeing how the title of the thread is "Best Sub for $3000 a pair" it's hard to argue with dual FV15HPs. The OP made a comment that he would be willing to go to $2000 per sub "if" the subs sounded that much better. I think you'd have a very hard time find more then one or two people saying that without a doubt a PB13-Ultra sounds better. Once I again I have never said the Ultra is a bad sub.
post #67 of 75
Good to still see subjectivism, misuse of statistics, and some power of authority, etc.... is still on the forum after being away over a month smile.gif.

I would like to add to it. biggrin.gif

Andrew Jones - "You have a hierarchy: a mathematician, a physicist (which is a failed mathematician), and an engineer (which is a failed physicist)."

Since I set my crossovers using math, I therefore am at top and my opinion (which is fact) should matter the most.

All kidding aside, if the OP prefers amplified music (mic'd drum, heavy compression on vocals and guitars) than the JTR Caps would most likely suit him. If he prefers the instruments natural acoustics and also tracks with ambience, than the FV15HP would probably suit the OP's preferences better. This is without certainty though. I have only heard the sealed Rythmiks (including duals in some) so I can't say how my brain would interpret the ported version.
post #68 of 75
Thread Starter 
Archaea,

People on this site seem to think you know what you are talking about and seem to take your recommendations seriously.
Your background shows that you have alot of experience judging subwoofers, you attended alot of Sub Shoot Outs and owned alot of Subwoofers, I took that into consideration when I made my decision.
By the way, I did listen and read everyone's recommendations along with other Website reviews and things posted including Archaea's
recommended list of Subwoofers below:

You say that you heard the FV15 HP and the Caps and you recommend the FV15 HP in my price range.

Subs in red designate models I've heard in person.

Archaea Pricepoint / Recommendation
$100 - Monoprice 12" (discontinued?)
$200 - BIC F12
$300 - Klipsh RW-12D (indicates discontinued price but often available)
$400 - ED A2-300 (ED may be in trouble, use caution if buying from them currently - 8/18/2012)
$500 - Rythmik FV12
$600 - Outlaw LFM1-EX
$700 - HSU VTF-3
$800 - Epik Empire
$1,000- HSU VTF-15H
$1,333 - Rythmik FV15 HP
$1,666 - LMS-5400 + DIY Flat Pack + EP4000 Amp
$2,000 - JTR Captivator (passive) + EP4000 Amp
$2,500 - Seaton Submersive HP
$3,000 - JTR Captivator S2 or JTR Orbit Shifter
Price no object? - to my experience there isn't much value in spending more than $3000 on a subwoofer...

Keep in mind that I also talked with other people who heard both Submersives and the FV15 HP and they raved about both of them. I could not find anyone who said they liked the Submersives better than the FV15 HP for Music but did find some who said they liked the Submersives better for Movies because of the additional power and output. Keep in mind they never said they sounded better, they said they liked the additional power and output and for my room that additional power and output is more than what I need. Once I realized that the Dual FV15 HP's even had more output than what I needed for my 22X16 room I considered other Subs at a lower price range but I did not find any other Sub lower priced with as good Sound Quality as the RYM. In addition, people in the reviews on this site seem to favor overall the FV15 HP and this is true from other sources as well outside of this site. So part of my loigic is that this Forum focuses only on Subs and people overall favor the FV15 HP here. There must be some good reasons why people feel this way and that should say something to everyone in this Forum.

One post said that people are giving their recommendations and people don't listen to them. I have listened to them, otherwise I would have left this site the first day. People on this site know what they are talking about. However, I am looking at several Subs whole body of work and all of the recommedations, not just one. I looked at all Subwoofer reviews I could get my eyes on, not just one. I started out thinking about Mark's subs and almost pulled the trigger until I heard about some other subs and my analysis and evaluation suddenly got much more involved with many more subs to consider. Mark's subs were just a little to much money for me and more output than what I needed. But I think they are Outstanding and have a high Quality look.

People say that the CAPS are great and I am sure they are, they have prooved it many times in many shoot outs that they are one of the best out there, but they are 30" high and look too much like the Gear I use in my Band, no offense, but I wanted a Sub that not only Sounds very impressive but also looks very impressive. The Submersive in Rosenut finish and the RYM (with the Silver Cone in Piano Black) look very impressive to me and most of the reviews I read said the same thing.

When people see my Home Theatre Speakers in person , the BG 520i, BG 220 and my brand new Revel Peforma 3's F208's, they say they look really impressive. In my mind, my new Subs should also look very impressive. I think any Sub over $1k has to look impressive and should sound dam good too . That is just my opinion.

I think I made the best choice for my Budget per Archaea list above. I am confident that I made a really good choice that no one on this site will tear apart. I can't wait to get the FV15 HP and see and hear what people are raving about.

I want to thank all the people who answered my Post. They all were very helpful.

Best Regards,

AK
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Thanks for everyones help with my decision.

I will report back to let everyone know how the FV15HP sounds.

AK

Great decision. Congrats.

post #70 of 75
I think you'll be very happy with your decision.
post #71 of 75
akast27,

You sound as though you made a solid and educated choice. You'll be very happy with your FV15HP. I hope you report back with your feelings on the the product upon your installation and audition!

I do not think the FV15HP gives up anything in sound quality to any sub on the market. As you state, it is also an exceptional looking subwoofer. If you do not plan to use the additional headroom offered by the most expensive models, the Rythmik is a very solid choice!
post #72 of 75
Congrats man! I am sure you are going to love it just as much as I do. I watched Tron the other day and spent just as much staring at the FV15HP as I did at my TV. Haha, I am sick!!
post #73 of 75
Thread Starter 
I asked Brian, the Designer and owner of RYTHMIK and he said that the best Sounding RYM is a finely tuned FV15 HP with one port open. So this version would sound better overall for Music and HT than any Sealed version of the RYM. Also, when you review what owners say, they agree. Some have both or have heard both.

I will be playing Music from the Eagles, Steely Dan, Beatles, Journey, Fleetwood Mac, Big Bad Voodo Daddy Band, James Taylor, Rush, Fleetwood Mac,Foreigner, Chicago, Police, Clapton, Zeppelin and others to test it out.

I also plan on playing this list: to test how the Subs play with the whole system and also have a really good list of Bass Songs below:


1 - Strairway To Heaven (Led Zeppelin)
2 - Bohemian Rhapsody (Queen)
3 - Strawberry Fields Forever (The Beatles)
4 - Comfortably Numb (Pink Floyd)
5 - Hotel California (The Eagles)
6 - Dont Stop Believin (Journey)
7 - Good Vibrations (Beach Boys)
8 - Free Bird (Lynyrd Skynyrd)
9 - Hey Jude (The Beatles)
10 - Mr. Pinstripe (Big Bad Voodoo Daddy)
11 - Steely Dan (Aja)
12 - Smells Like Teen Sprit (Nirvana)
13 - Tears in Heaven (Eric Clapton)
14 - Hurricane (Bob Dylan)
15 - Another Brick In The Wall (Pink Floyd)
16 - House of Rising Sun (The Animals)
17 - Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd)
18 - Heat Wave (Linda Ronstadt)
19 - I Feel Good (James Brown)
20 - Bridge Over Troubled Water (Simon And Garfunkel)
21 - Layla (Derek And The Dominos)
22 - Imagine (John Lennon)
23 - White Room (Cream)
24 - Sweet Child O' Mine (Guns N' Roses)
25 - Billie Jean (Michael Jackson)
26 - Satisfaction (Rolling Stones)
27 - Born to Run (Bruce Springteen)
28 - More Than A Feeling (Boston)
29 - Heartbreak Hotel (Elvis Presley)
30 - Dream On (Aerosmith)

Great Music BassTest For the Subs:

1. Hold Me Know (Thomson Twins, great Bass)
2. Roundabout (Yes)
3. The Real Me (The Who)
4. Frankenstein (Edgar Winter)
5. Phish – Boogie On Reggae Woman [Distortion and Envelope]
6. The Chicken (Brian Bromberg & Jaco)
7. Love Games (Level Best Remix)
8. Give It Away (Red Hot Chili Peppers)
9. Good Times (Chic)
10. With or Without You (U2)
11. Moon Germs (Joe Farrell)
12. I Dont Want Know (Fleetwood mac)
13. How Long (Ace)
14. Hysteria (Muse)
15. Carry On Wayward Son (Kansas)
16. YyZ (Rush)
17. Some Like It Hot (Power Station)
18. Smoke On The Water (Deep Purple)
19. Another One Bites The Dust (Queen)
20. Ladies Of The Road (King Crimson)
21. Burlesque (Family)
22. Canned Heat (by: Canned Heat)
23. Just An Illusion (Imagination)
24. Cream (Prince)
25. Take Me To The River (Talking Heads)
26 Eye in The Sky (Alan Parsons Project)
27. Money (Pink Floyd)
28. Walk On The Wild Side (Lou Reed)
29. Whats Going On (Marvin Gaye)
30. Della brown (Queensryche}
31. Sleepless (Excision & Savvy Xilent Remix)
32. Red Clay (Freddie Hubbard)
33. Birdland (Weatherport)
34. Stand By Me (Ben E. King)
35. In The Midnight Hour (Wilson Picket)
36. Billie Jean ( Michael Jackson)
37. Under Pressure (Queen and David Bowie)
38. 24 Hours At A Time (Marshall Tucker band)
39. Whipping Post (Allman Brothers)
40. Crazy (Icehouse)
41. Never Trust A Woman (Welcome To Little Milton)
42. My Generation (The Who)
43. Taxman (Beatles)
44. The Lemon Song (Zeppelin)
45. Walking On The Moon (Police)
46. Pink Floyd – One of These Days [Delay & Tremolo)
47. Super Freak - (Rick James )
48. Sweet Emotion (Aerosmith)
49. The O’Jays – For the Love of Money [Flanger]
50. Jamiroquai – Deeper Underground [Distortion]
51. Red Hot Chili Peppers – Sir Psycho Sexy (Extremely NSFW )
52. Were An American Band (Grand Funk Railroad)
53. In Need (Grand Funk Railroad)
54. Looking Out (Grand Funk Railroad)
55. IM Your Captain (Grand Funk Railroad)
56. Parliament – P-Funk (Wants to Get Funked Up)
57. Your Love Is King (Sade)
58. Smooth Operator (Sade).
59. Thank You (Sly and The Family Stone)
60. Come Dance With Me (Diana Krall)
post #74 of 75
Thread Starter 
I just spent hours searching for the best Bass songs I could find in ITunes.

I think some of these would be great to use at the Sub Shoot Outs for the Music portion of the Shoot Out.

Many of them Sound great for Bass. Let me know if any of you can add some killer Bass songs to the list.

Best regards,
AK


1. Hold Me Know (Thomson Twins, great Bass)
2. Roundabout (Yes)
3. The Real Me (The Who)
4. Frankenstein (Edgar Winter)
5. Phish – Boogie On Reggae Woman [Distortion and Envelope]
6. The Chicken (Brian Bromberg & Jaco)
7. Love Games (Level Best Remix)
8. Give It Away (Red Hot Chili Peppers)
9. Good Times (Chic)
10. With or Without You (U2)
11. Moon Germs (Joe Farrell)
12. I Dont Want Know (Fleetwood mac)
13. How Long (Ace)
14. Hysteria (Muse)
15. Carry On Wayward Son (Kansas)
16. YyZ (Rush)
17. Some Like It Hot (Power Station)
18. Smoke On The Water (Deep Purple)
19. Another One Bites The Dust (Queen)
20. Ladies Of The Road (King Crimson)
21. Burlesque (Family)
22. Canned Heat (by: Canned Heat)
23. Just An Illusion (Imagination)
24. Cream (Prince)
25. Take Me To The River (Talking Heads)
26 Eye in The Sky (Alan Parsons Project)
27. Money (Pink Floyd)
28. Walk On The Wild Side (Lou Reed)
29. Whats Going On (Marvin Gaye)
30. Della Brown (Queensryche}
31. Sleepless (Excision & Savvy Xilent Remix)
32. Red Clay (Freddie Hubbard)
33. Birdland (Weatherport)
34. Stand By Me (Ben E. King)
35. In The Midnight Hour (Wilson Picket)
36. Billie Jean ( Michael Jackson)
37. Under Pressure (Queen and David Bowie)
38. 24 Hours At A Time (Marshall Tucker band)
39. Whipping Post (Allman Brothers)
40. Crazy (Icehouse)
41. Never Trust A Woman (Welcome To Little Milton)
42. My Generation (The Who)
43. Taxman (Beatles)
44. The Lemon Song (Zeppelin)
45. Walking On The Moon (Police)
46. Pink Floyd – One of These Days [Delay & Tremolo)
47. Super Freak - (Rick James )
48. Sweet Emotion (Aerosmith)
49. The O’Jays – For the Love of Money [Flanger]
50. Jamiroquai – Deeper Underground [Distortion]
51. Red Hot Chili Peppers – Sir Psycho Sexy (Extremely NSFW )
52. Were An American Band (Grand Funk Railroad)
53. In Need (Grand Funk Railroad)
54. Looking Out (Grand Funk Railroad)
55. IM Your Captain (Grand Funk Railroad)
56. Parliament – P-Funk (Wants to Get Funked Up)
57. Your Love Is King (Sade)
58. Smooth Operator (Sade).
59. Thank You (Sly and The Family Stone)
60. Come Dance With Me (Diana Krall)
post #75 of 75
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